Eugene no longer with Procede??

e.n335 · 11-29-2007, 04:38 AM

These are 2 different issues.

The first picture shows that the boost after upshifting is higher than before. In this example it is only 0.5 psi. I had occurances where it has been 2 psi. The problem I have with this is when I have a map providing 14psi in the upper rev ranges, I can end up with 16psi. This happened, I have no log for this.

The second picture shows a very unusual boost build up. Pedal is pushed about 1/3 only. As in many occurances before boost should be around 8-9 psi. In this case it built up to more than 13.2 psi and tapered down to 8-9psi without changing the pedal position. I think this is exactly the situation where some testers saw up to 20 psi. Very hard to document. Did you check the excel file ? There you should see the engine load, it should be constant.

- Eugen

OpenFlash · 11-29-2007, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

These are 2 different issues.

The first picture shows that the boost after upshifting is higher than before. In this example it is only 0.5 psi. I had occurances where it has been 2 psi. The problem I have with this is when I have a map providing 14psi in the upper rev ranges, I can end up with 16psi. This happened, I have no log for this.

The second picture shows a very unusual boost build up. Pedal is pushed about 1/3 only. As in many occurances before boost should be around 8-9 psi. In this case it built up to more than 13.2 psi and tapered down to 8-9psi without changing the pedal position. I think this is exactly the situation where some testers saw up to 20 psi. Very hard to document. Did you check the excel file ? There you should see the engine load, it should be constant.

- Eugen

I'm going to sleep. I'll correct you in the morning. This is ridiculous.

tek818 · 11-29-2007, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

The first picture shows that the boost after upshifting is higher than before. In this example it is only 0.5 psi. I had occurances where it has been 2 psi. The problem I have with this is when I have a map providing 14psi in the upper rev ranges, I can end up with 16psi. This happened, I have no log for this.

Is this that you are talking about? Didn't shiv say a while back that the small spike seen after shifting is never seen by the turbos?

e.n335 · 11-29-2007, 04:59 AM

^ Seems to be a log from a manual. No, I did not have the boost spike I see in your picture.

judec · 11-29-2007, 05:01 AM

So, Eugene, really interesting and surprising.

What's next? I guess getting JB2 is not really acceptable for U, so - driving stock untill the attache arrives?

e.n335 · 11-29-2007, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I'm going to sleep. I'll correct you in the morning. This is ridiculous.

Good answer, +1.

You seem to forget that your beta testers did hundrets of miles at their own time and costs to help to develop your product. The curve should look like what you see between 179 and 183 seconds.

- Eugen

lawdude · 11-29-2007, 05:14 AM

Eugen:

I don't have a clue what those data logs mean. Could you explain in simple terms what they mean.

stefano7171 · 11-29-2007, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

Good answer, +1.

You seem to forget that your beta testers did hundrets of miles at their own time and costs to help to develop your product. The curve should look like what you see between 179 and 183 seconds.

- Eugen

Yes, the word "ridicolous" does not represent a fair reward for the job you have done.

e.n335 · 11-29-2007, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdude

Eugen:

I don't have a clue what those data logs mean. Could you explain in simple terms what they mean.

Hi,

I am not the tuner, Shiv is. For me this just means that it is not true, what Shiv promised for V2. He said we will see no boost spikes with his new method to control boost. I don't get why I see 16psi in 14psi maps and I don't get why I see boost and fuel delivery values as if I would push the pedal 100% when I push 33%.

I am curious, Shiv said he will explain.

- Eugen

j|rz44 · 11-29-2007, 05:31 AM

This is all ridiculous!
this map will mean F*** All once we get our DP's...
wait to split your hairs then.

GL

e.n335 · 11-29-2007, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judec

So, Eugene, really interesting and surprising.

What's next? I guess getting JB2 is not really acceptable for U, so - driving stock untill the attache arrives?

Next will get interesting. I will install JB2 to see which product is ridiculous. Nice to be able to compare. When the Attaché will come out, I expect to buy one as well. At the end I will know what will be best for me and my car.

- Eugen

vbb · 11-29-2007, 05:50 AM

Interesting to see how this issue will work itself out. I can't wait for Shiv's response to Eugen. Since I'm not a Procede user, I really have no dog in this fight... but like the rest of this community, I'm always interested in what products are out there for our cars, and how well they work. I'm always a potential customer (although I'm quite happy with my current setup).

Also, I'm sure once the dust settles, we'll hear a bit more about Procede going 12.2 in the quartermile. I'm interested in hearing more about that as well.

Congrats on that Vishnu!

Bubbles · 11-29-2007, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

Next will get interesting. I will install JB2 to see which product is ridiculous. Nice to be able to compare. When the Attaché will come out, I expect to buy one as well. At the end I will know what will be best for me and my car.

- Eugen

Well, I for one appreciate this thread and the open dialog. I am one of the "non-chip" owners waiting with a "pocket full of money" for a reliable tune for everyday driving (Turbo Tuner is not enough for me). Eugen I respect your input to this forum and appreciate your efforts.

lawdude · 11-29-2007, 06:00 AM

Terry uses Jedi mind tricks on Eugen. The force is strong with Terry.

e.n335 · 11-29-2007, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbb

Interesting to see how this issue will work itself out. I can't wait for Shiv's response to Eugen. Since I'm not a Procede user, I really have no dog in this fight... but like the rest of this community, I'm always interested in what products are out there for our cars, and how well they work. I'm always a potential customer (although I'm quite happy with my current setup).

Also, I'm sure once the dust settles, we'll hear a bit more about Procede going 12.2 in the quartermile. I'm interested in hearing more about that as well.

Congrats on that Vishnu!

I hope it will not end in some bashing, I am curious in Shiv's explanations as well. When it needs ~ US$ 1000 to find out what's best for my application I spend the money. Better than continuing spending time and money in V2 testing and being called "ridiculous"

.

I always have the option to use the PROcede again when it turns out that the final product will work fine.

- Eugen

M&M · 11-29-2007, 06:05 AM

The map sensor is in the intercooler outlet pipe in the run up to the throttle. So when you close the throttle, there will be a boost spike until such time as the DV's open. This is totally normal in most turbo cars. Am I seeing something wrong here?

e.n335 · 11-29-2007, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdude

Terry uses Jedi mind tricks on Eugen. The force is strong with Terry.

Bubbles · 11-29-2007, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

I hope it will not end in some bashing, I am curious in Shiv's explanations as well. When it needs ~ US$ 1000 to find out what's best for my application I spend the money. Better than continuing spending time and money in V2 testing and being called "ridiculous"

.

I always have the option to use the PROcede again when it turns out that the final product will work fine.

- Eugen

Eugen $1000 US!! what is that 5 Euros at this point

.

e.n335 · 11-29-2007, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M

The map sensor is in the intercooler outlet pipe in the run up to the throttle. So when you close the throttle, there will be a boost spike until such time as the DV's open. This is totally normal in most turbo cars. Am I seeing something wrong here?

I am not talking about boost spikes closing the throttle, they are normal. I am talking about spikes happening accidental, Shiv may believe it or not. There are more V2 customers on the board who experienced this. I am not the only one who saw the spikes, I am just the first one where this has consequences.

I have absolutely no reason not telling the truth. Nobody would have been more happy than me just to enjoy the PROcede. What other reason should I have to discuss about problems when there would be none ? I am even not selling the PROcede before I don't know how this turns out. Nobody can discredit me for being careful in this situation. I would better work hard to identify and fix the issue than discussing about the qualification of customers and beta testers and calling them whatever.

My 2 cents.

- Eugen

stefano7171 · 11-29-2007, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdude

Terry uses Jedi mind tricks on Eugen. The force is strong with Terry.

Yes....

Darth Eugen!

..... I am still curious to find out which is the dark side though!

All I wish is ultimately, Eugen and Shiv to...

CaptOz · 11-29-2007, 06:32 AM

What do you think your "hoovering" sound might be Eugen?

Cheers.

e.n335 · 11-29-2007, 06:39 AM

No idea, but what else could "hoover" than a turbo ?

11-29-2007, 04:38 AM	#265
e.n335 Moderator 341 Rep 4,481 Posts Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Switzerland, ZH iTrader: (0)	These are 2 different issues. The first picture shows that the boost after upshifting is higher than before. In this example it is only 0.5 psi. I had occurances where it has been 2 psi. The problem I have with this is when I have a map providing 14psi in the upper rev ranges, I can end up with 16psi. This happened, I have no log for this. The second picture shows a very unusual boost build up. Pedal is pushed about 1/3 only. As in many occurances before boost should be around 8-9 psi. In this case it built up to more than 13.2 psi and tapered down to 8-9psi without changing the pedal position. I think this is exactly the situation where some testers saw up to 20 psi. Very hard to document. Did you check the excel file ? There you should see the engine load, it should be constant. - Eugen
	Appreciate 0

11-29-2007, 04:59 AM	#268
e.n335 Moderator 341 Rep 4,481 Posts Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Switzerland, ZH iTrader: (0)	^ Seems to be a log from a manual. No, I did not have the boost spike I see in your picture.
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11-29-2007, 05:01 AM	#269
judec born to be turbocharged 25 Rep 1,347 Posts Drives: Not a bimmer yet Join Date: May 2007 Location: Slovakia iTrader: (0)	So, Eugene, really interesting and surprising. What's next? I guess getting JB2 is not really acceptable for U, so - driving stock untill the attache arrives? __________________ Disclaimer: All this message was written with recycled electrons.
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11-29-2007, 05:14 AM	#271
lawdude Colonel 109 Rep 2,339 Posts Drives: 335i ZPP ZSP TiAg MT Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Georgia iTrader: (1)	Eugen: I don't have a clue what those data logs mean. Could you explain in simple terms what they mean.
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11-29-2007, 05:31 AM	#274
j\|rz44 Lieutenant Colonel 48 Rep 1,683 Posts Drives: 335i\|E92 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lost iTrader: (2) Garage List 07 335i [0.00]	This is all ridiculous! this map will mean F*** All once we get our DP's... wait to split your hairs then. GL __________________ Life is Good
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11-29-2007, 05:50 AM	#276
vbb Major 2829 Rep 1,118 Posts Drives: 2022 M4 6MT Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: present iTrader: (4)	Interesting to see how this issue will work itself out. I can't wait for Shiv's response to Eugen. Since I'm not a Procede user, I really have no dog in this fight... but like the rest of this community, I'm always interested in what products are out there for our cars, and how well they work. I'm always a potential customer (although I'm quite happy with my current setup). Also, I'm sure once the dust settles, we'll hear a bit more about Procede going 12.2 in the quartermile. I'm interested in hearing more about that as well. Congrats on that Vishnu! __________________ Previous notables: '05 S2000 \| '07 335i \| '09 ISF \| '08 911 Turbo \| '09 911 C2 \| '15 Cayman \| '15 RCF \| '17 MX-5 RF \| '17 C7 Corvette
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11-29-2007, 06:00 AM	#278
lawdude Colonel 109 Rep 2,339 Posts Drives: 335i ZPP ZSP TiAg MT Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Georgia iTrader: (1)	Terry uses Jedi mind tricks on Eugen. The force is strong with Terry.
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11-29-2007, 06:05 AM	#280
M&M Captain 130 Rep 750 Posts Drives: Boosted Beemers! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa iTrader: (0)	The map sensor is in the intercooler outlet pipe in the run up to the throttle. So when you close the throttle, there will be a boost spike until such time as the DV's open. This is totally normal in most turbo cars. Am I seeing something wrong here?
	Appreciate 0

11-29-2007, 06:32 AM	#285
CaptOz Captain 43 Rep 833 Posts Drives: Porsche 911 Carrera S Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia iTrader: (0)	What do you think your "hoovering" sound might be Eugen? Cheers.
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11-29-2007, 06:39 AM	#286
e.n335 Moderator 341 Rep 4,481 Posts Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Switzerland, ZH iTrader: (0)	No idea, but what else could "hoover" than a turbo ?
	Appreciate 0