[Hit_Apex]

Playing devil's advocate here, but...

I think it is ironic that the same enthusiast base, most of which have a goal to boost the power of the N54 beyond the design and risk parameters established to preserve the buyer's factory warranty, are complaining that BMW has implemented an arguably more conservative boost curve in order to resolve some wastegate rattle complaints. As part of this goal, these customers would prefer that their enhancement devices remain undetectable so that they can then make a warranty claim in the event of failure.

While I think the induced lag directly conflicts with widely distributed marketing material, those of us who choose to mod need to accept going in that we can't/shouldn't rely on someone else to pay for the choices we make independently of the guarantor. For those who must have a guarantor, there's always Dinan. Otherwise, pay to play...

[tyler9595]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Playing devil's advocate here, but...

I think it is ironic that the same enthusiast base, most of which have a goal to boost the power of the N54 beyond the design and risk parameters established to preserve the buyer's factory warranty, are complaining that BMW has implemented an arguably more conservative boost curve in order to resolve some wastegate rattle complaints. As part of this goal, these customers would prefer that their enhancement devices remain undetectable so that they can then make a warranty claim in the event of failure.

While I think the induced lag directly conflicts with widely distributed marketing material, those of us who choose to mod need to accept going in that we can't/shouldn't rely on someone else to pay for the choices we make independently of the guarantor. For those who must have a guarantor, there's always Dinan. Otherwise, pay to play...

I understand your point...and I can only really speak for myself on this. But I just want my original stock level of performance restored back to my car. I've never used any after market tunes on my car...

[Archibald Donnington]

Is 29.2 really this awful? I sure hope not.
aaron

[vinlikesred]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Playing devil's advocate here, but...

I think it is ironic that the same enthusiast base, most of which have a goal to boost the power of the N54 beyond the design and risk parameters established to preserve the buyer's factory warranty, are complaining that BMW has implemented an arguably more conservative boost curve in order to resolve some wastegate rattle complaints. As part of this goal, these customers would prefer that their enhancement devices remain undetectable so that they can then make a warranty claim in the event of failure.

While I think the induced lag directly conflicts with widely distributed marketing material, those of us who choose to mod need to accept going in that we can't/shouldn't rely on someone else to pay for the choices we make independently of the guarantor. For those who must have a guarantor, there's always Dinan. Otherwise, pay to play...

i can only speak for myself. before i noticed this 29.2-induced turbo lag, i had ZERO interest in any mod. after the test-drive last year, the salesman asked me if i'd be interested in dinan flash, and my response was like, are you nuts? the car's got more power than i can possibly handle!

fast forward few months and 2k miles after i picked up my car, i finally noticed the lag. like many, i thought it was just a pigment of my imagination and/or i somehow adapted the power too soon. but with the shifter at d, i would push the pedal half way and the car would barely respond, until the turbo kicks in. it was not the same car i test-drove. so i began to search this forum and found out that my car, manufactured in mar '08, got this 29.2 problem and i'm one of the first to gain the first-hand experience. please take notice that i noticed the lag BEFORE i read anything about 29.2 in this forum, not vice versa.

the reason many seem to be skeptical about this 29.2 problem is because it's so new. it seemed to be affected only the cars equipped with 29.2 and dme 81, which are manufactured after march 08. many would pamper the car, as the owner's manual suggests, in the first 2k miles or so. so many are still in the break-in period, so wouldn't push the car to the limit...

but if bmw doesn't fix this soon, more will notice this problem and many will migrate to infiniti g37 or porsche cayman... there's no way i would've chosen this car over those if the one i test-drove was equipped with 29.2

what you said is valid only to the people who's gonna mod the hell out of TT 335i anywayz or to those who bought 335i only cuz it's the top of the line 3 series (think grocery/soccer mom/pops). but there are many, like myself, who chose 335i for the merit, not the brand, of the car itself - namely lagless turbo and value - yes, i did buy $45k cuz it offered me the best bang for the bucks...

my final advice. if you are buying 335i just cuz it's bmw and it's the best you can afford and/or it's the top of the line 3-series and don't care if it drives like bmw or lexus, be my guest. but if you care about performance, with 29.2, it no longer offers the kind of performance that it used to offer with pre-29.2... you can do a lot better with $45k of your hard-earned money - namely infinity or even lexus...

and if you believe your car drives the same or better than with pre-29.2, you should've seriously considered lexus.

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Playing devil's advocate here, but...

I think it is ironic that the same enthusiast base, most of which have a goal to boost the power of the N54 beyond the design and risk parameters established to preserve the buyer's factory warranty, are complaining that BMW has implemented an arguably more conservative boost curve in order to resolve some wastegate rattle complaints. As part of this goal, these customers would prefer that their enhancement devices remain undetectable so that they can then make a warranty claim in the event of failure.

Your conclusion after these sentences is correct, the rest is not. Most of the people complaining here (including me) have not used a tune yet. Those who have, don't have a reason to complain.

Now, given the absence of a fix by BMW, we're probably facing the shere neccessity to employ a tune to get rid of those problems.

We're just complaining about BMW refusing to downgrade their software (or at least take back some of the "improvements" which lead to the lag problem). The new software seems to have many new features (among them the rattle problem fix), one of which is an anti-tune strategy, that already has been overcome by most tuners.

And if the main reason for not wanting to downgrade is in fact the anti-tuning feature, we'd all be paying the price for a already-failed marketing measure. By that I mean protecting the M3's reign from Vishnu and their likes.

I think it's even more ironic that this will probably lead to actually more people tuning their cars unwantingly, and this might not quite be what BMW intended.

BTW: There is word here that a new Progman update is underway. My car will be back in the shop tomorrow to fix the defective 6FL, I will ask then.

[vinlikesred]

one more question here. is 29.2 released only in the US? or is it world-wide? if the latter, has this become an issue in Germany? can anyone who frequents the user forum in Germany answer this?

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by vinlikesred

the reason many seem to be skeptical about this 29.2 problem is because it's so new. it seemed to be affected only the cars equipped with 29.2 and dme 81, which are manufactured after march 08.

This is not true at all...just read through the thread, the vast majority of us have V80 and 29.2.

Originally Posted by vinlikesred

and if you believe your car drives the same or better than with pre-29.2, you should've seriously considered lexus.

+100000 to that. That is actually why I think the dealers haven't had a ton of complaints. The "average" 335 driver just gets in his (or her) Bimmer and enjoys piddling around to and from work. They will probably never notice the 29.2 crap.

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by Archibald Donnington

Is 29.2 really this awful? I sure hope not.
aaron

It ain't a 13 page thread cuz it's peachy.

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by vinlikesred

one more question here. is 29.2 released only in the US? or is it world-wide? if the latter, has this become an issue in Germany? can anyone who frequents the user forum in Germany answer this?

uh..have you read the thread?? Meyergru has had the most informative and directly relevant posts in the last 4 pages and he repeatedly talks about being next to BMW AG.

meyergru
Private

Drives: E92 335i

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Munich, Germany

[RBBMWE46M3]

i can only speak for myself. before i noticed this 29.2-induced turbo lag, i had ZERO interest in any mod. after the test-drive last year, the salesman asked me if i'd be interested in dinan flash, and my response was like, are you nuts? the car's got more power than i can possibly handle!

fast forward few months and 2k miles after i picked up my car, i finally noticed the lag. like many, i thought it was just a pigment of my imagination and/or i somehow adapted the power too soon. but with the shifter at d, i would push the pedal half way and the car would barely respond, until the turbo kicks in. it was not the same car i test-drove. so i began to search this forum and found out that my car, manufactured in mar '08, got this 29.2 problem and i'm one of the first to gain the first-hand experience. please take notice that i noticed the lag BEFORE i read anything about 29.2 in this forum, not vice versa.

the reason many seem to be skeptical about this 29.2 problem is because it's so new. it seemed to be affected only the cars equipped with 29.2 and dme 81, which are manufactured after march 08. many would pamper the car, as the owner's manual suggests, in the first 2k miles or so. so many are still in the break-in period, so wouldn't push the car to the limit...

but if bmw doesn't fix this soon, more will notice this problem and many will migrate to infiniti g37 or porsche cayman... there's no way i would've chosen this car over those if the one i test-drove was equipped with 29.2

what you said is valid only to the people who's gonna mod the hell out of TT 335i anywayz or to those who bought 335i only cuz it's the top of the line 3 series (think grocery/soccer mom/pops). but there are many, like myself, who chose 335i for the merit, not the brand, of the car itself - namely lagless turbo and value - yes, i did buy $45k cuz it offered me the best bang for the bucks...

my final advice. if you are buying 335i just cuz it's bmw and it's the best you can afford and/or it's the top of the line 3-series and don't care if it drives like bmw or lexus, be my guest. but if you care about performance, with 29.2, it no longer offers the kind of performance that it used to offer with pre-29.2... you can do a lot better with $45k of your hard-earned money - namely infinity or even lexus...

and if you believe your car drives the same or better than with pre-29.2, you should've seriously considered lexus.
Today 12:29 AM

Your conclusion after these sentences is correct, the rest is not. Most of the people complaining here (including me) have not used a tune yet. Those who have, don't have a reason to complain.

Now, given the absence of a fix by BMW, we're probably facing the shere neccessity to employ a tune to get rid of those problems.

We're just complaining about BMW refusing to downgrade their software (or at least take back some of the "improvements" which lead to the lag problem). The new software seems to have many new features (among them the rattle problem fix), one of which is an anti-tune strategy, that already has been overcome by most tuners.

And if the main reason for not wanting to downgrade is in fact the anti-tuning feature, we'd all be paying the price for a already-failed marketing measure. By that I mean protecting the M3's reign from Vishnu and their likes.

I think it's even more ironic that this will probably lead to actually more people tuning their cars unwantingly, and this might not quite be what BMW intended.

BTW: There is word here that a new Progman update is underway. My car will be back in the shop tomorrow to fix the defective 6FL, I will ask then.

Two EXCELLENT posts...could not agree more. That is EXACTALY HOW I FEEL. The car I test drove was fast enough...pre29.2....the car I took del post29.2 is not the same fucking car!!

My timing could not have been more shitty. I test drove a 335xi in March, pre 29.2, orderd my 335xi for a June delivery post 29.2, and PHUCK WAMMY, I GOT FISTED AND MADE TO LIKE IT!!!!!! Not even close to the same car I test drove....

[slubu]

If it were me, whatever your payments are (finance/lease), I would keep track. I would even go as far as calling BMWNA and telling them what is going on and that you are thinking of withholding payment.

I'm almost scared to go test drive a pre 29.2 car because then I will no longer like my car. I'm more pissed for others than I am myself!

[dangla]

I just picked up my car today. I got flashed to 30.1 – I don’t feel any lack.

Maybe I’m just lucky?

[F32Fleet]

I don't have a 335i, but the 330, in anycase I heard the new program merely brings actual HP/TQ of the 335 in line with what's advertised. 300 hp at the crank, and ~300 ft/lbs of TQ. Sounds like BMW knew the actual numbers were higher, but reduced them to make room for a BMW Flash ($$$). Just rumor..

PS, I haven't read the entire thread so plz don't flame if this was posted already.

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by Socom

I don't have a 335i, but the 330, in anycase I heard the new program merely brings actual HP/TQ of the 335 in line with what's advertised. 300 hp at the crank, and ~300 ft/lbs of TQ. Sounds like BMW knew the actual numbers were higher, but reduced them to make room for a BMW Flash ($$$). Just rumor..

PS, I haven't read the entire thread so plz don't flame if this was posted already.

110% not true.

[RBBMWE46M3]

Originally Posted by dangla

I just picked up my car today. I got flashed to 30.1 – I don’t feel any lack.

Maybe I’m just lucky?

must be...
Just got off the phone with my SM and he informed me that "yes there is a new flash, (v30.1) but it does not solve the lag issue but BMW is working on a new flash as several customers of his his have complained of lag or car feeling different after the 29.2 flash...: mad0259:

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by RBBMWE46M3

must be...
Just got off the phone with my SM and he informed me that "yes there is a new flash, (v30.1) but it does not solve the lag issue but BMW is working on a new flash as several customers of his his have complained of lag or car feeling different after the 29.2 flash...: mad0259:

well...that's SOME progress, right?

[Kruz]

Subscribed....

First scheduled service coming up next month. No way am I letting them update my software if this isnt resolved.

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by dangla

I just picked up my car today. I got flashed to 30.1 – I don’t feel any lack.

Maybe I’m just lucky?

There is several possibilities why you don't feel lag:

1. What was the reason for your update? Maybe you did not get the upgrade for the DME, even when they said, you got v30.1 (*). A good indication of a "full" update would be a full day in the shop.

2. It has been said that some people are not affected by lag, at least BMW told me so. They had no clue what is the discriminating factor. Maybe your car differs ever so slightly in a certain way (TMAP sensor sensitivity, or anything else).

3. Did you try hard? Apparently, some people's needs are different than other's. In that case: Buy a Lexus or move out of Denmark! (What's it like to be able to accelerate to maximum allowable speed in 6 seconds? Sorry, couldn't resist!)



(*) Software updates can affect up to 70 different units. They had to be programmed one after another, this could take up to one day in the past. Thus, BMW decided to optimize this process by just determining a dependency graph, which starts at the originating update.

For example, if your FM radio has to be replaced, it may have a newer software revision than the one that your car came with (maybe because the manufacturer had to use another integrated chip than before). The radio unit exchanges information with the navigation unit and thus, a certain revision of the radio software may require a minimum version of the navigation unit software in order to interoperate. This mechanism can lead to cascades of dependencies, but it does not have to.

The update process tries to minimize the number of updates done in much the same way as a unix "make". In fact, this means, that in reality, there is no such thing as "Progman v30.1". Matter-of-fact, you can have an array of single software revisions in you car's units. Only the one that the update originated from is guaranteed to have the highest current revision.

Thus, if your car was rather new and only a very "peripheral" unit had to be updated (like, say, the universal garage door opener), it is unlikely that your DME even got updated to v30.1.

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by dangla

I just picked up my car today. I got flashed to 30.1 – I don’t feel any lack.

Maybe I’m just lucky?

Meyer, great info in the * section above.

Guys, this lends a little more credence to an idea being kicked around before....that 29.2+ was written to be used on the new cars which have a slightly different hardware somewhere on them (wastegate rods, valve, etc etc). It would make sense that they change the hardware to avoid the rattling issue (perhaps beef up the springs in the actuator rods) then write a new program to operate them properly. Maybe we have the new code, trying to deal with the "old" hardware. Pure speculation and just thinking out loud. To go against all of this, I know there are others here who picked up their car recently and it is lagtastic.

[Archibald Donnington]

My SA told me that if they didn't update my software the my warranty may be voided. I then called BMW NA and they confirmed it as well. That's all she wrote boys and girls.
aaron

[slubu]

Originally Posted by Archibald Donnington

My SA told me that if they didn't update my software the my warranty may be voided. I then called BMW NA and they confirmed it as well. That's all she wrote boys and girls.
aaron

what the f...

[asdflkijd]

Quick question, I'm working on getting my oilcooler retrofit on a pre March 07 build, I just did my 15k service change and everything was fine, I left my UR Catless DP's in there along with the BMS O2 Simms.. When I drop my car off for the oilcooler retrofit, they will upgrade my software, correct? They will be able to see that I have DP's/ O2 simms installed inside the ECU compartment, correct? I am screwed unless I take out the DP's and O2 simms.. correct?... I think I just answered my questions! .. Can anyone chime in?