[meyergru]

Originally Posted by Tschuss

I have not experienced B. From some of the descriptions I've heard, B is no better than A.

I think it is better than A.

As one of the few who have had several versions on his car, I can say that with MSD80, there are these categories of lag behaviour:

C. Either: pre-29.2, in my case v27.4.x: Everything is O.K.
Or: ISTA/P 2.32.2.0.1 (in my case, but I believe this applies to any
version >= 2.32.1) with the "lag fix" (whatever you call it) is 100%
up to par with pre-v29.2. This includes cases where the lag-fix
does not have to be applied explicitely (or even cannot), like my car.

A. v29.2 - v30.x: Laggy beyond belief.

B. v31.1.1 (in my case): 90% of pre-v29.2 behaviour. Remember, this
one still has the wastegates open at idle. So, if anything is out of
order with the vacuum tubes or wastegate rods, it may be nearly as
bad as category A! Maybe iScream's turbo replacement did not go too well?

I assume B is what ISTA/P >= 2.32.1 without the lag-fix is like. And from what I've read and heard, I suspect that this is the default for MSD81 cars, too.

And: YES, you absolutely want to get option C! I'd rather get that and risk to pay for a rattle fix by wastegate replacement.

[Tschuss]

Originally Posted by iScream

I'm pretty tuned into the feel of the Lag... In the past 9 months, I've had

A) pre-29.2
B) 29.2
C) 29.2 with new wastegates and new turbos
D) 2.32.1 with no lagfix
E) 2.32.1 (supposedly) with lagfix

I drove option A for by far the most miles, and it was the best, and that is all I am trying to get out of my car. It had no strange wastegate noises, no tick at 3300 RPM, and the original (<200ms) "lag" at all revs higher than 1.4k. Options D and E are indiscernible from one another, but noticeably better than B or C. Some have said D is 90% better than C, but I'd say it's more like 50% better, or only halfway back to A.

Right now I am trying to figure out if this abnormal wastegate behavior is a sign that the lagfix was not applied properly, as I can't tell the difference between D and E, yet some people apparently notice a big difference.

iScream - I'm going to double down those Scotches you owe me: Your lag has not been fixed.

To throw a wrench in the mix.... my car had rattles pre 29.2 at idle when cold. Now with ISTA/p 2.32.1 with turbo retrofit/lag-fix, I have no rattling ever.

-B

[tooch]

So what i've been reading is that if they change the wastgate that still won't fix the rattle?

[40yroldawakening]

My car goes in friday, for the lag fix. I have only had one re=program and the was the 29.2. I can remember very well the way my car ran before 29.2 and I never had the waste gate rattle. Prod. 11/06. I did not get any other upgrades they offered, I just layed back and waited.

I will post back friday night, or saturday to give my .02. They did warn me that by getting this lag fix it may develop the wastegate rattle. I told them we can deal with that when the time comes. I currently have 31k miles on the car.

[Speed_Addict]

Originally Posted by meyergru

A. v29.2 - v30.x: Laggy beyond belief.

B. v31.1.1 (in my case): 90% of pre-v29.2 behaviour. Remember, this
one still has the wastegates open at idle. So, if anything is out of
order with the vacuum tubes or wastegate rods, it may be nearly as
bad as category A! Maybe iScream's turbo replacement did not go too well?

I assume B is what ISTA/P >= 2.32.1 without the lag-fix is like. And from what I've read and heard, I suspect that this is the default for MSD81 cars, too.

And: YES, you absolutely want to get option C! I'd rather get that and risk to pay for a rattle fix by wastegate replacement.

It is hard to beleive that those of us with MSD81 are being somewhat left out in the cold here. I know my car is not what it was when I did my ED at the end of April last year. Meyergru relayed to me that he was relatively certain that ED cars do get reprogrammed when they pass through VPC at the port. I have just been disapointed the quick response I experienced on the trip apears to be neutered but the claim is there is not problem with MSD81 cars. I just don't quite buy it. Hopefully I will get 2.32.1 when I go to have the alarm programmed for the car soon and that will help - but I was really hoping it would be the full meal deal when it came to restoring the reponsiveness of car I experienced on ED. The car even sounded different upon redlivery - much more sedate - it lost its growl.

[Christos]

Originally Posted by Christos

I checked the Functional Software Verison under the Applikations menu:

It reads: 008.106.001....does this mean anythign to anybody?

Ok my 3rd day report on ISTA/P 2.32.2.0.1 software version, although waste gate conversion was not confirmed.

The power delivery of my car is phenomenally smoother and linear. Torque now comes on at ~2000 +/- a couple hundred RPMS vs 3000 rpms before. It is quieter; I liked the louder exhaust though. The car is just so much smoother and quick, I LOVE IT!!

Even the AT seems to shift smoother, especialy in DS mode, where at times it would slam into gear.

[i2iSTUDIOS]

I got the lag fix and rattle fix. My god my car is so smooth, I knew I could drive a 6MT better. We'll see how she does with JB3 in later, I can switch from stock to map 4 or 6 depending on which feels smoothest.

[shaddai]

Originally Posted by Speed_Addict

It is hard to beleive that those of us with MSD81 are being somewhat left out in the cold here. I know my car is not what it was when I did my ED at the end of April last year. Meyergru relayed to me that he was relatively certain that ED cars do get reprogrammed when they pass through VPC at the port. I have just been disapointed the quick response I experienced on the trip apears to be neutered but the claim is there is not problem with MSD81 cars. I just don't quite buy it. Hopefully I will get 2.32.1 when I go to have the alarm programmed for the car soon and that will help - but I was really hoping it would be the full meal deal when it came to restoring the reponsiveness of car I experienced on ED. The car even sounded different upon redlivery - much more sedate - it lost its growl.

Welcome to the cold.

[Potty_Pants]

Well put me down for 32 with rattle fix... INSTEAD OF LAG FIX

unfortunately the service advisor didnt know anything about any versions of software or options for V32. Nor could he put me in touch with the lead mechanic. I thanked him for his time (dealer was always nice to me).

called another dealer 90 minutes away and he knew all about V32 lag/wastegate fix crapola... the appointment is scheduled and they will put Dinan back on as well.

What a headache.

Now I just need to find something to do for a day 90 minutes away till the car is flashed.

ppp

[i2iSTUDIOS]

I gave my SA all the documents for rattle fix and the round table discussions. They followed it verbatim.

[Potty_Pants]

Originally Posted by i2iSTUDIOS

I gave my SA all the documents for rattle fix and the round table discussions. They followed it verbatim.

lol so did I... I had to force it on him to take it... i doubt he ever gave the sheet to the tech

ppp

[i2iSTUDIOS]

Originally Posted by Potty_Pants

lol so did I... I had to force it on him to take it... i doubt he ever gave the sheet to the tech

ppp

my guy was so glad I brought it. I told him a bmw tech told me to give these to him so he took them. They called me and told me they are making sure there was no rattle

[dinkoh]

Originally Posted by i2iSTUDIOS

my guy was so glad I brought it. I told him a bmw tech told me to give these to him so he took them. They called me and told me they are making sure there was no rattle

"Using ISTA/P P32.1 or a more recent version, select "Conversions" and then select "Wastegate valve conversion". Follow the on-screen prompts to reinstall the original waste gate operation.

After the "Waste gate valve conversion" has been completed, some waste gate-related noise may be detected."


What does "related noise" mean? Rattle?

[crash1977]

Originally Posted by Potty_Pants

lol so did I... I had to force it on him to take it... i doubt he ever gave the sheet to the tech

ppp

Did the same thing. Got a call yesterday that they installed the new ISTA software. I asked if they put on the Wastegate Conversion and they said it wasn't required. Argued with them over the phone for 15 minutes and they finally agreed to look at the paperwork I gave them.

They held the car another day and I got the call this afternoon it was ready. As I am in Canada they claimed they got their wrist slapped since the SIB i gave them doesn't apply in Canada and they had to get a PUMA case opened. Regardless the technician did confirm to me he hooked up my car and did the wastegate conversions. I have all the Measure Plans but I can't confirm if this happened or not.

That being said... the car is MUCH better then before. I definitely feel a difference. That being said, I only drove it for 7KM. I still noticed however that while the power came on around 1800RPM , at 3000 RPM I noticed even more push then 1800-3000 RPM.

I really don't remember if pre 29.2 was like this since I had 29.2 since May 08.

[krnshinsa]

can anyone tell me when 29.2 was released? or when they started to update?

[Unky]

Originally Posted by iScream

I'm pretty tuned into the feel of the Lag... In the past 9 months, I've had

A) pre-29.2
B) 29.2
C) 29.2 with new wastegates and new turbos
D) 2.32.1 with no lagfix
E) 2.32.1 (supposedly) with lagfix

I drove option A for by far the most miles, and it was the best, and that is all I am trying to get out of my car. It had no strange wastegate noises, no tick at 3300 RPM, and the original (<200ms) "lag" at all revs higher than 1.4k. Options D and E are indiscernible from one another, but noticeably better than B or C. Some have said D is 90% better than C, but I'd say it's more like 50% better, or only halfway back to A.

Right now I am trying to figure out if this abnormal wastegate behavior is a sign that the lagfix was not applied properly, as I can't tell the difference between D and E, yet some people apparently notice a big difference.

This is very interesting, I'm assuming that we are driving the same generation but my experiences have been a bit different.

This E92 MT has a production date of 5/21/07 and should be MSD80
The factory software integration code was 25.1.1=E89X-07-03-521 when I took possession of the car. The car displayed lag that was noticeable but not acute. Certainly nothing like what I've been hearing from people that were running MSD81@29.2 which has appeared to be a constant annoyance to many list members.

After the upgrade to 32.1=E89X-08-09-530 and receiving assurances from what seemed like a very capable shop foreman that the lag-fix had been properly installed, I can't seem to detect the lag anymore at all.

I've never heard any clicks or rattles from wastegates while driving or revving at idle either before or after the upgrade.

One of two possibilities here:

1) Either this car is plagued by the same problems that other people are complaining about but I'm just numb to it all.

2) The car was upgraded properly, is not plagued by, and is not displaying any kind of specific engineering problems.

To be perfectly honest I'm bound to be happy either way.

Reading many people's comments I've come to the conclusion that nothing irks people more than going to the service center and being completely unable to confirm or verify what was done to the car. This kind of uncertainty can be frustrating. If we look at meyergru's translation of a BMW press release originally posted to another thread we see that BMW originally denied there was a problem with what has been many list members primary complaint in category 2

Originally Posted by meyergru

That is BMWese for:

1) BMW had old wastegates fitted, which caused noise after a while of wear. BMW fitted better, improved wastegates, from 09/07. Instead of replacing the old ones, they took the road of a software fix (v29.2) to keep wastegates open - thus eliminating rattles but causing lag and more exhaust noise.

2) BMW says, MSD81 cars are not affected. As we know, March 2008 was the first date when MSD81 got fitted. These cars "got no problems" as none had old wastegates fitted, so there was no need for a "rattle-fix". The release notes of ISTA/P 2.32.1 explicitely refer to MSD80 lag only. As to problems or not with MSD81: there are different convictions. But BMW says there is no fix for that since there is no problem.

3) BMW tells us, cars between 09/07 and 03/08 are automatically retrofitted the original software behaviour (aka "lag-fix") when they get an update with >= v32.1. We know that those cars still have MSD80 but already improved wastegates and thus were given the "rattle-fix" v29.2 in vain. This is the thing that ISTA/P 2.32.1 really addresses.

4) BMW says, cars between 06/06 and 09/07 (MSD80) can request that "lag-fix" too, but at a risk of more exhaust noise. We know those cars have MSD80 and old wastegates, so per default, even with ISTA/P 2.32.1, they will still get the "rattle fix" - although the one included in versions >= v31.1 are WAY better than v29.2 or v30.x. However, if you want full pre-v29.2 wastegate behaviour, you may request the "lag-fix" (aka "turbo retrofit" aka "wastegate retrofit").

Do your really believe they will tell you THAT? Officially? Well, we waited since 03/08 for a fix of the "rattle-fix" v29.2. I bet you can wait FOREVER for a clarification of this topic.

If you are one to effectively digest all of this, how would we ever be able to know what the service techs are doing to our cars when performing upgrades unless we are looking directly over their shoulder? Definitely not from the paperwork I received. Who exactly would be able to ascertain what is the correct upgrade sequence of hardware or software for their unique vehicle situation based on dates and version numbers alone? Has anyone been able to get technicians to verify problems through observation rather than filing a service report?

[crash1977]

Originally Posted by crash1977

Did the same thing. Got a call yesterday that they installed the new ISTA software. I asked if they put on the Wastegate Conversion and they said it wasn't required. Argued with them over the phone for 15 minutes and they finally agreed to look at the paperwork I gave them.

They held the car another day and I got the call this afternoon it was ready. As I am in Canada they claimed they got their wrist slapped since the SIB i gave them doesn't apply in Canada and they had to get a PUMA case opened. Regardless the technician did confirm to me he hooked up my car and did the wastegate conversions. I have all the Measure Plans but I can't confirm if this happened or not.

That being said... the car is MUCH better then before. I definitely feel a difference. That being said, I only drove it for 7KM. I still noticed however that while the power came on around 1800RPM , at 3000 RPM I noticed even more push then 1800-3000 RPM.

I really don't remember if pre 29.2 was like this since I had 29.2 since May 08.

So on the drive home today I had a chance to open it up a little bit more... and I can say that the car is waaaay better then before. I cannot say it is 100% since I almost forgot what it is like but it is feels much quicker on the acceleration under 3K rpm. So I am happy for now. I can post my measure plans if anyone is interested.

[Quisp]

I have a sort of on or off topic question for those that are wiser than myself.
After everything that we have found out about 29.2 and what it does, would you say that 29.2 also helped save or extend the life of the High-Pressure Pumps (HDP) and/or turbos in cars that had it installed?

[marconi118]

Originally Posted by boxter

This afternoon my dealer has installed v.32.1 selecting "valve adjustment ", I have only driven 20 km, but I have seen the wastegate actuator closed at idle!!!
Now the engine is adapting itself after deleting failures memory.
The engine is better at low rpm (0-3000rpm), without LAG (the same before +-0.2sg with pre 29.2). Now the wheels spin!!
The wastegate is now opened when you accelerate without gear selected, only when you are at idle is closed. But if you engage the clutch and accelerate, then the wastegate closes!! Pre-29.2 this was different, always wastegate was closed.
The sound is lower too.
Tomorrow I will drive more kms, but I am sure that it is FIXED!!
My dealer knows perfectly now adjust the wastegate with the depression machine (he has a old and precise machine, different to the bmw official machine of depression), now the wastegate (post 09/2007) ONLY have 1 mm more of diameter. I only have had to install v31.2 for DME module (less 1hour) not change of wastegate, it is correct.
Thank you for your help, particularly to MEYERGRU and PAVEL.

E93 07/07 got finally ista/P32.1 with "conversion wastegate" activated.
It seems to me that the wastegates are always closed (the same as pre 29.2) even without gear selected. But maybe I am wrong.
Could the others in the same situation have a look at their wastegates ?

I whould thank to 2 BMW shops that didi it after a lot of talking:

Konz Luxembourg for replacing me the turbos with new ones with stronger wastegates (second version of turbos)

Emond Arlon Belgium for repalcing the HPFP ad program to 32.1 with wastegate conversion

[40yroldawakening]

Just got home from the dealer and having my car re-programed. I haven't done any dead stop runs yet, but from what my butt is telling me, its back to the way it was before 29.2. Most of the trip home is interstate, but once I closer to home,I did a few blast and it felt great.

I did some testing on my own right before I dropped it off, so I had something to compare to. I always take traction control off, and use M1 to start out. From a roll BEFORE today it would not come in hard and break the tires loose until right about 3k. Now today, I did the same sort of test before getting home and as soon as I hit the pedal it broke the tires loose and pulled really nice.

Tomorrow I will try some other test, as long as weather permits. Still haven't noticed the wastegate ticking yet.

[Christos]

Originally Posted by Christos

Ok my 3rd day report on ISTA/P 2.32.2.0.1 software version, although waste gate conversion was not confirmed.

The power delivery of my car is phenomenally smoother and linear. Torque now comes on at ~2000 +/- a couple hundred RPMS vs 3000 rpms before. It is quieter; I liked the louder exhaust though. The car is just so much smoother and quick, I LOVE IT!!

Even the AT seems to shift smoother, especialy in DS mode, where at times it would slam into gear.

I pride myself on being very perceptive and since my car has been updated, the steering actually feels very lite. I may sound crazy, but really the steering feels, not loose, but almost too easy to turn, steering was always very tight. Ok you can now call me nuts

[bmrm396]

Originally Posted by Christos

I pride myself on being very perceptive and since my car has been updated, the steering actually feels very lite. I may sound crazy, but really the steering feels, not loose, but almost too easy to turn, steering was always very tight. Ok you can now call me nuts

ur nuts