[CSL335i]

Not much space :-)

[Evooooo]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

So again, you are doing all this for 500 WHP? So basically you are building a show car. Nothing wrong with show cars. But there is a distinct difference with building things for performance and building things just to build them. All this work for 500 WHP, falls into the later definition. Sure looks cool though!

Contribute in a positive way and commend them for the impeccable work that is being done in this thread.

[pwr hungry]

Originally Posted by Evooooo

Contribute in a positive way and commend them for the impeccable work that is being done in this thread.

While I don't totally disagree with you, you're a little off base with the "quality" you say this is. From an engineering standpoint, I see a lot of areas where things should be done differently.

OP, I get why you moved the water pump, but you're going to have a fun time trying to bleed the system with the pump up there mounted like that. Cavitation city.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

So race cars are show cars? You basically just raised the age old debate of tune 335 vs. M3, this revealing your ignorance. Quit trolling.

Actually no if you actually read what I wrote, there is a DISTINCT difference between race cars and show cars. Race cars, or even builds that are done for power, are built completely based around that, making maximum power. Show cars are based around building a car that has a lot of modifications and makes little power gains, for the purpose of showing them off, hence the term "show car". This car car a fully built motor, every thing rebuilt, a questionable turbo setup that has been proven not to work well in the past for making big power, they are redoing EVERYTHING on the car for what they claim is 500 HP. You can make 500 HP with these cars easily. SO its a very valid question, is this a show car? Because doing all this work for 500 hp makes no sense. No where did I say it is not high quality, nor did I say I did not like the work. If people would who actually work on cars and not just read websites would stop for a second. I am trying to understand what this car is, because it is not clear. I am not hating, this is a very awesome project, but what is the goal? The amount of money spent is beyond comprehension for something that can easily be out performed with 1/10th the budget. So that would seem to put it in the show car category. So before people start showing their ignorance and yelling and stamping their feet. Actually read what I wrote, with comprehension. The same people getting upset are prob the ones who last week were saying our stage 2 turbos couldn't make 500 WHP, and our N55 upgrade was actually a downgrade. In one weeks time, both are proven not to be the case. I think we have proven we know what we are doing enough to ask a simple honest question, what is the purpose of this build?

[CSL335i]

Originally Posted by pwr hungry

While I don't totally disagree with you, you're a little off base with the "quality" you say this is. From an engineering standpoint, I see a lot of areas where things should be done differently.

As i mentioned earlier in my thread, THERE ARE DIFFERENT PATHS, DIFFERENT POSSIBILITIES to rebuilt your car. Every path has advantages and disadvantages compared to each other. Tuning is a give and take. We still have a few pretty good ideas, which cannot be applied in my case, as we have has some restrictions.

Originally Posted by pwr hungry

OP, I get why you moved the water pump, but you're going to have a fun time trying to bleed the system with the pump up there mounted like that. Cavitation city.

The pump still locates lower than the water coolant expansion tank, i do not see any problem here, but maybe i am wrong :-)

[CSL335i]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

Actually no if you actually read what I wrote, there is a DISTINCT difference between race cars and show cars. Race cars, or even builds that are done for power, are built completely based around that, making maximum power. Show cars are based around building a car that has a lot of modifications and makes little power gains, for the purpose of showing them off, hence the term "show car". This car car a fully built motor, every thing rebuilt, a questionable turbo setup that has been proven not to work well in the past for making big power, they are redoing EVERYTHING on the car for what they claim is 500 HP. You can make 500 HP with these cars easily. SO its a very valid question, is this a show car? Because doing all this work for 500 hp makes no sense. No where did I say it is not high quality, nor did I say I did not like the work. If people would who actually work on cars and not just read websites would stop for a second. I am trying to understand what this car is, because it is not clear. I am not hating, this is a very awesome project, but what is the goal? The amount of money spent is beyond comprehension for something that can easily be out performed with 1/10th the budget. So that would seem to put it in the show car category. So before people start showing their ignorance and yelling and stamping their feet. Actually read what I wrote, with comprehension. The same people getting upset are prob the ones who last week were saying our stage 2 turbos couldn't make 500 WHP, and our N55 upgrade was actually a downgrade. In one weeks time, both are proven not to be the case. I think we have proven we know what we are doing enough to ask a simple honest question, what is the purpose of this build?

No hates here Tony. We are living in the age of internet and democracy. Everybody has the right to make words to his opinions, preferably in a tasty way. When i decided to publish my rebuilt I already decided to accept others opinions or consider other suggestions. Both pros or negs.

My goals are with this rebuilt:
- walk my PATH, including some considerable ideas applied on my n54
- to have a car, which can handle 500HP in a LONG-TERM very-very reliable way in the upcoming years, once we finished him.
- to test a few of our inhouse developed technical developments.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by CSL335i

No hates here Tony. We are living in the age of internet and democracy. Everybody has the right to make words to his opinions, preferably in a tasty way. When i decided to publish my rebuilt I already decided to accept others opinions or consider other suggestions. Both pros or negs.

My goals are with this rebuilt:
- walk my PATH, including some considerable ideas applied on my n54
- to have a car, which can handle 500HP in a LONG-TERM very-very reliable way in the upcoming years, once we finished him.
- to test a few of our inhouse developed technical developments.

This is quite clear now, I think.

One should also be aware of the fact - and here I disagree a bit with Tony - that a race car is not at all only about how much power you can make. Building race cars is as much about reliability as about anything else. And there is a very big difference if you want to build a 500whp car that is used on a dragstrip or in a race on a track / circuit - in the latter case the strain on the engine and its components is far, far greater than in the former case.

And even if you're building a street car, in case you are living in Germany and dispose of unlimited motorways, the strain on the engine and its components is far, far greater than if you can only drive the car in a country with speed limits. That is precisely the reason why all major car manufacturers abuse their cars on the Nürburgring every year, to find weak spots that would occur when driving all-out for a long period of time.

I know personally of several cases where N54 engines substantially below 500whp have not withstood repeated WOT with speeds exceeding 300 km/h for a longer period of time. They had to be rebuilt with different internal components after less than 20.000km. Which is why IMHO it's not fair to qualify a car as a show car only because more money is spent than necessary to reach certain power levels; there are also alternative motivations beyond the two possibilities mentioned so far.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[nanceman]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

This is quite clear now, I think.

One should also be aware of the fact - and here I disagree a bit with Tony - that a race car is not at all only about how much power you can make. Building race cars is as much about reliability as about anything else. And there is a very big difference if you want to build a 500whp car that is used on a dragstrip or in a race on a track / circuit - in the latter case the strain on the engine and its components is far, far greater than in the former case.

And even if you're building a street car, in case you are living in Germany and dispose of unlimited motorways, the strain on the engine and its components is far, far greater than if you can only drive the car in a country with speed limits. That is precisely the reason why all major car manufacturers abuse their cars on the Nrburgring every year, to find weak spots that would occur when driving all-out for a long period of time.

I know personally of several cases where N54 engines substantially below 500whp have not withstood repeated WOT with speeds exceeding 300 km/h for a longer period of time. They had to be rebuilt with different internal components after less than 20.000km. Which is why IMHO it's not fair to qualify a car as a show car only because more money is spent than necessary to reach certain power levels; there are also alternative motivations beyond the two possibilities mentioned so far.

Alpina_B3_Lux

+1

Whether some paths would have been different to reach the same point, myself also being an automotive engineer I can say I beyond have respect for those who actually understand the validation, durability testing, stressed areas, etc. all OEMs complete. To see someone build a car with that same level of all encompassing upgrades to ensure the DFMEA has been evaluated as thoroughly as possible is both refreshing and oh so cool.

[BoostedE90]

Originally Posted by CSL335i

- to have a car, which can handle 500HP in a LONG-TERM very-very reliable way in the upcoming years, once we finished him.

Out of everything I think this is the most important purpose of this build. To put a car on the track or road and know that it's not going to grenade on you. That when you put your foot on the gas it's going to do exactly what it's supposed to do. To say that all this work is being done to ONLY handle 500HP is somewhat undermining. There are plenty of race cars out there that don't have 500HP and are very capable of producing more. Turner Motorsports 2011 Continental Tire Series Championship winning E92 M3 has around ~450HP. So does that make it a show car? Their M3 street project car has around ~525HP so should that be their race just cause it's built with the intent of higher HP? Rather than focus on strictly how much HP this car is going make look at the overall picture.

Amazing build @CSL335i. Keep up the remarkable work!

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by BoostedE90

Out of everything I think this is the most important purpose of this build. To put a car on the track or road and know that it's not going to grenade on you. That when you put your foot on the gas it's going to do exactly what it's supposed to do. To say that all this work is being done to ONLY handle 500HP is somewhat undermining. There are plenty of race cars out there that don't have 500HP. Turner Motorsports 2011 Continental Tire Series Championship winning E92 M3 has around ~450HP. So does that make it a show car? Their M3 street project car has around ~525HP so should that be their race just cause it's built with the intent of higher HP? Rather than focus on strictly how much HP this car is going make look at the overall picture.

Amazing build @CSL335i. Keep up the amazing work!

I am looking at the overall picture and not judging in any way. Simply ASKING a question no one seems to want to answer, EVERY build has a purpose or reason for building it, its usually either max horsepower, show car, street bragging rights, or just having something no one else has. What is the purpose of this build? Because to throw this much money and something and say there is no purpose, then why are you spending money? As far as making a 500 WHP reliable N54. Strap on any ST kit, our stage 3 when its done, run conservative boost, and leave every factory system alone, and you can run 500 WHP all day every day for 10 years. This is a fact, so it brings me back to my point, why are you changing everything? Is it just to say you did it and have something different? If that is the case, that's very cool too. Having something unique is just as cool as having something fast. I am just asking what is your goal with this car?

[135Pats]

6466 twin scroll, a modest advance curve, pump gas, boom 500 wheel.

So clearly outright power is not OP’s chief concern. What I appreciate is the degree of originality in this build, there are some cool ideas being put to the test here that we don’t see often. No question this is “over built” for the power levels, strictly speaking.

[ihc95]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

I am just asking what is your goal with this car?

View post #271

[Dmacc]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

I am looking at the overall picture and not judging in any way. Simply ASKING a question no one seems to want to answer, EVERY build has a purpose or reason for building it, its usually either max horsepower, show car, street bragging rights, or just having something no one else has. What is the purpose of this build? Because to throw this much money and something and say there is no purpose, then why are you spending money? As far as making a 500 WHP reliable N54. Strap on any ST kit, our stage 3 when its done, run conservative boost, and leave every factory system alone, and you can run 500 WHP all day every day for 10 years. This is a fact, so it brings me back to my point, why are you changing everything? Is it just to say you did it and have something different? If that is the case, that's very cool too. Having something unique is just as cool as having something fast. I am just asking what is your goal with this car?

"My goals are with this rebuilt:
- walk my PATH, including some considerable ideas applied on my n54
- to have a car, which can handle 500HP in a LONG-TERM very-very reliable way in the upcoming years, once we finished him.
- to test a few of our inhouse developed technical developments."

On a side note we have not seen a single n54 running 500whp reliably for 10 years straight. Yet.

[CSL335i]

Originally Posted by Dmacc

On a side note we have not seen a single n54 running 500whp reliably for 10 years straight. Yet.

Of course, there are parts, which still seems to be weak points on long-term bases, like injectors, HPFP, sensors, etc., but these are replacable.

We overbuilt this beauty to provide relaibility.

[CSL335i]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

6466 twin scroll, a modest advance curve, pump gas, boom 500 wheel.

So clearly outright power is not OP’s chief concern. What I appreciate is the degree of originality in this build, there are some cool ideas being put to the test here that we don’t see often. No question this is “over built” for the power levels, strictly speaking.

My car likes your comments :-)

[CSL335i]

While some of you tried to figure out my goals regarding this projects, we finalized the position and piping of the air filter. We used flex pipes as well with strenghtened end.

[Island Road]

If you are doing all this custom work not have the air intake build into the hold like what the real M3 does. It would be fairly easy to 3D print that. I am not sure if any intake vents fit thoes holes right now though but then again its a easy custom job and have the filer higher up but built into the line.

[CSL335i]

Originally Posted by islandroad83

If you are doing all this custom work not have the air intake build into the hold like what the real M3 does. It would be fairly easy to 3D print that. I am not sure if any intake vents fit thoes holes right now though but then again its a easy custom job and have the filer higher up but built into the line.

This is our first version. will be refined later. Want to rebuilt the car, use it and see what we can improve regarding the air filter. i am thinking an air box or at least a modified vent here down the line...

[Iceberg3232]

Originally Posted by CSL335i

This is our first version. will be refined later. Want to rebuilt the car, use it and see what we can improve regarding the air filter. i am thinking an air box or at least a modified vent here down the line...

[CSL335i]

I upload more pictures, as we are finalizing the piping on hot side.

[CSL335i]

As we have completly new downpipes we have to redisign our previous custom made exhaust system. There is also an X-pipe, two HJS (euro5) 200 CELL sport cats, etc. Once we finished with the exhaust system, it will be recoating with ceramic.
We use 63.5/60.5mm pipes.

[Bimmer Barney]

What muffler?