[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Sorry, I have been busy with work trying to finish up a project - have you tried default coding the DME? 6BM0T in NCSExpert - there are various guides online. It'll make the "no coding" error go away. It doesn't affect the DME, and I've never heard it affect other modules, but maybe the DSC is confused because you switched from AT to MT.

All good man — appreciate your help.

I’ve coded it to stock multiple times now and no dice. Reset adaptations in INPA, flashed back to stock, flashed your “No-MAF” 330 software, and now I’m back to the MAF-less version.

No change with any of them. I’ve flashed and recoded DSC so many times too with no change.

Check out the videos above and let me know what you think. The torque is a yo-yo…

[hassmaschine]

have you tried holding the DTC button until the traction control turns off? Does that still drive wonky?

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

have you tried holding the DTC button until the traction control turns off? Does that still drive wonky?

From what I can tell it no longer cuts throttle if I make a hard gear change, so that’s good. Problem is I can’t test cruise control behaviour because cruise is disabled as soon as you enable DTC (single press) or turn DSC off (long press).

My start assist doesn’t work, and apparently a bad wheel speed sensor can cause that. But what’s confounding me is the complete absence of codes . Also might try replacing DSC sensor (under driver seat), but again… Doubt that’s it.

I’ve tried reading every imaginable technical document to understand what could be going on but I’m hopped. No idea. I feel like I’ve tried everything I can think of.

[hassmaschine]

If the acceleration issue goes away with DSC off, that's probably the issue. I'm not sure it's even necessarily because of the swap - it could just be a coincidental failure. I know the pumps can go bad but I'm not sure about the modules. There must be some tests in the TIS for the DSC unit functions? The fact is cruise doesn't work, and you do have a bunch of errors. Maybe the CAN bus itself has a break or a short somewhere?

Have you already disconnected your battery? Some modules do store adaptations and some stuff in volatile memory, and it will be erased if the power is cut off for a while.

Actually, when you removed the EGS - what did you do with the wiring? specifically, the CAN wiring.

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

If the acceleration issue goes away with DSC off, that's probably the issue. I'm not sure it's even necessarily because of the swap - it could just be a coincidental failure. I know the pumps can go bad but I'm not sure about the modules. There must be some tests in the TIS for the DSC unit functions? The fact is cruise doesn't work, and you do have a bunch of errors. Maybe the CAN bus itself has a break or a short somewhere?

Have you already disconnected your battery? Some modules do store adaptations and some stuff in volatile memory, and it will be erased if the power is cut off for a while.

Actually, when you removed the EGS - what did you do with the wiring? specifically, the CAN wiring.

Had battery disconnected during most of the swap so any volatile memory should have cleared. I can always try disconnecting it again though.

For CAN wiring, I bridged pin 1 to pin 3, and pin 2 to pin 4. Thing is everything else about the car has functioned just fine. If I have cruise set and then pull the stalk back and hold it to reduce speed by a lot, the car brakes okay. Overall cruise is shit tho, but aspects of it work predictably.

Update:

• Swapped DSC sensor (under driver seat). No change.
• Picked up DSC module but hesitant to swap it in quite yet due to amount of work with bleeding brakes.

When I have cruise on and the throttle is surging on and off, I get a clicking in the cabin every time the throttle starts. Maybe it's just the DSC module I'm hearing, but it almost sounds like it's coming from the CAS or FRM area. I dunno... Guesses as to why this is are welcome.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by e90yyc

Had battery disconnected during most of the swap so any volatile memory should have cleared. I can always try disconnecting it again though.

For CAN wiring, I bridged pin 1 to pin 3, and pin 2 to pin 4. Thing is everything else about the car has functioned just fine. If I have cruise set and then pull the stalk back and hold it to reduce speed by a lot, the car brakes okay. Overall cruise is shit tho, but aspects of it work predictably.

Update:

• Swapped DSC sensor (under driver seat). No change.
• Picked up DSC module but hesitant to swap it in quite yet due to amount of work with bleeding brakes.

When I have cruise on and the throttle is surging on and off, I get a clicking in the cabin every time the throttle starts. Maybe it's just the DSC module I'm hearing, but it almost sounds like it's coming from the CAS or FRM area. I dunno... Guesses as to why this is are welcome.

Are those pins bridged on the 6mt? I don't really understand why CAN+ would need to be bridged to CAN+, and conversely, CAN- bridged to CAN-.

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Are those pins bridged on the 6mt? I don't really understand why CAN+ would need to be bridged to CAN+, and conversely, CAN- bridged to CAN-.

Yeah. Even though I used the 6MT harness, the body harness is different between auto and 6MT which makes bridging those pins necessary or you have an open CAN loop.

Yesterday I checked all my DME box wiring and just to see I unplugged my looped connector. Windshield wipers started going nuts and I’m sure there were other systems that weren’t functioning. Plugged back in and wipers stopped.

hassmaschine Meant to ask whether you think a bad DSC module or wheel speed sensor is more likely? I'd expect to see a code for either, really, but especially for a wheel speed sensor.

I'll try swapping in my replacement DSC module here and see I guess. If it's not that then I'll try some new (used) wheel speed sensors...

[charlie_m]

In your post #21, Vid #1 shows 'torque' oscillating (about 0-80 N*m), then at about the 10 second mark, pulses up around 2000 N*m. At 1850 RPM, 2000 N*m is about 519 HP

Also, 'clutch torque' has a steady reading of 22 N*m. At 1850 RPM, 22 N*m is about 6 HP. Maybe a reasonable value for steady 45 km/h? Certainly more reasonable than 519 HP.

How are these two torque estimates calculated or sensed? Should they be the same? If an ECU cannot recognise a bad sensor (ie, open or short), it will assume the data is good and behave accordingly. Even though the sensor data is noisy, or oscillating, or ???

In Vid #2, neither 'pressure_acc_FA' or 'pressure_acc_RA' seem to have any signal. Not oscillating near zero like 'brake pressure' does, but like a missing signal.

Just some off-the-wall questions from an outsider BMW newbie. I suspect you have a missing signal, bad sensor, bad ground or other electrical / mechanical issue, rather than a coding issue at this point. I would look into why torque is oscillating; maybe it is the cause rather than the effect.

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by charlie_m

In your post #21, Vid #1 shows 'torque' oscillating (about 0-80 N*m), then at about the 10 second mark, pulses up around 2000 N*m. At 1850 RPM, 2000 N*m is about 519 HP

Also, 'clutch torque' has a steady reading of 22 N*m. At 1850 RPM, 22 N*m is about 6 HP. Maybe a reasonable value for steady 45 km/h? Certainly more reasonable than 519 HP.

How are these two torque estimates calculated or sensed? Should they be the same? If an ECU cannot recognise a bad sensor (ie, open or short), it will assume the data is good and behave accordingly. Even though the sensor data is noisy, or oscillating, or ???

In Vid #2, neither 'pressure_acc_FA' or 'pressure_acc_RA' seem to have any signal. Not oscillating near zero like 'brake pressure' does, but like a missing signal.

Just some off-the-wall questions from an outsider BMW newbie. I suspect you have a missing signal, bad sensor, bad ground or other electrical / mechanical issue, rather than a coding issue at this point. I would look into why torque is oscillating; maybe it is the cause rather than the effect.

Thanks for the reply. I can use all the perspectives I can get.

My understanding based on a ton of reading is that the DSC makes a torque request to the DME. So, I think you're correct in that this is:

1. Not coding related; and
2. Likely a bad signal, sensor, input, etc.

I'm not absolutely certain, but I believe my car should have the start assist feature that holds the brakes for a couple seconds on hills. If this is the case, it's not working and I don't think it ever has during my ownership. xDrive vehicles didn't get the soft-stop feature, at least in my model year, but there is no mention of the Start Assistant being unavailable on xDrive cars. So, I believe I should have this. It's currently enabled with stock coding whereas Soft Stop is not. Interesting to note is that Start Assistant relies on a separate internal incline sensor in the DSC to function… It does also rely on wheel speed sensor data though, so I’m leaning more that way.

Recap:

• Replaced DSC sensor under driver seat with no change
• Swapped in a replacement DSC module, but it was from a MY06 car that had the LDM module (separate module for cruise control) so there was no cruise functionality whatsoever. I took it back out.

I think this is either a bad wheel speed sensor or a bad DSC module. If it's neither of those, I'm completely and utterly out of ideas. I have gotten an intermittent A0B5 code, which is implausible road speed signal at the CAS. This tells me it's *probably* wheel speed sensor related, even though I have no explicit sensor codes and when viewing the live wheel speed data, everything looks okay...

More info:

• Took off both rear wheels. Rear right sensor has visible scrape marks on it, and while the rear left is not as scraped, it also has a few scuffs. The reluctor rings on the axles are facked, and the notches are indistinguishable from each other. I was wrong about this. Turns out the rear sensors rely on the wheel bearing, while the front sensors rely on the axle (ring). This is why I couldn’t make out the rear reluctor rings: there are none. Fronts were in like-new shape. And the face of the rear bearings wouldn’t corrode. So this all checked out.
• Swapped left and right wheel speed sensors
• Put a spacer (washer) under rear right sensor to increase air gap between it and reluctor ring. This is a known solution when they're rubbing.

Just test drove the car and STILL no change. Front axles reluctor rings look brand new. Go figure...

Next course of action:

1. Replaced DSC module with one from a later MY car. 2007 or newer... No junk yards around me have one right now so I'll have to wait.
2. Replace wheel speed sensors with used ones. I can pick some up from junk yards sometime soon.
3. Clean reluctor rings with thin wire brushes (ordered from Amazon)

To your questions about the funky torque values: Sometimes INPA will show weird values for certain fields, so I haven't read into it too much mainly because I don't have a reference point. I don't know what clutch torque is referring to, but it must be VGSG related... The ACC values might relate to Active Cruise Control, which is usually abbreviated as ACC.

[mike5124]

Hi, sorry to hear about the DSC issues.

I'm just throwing an idea out there, I'm not sure if it's possible but have you tried running an update on the DSC module through WinKFP and see if it flashes a different ZB number? Or looking into flashing a different ZB that might support manual trans?

Im not even sure they mention doing this in the manual swap but it's just an idea I had.

Best of luck and I hope everything works out in the end.

- Mike

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by mike5124

Hi, sorry to hear about the DSC issues.

I'm just throwing an idea out there, I'm not sure if it's possible but have you tried running an update on the DSC module through WinKFP and see if it flashes a different ZB number? Or looking into flashing a different ZB that might support manual trans?

Im not even sure they mention doing this in the manual swap but it's just an idea I had.

Best of luck and I hope everything works out in the end.

- Mike

Thanks for the reply!

Already re-flashed about three times using WinKFP and definitely have the latest ZB #. I do appreciate the suggestion though.

[Luper52]

I recommend getting ProTool as it makes the entire coding process very easy. I've also heard from 'Vehicular DIY' on his manual swap that you lose cruise control functionality when you do the swap. (I also just read this on the ProTool Facebook group while looking up the tutorial.

Vehicular DIY's video:

ProTool manual transmission swap tutorial:

Step 1) Go to Vehicle Menu > Vehicle Order > Edit

Step 2) Click the "Installed" checkbox to show currently installed options. Uncheck "205: Automatic Transmission".

Step 3) Save vehicle order to CAS and FRM.

Step 4) Let the app default code the modules affected by the change.

Step 5) Lastly, you would reset engine adaptations and clear fault codes, and you're done.

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by Luper52

I recommend getting ProTool as it makes the entire coding process very easy. I've also heard from 'Vehicular DIY' on his manual swap that you lose cruise control functionality when you do the swap. (I also just read this on the ProTool Facebook group while looking up the tutorial.

Vehicular DIY's video:

ProTool manual transmission swap tutorial:

Step 1) Go to Vehicle Menu > Vehicle Order > Edit

Step 2) Click the "Installed" checkbox to show currently installed options. Uncheck "205: Automatic Transmission".

Step 3) Save vehicle order to CAS and FRM.

Step 4) Let the app default code the modules affected by the change.

Step 5) Lastly, you would reset engine adaptations and clear fault codes, and you're done.

Appreciate the suggestions and the reply.

I’ve determined a fair while ago that this isn’t a coding related issue, and unfortunately I don’t think ProTool is going to make a difference. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve heard it’s a great product, but it doesn’t do anything I can’t already do with a cable and Standard Tools. And believe me, I’ve tried so many things at this point and have taken a deep dive into the details.

I’ve also heard about cruise control not working after a manual swap, but this should only be true in cases where clutch switch pins are bridged or other differences exist between the resultant setup in the swapped car relative to the configuration in a native-manual car. There are many people on these forums who’ve done these swaps and have fully functioning cruise, and based on what I know about the platform this makes sense.

The reason there should be no issues with cruise or DSC is because once you take the EGS out of the equation, there’s nothing fundamentally different between the automatic and manual cars with these systems. So assuming you’ve wired everything correctly (which I’ve confirmed I have) and have coded things correctly, the car thinks it’s a manual and all is well. (The DSC part number is identical whether the car is auto or manual.)

I know my posts have been long so I wouldn’t fault anyone for not reading them all, but if you’re bored and curious and feel like wasting your time, I’ve outlined my troubleshooting process in great detail.

Next step is to try a replacement DSC module. If that doesn’t work, I honestly do not know what to do next haha…

[mike5124]

Hello,

Once again here to offer another suggestion. I also did the 330i tuning and had that DME No Coding Error Code. Was able to remove it once I default coded the DME, have you default coded every module in the car? Maybe that can help?

It doesn't affect the tune at all btw. Just a suggestion.

Edit: Sorry, I misread the part where you said you already tried this.

Best of luck,
Mike

[hassmaschine]

There shouldn't be any reason to lose cruise control. It's managed by the DME, and nothing is different there between the manual/auto except coding.

Have you tried unplugging the DME from the car for a few hours, to reset the volatile memory, then plugging it back in?

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

There shouldn't be any reason to lose cruise control. It's managed by the DME, and nothing is different there between the manual/auto except coding.

Have you tried unplugging the DME from the car for a few hours, to reset the volatile memory, then plugging it back in?

Agreed. From everything I understand the only way you'll lose cruise is if you bridge clutch switch pins or do something else that wouldn't be OE.

I haven't done that. Worth a try for sure.

I've ordered a replacement DSC module, and am going to make sure my front wheel speed sensor plugs are all snug. I wish there was a way to log my wheel speed sensor data, but even with TestO up and running I cannot for the life of me figure out how. It seems I can only log DME data?? I dunno.. The fact so much of what I'm working with is in German doesn't make it any easier .

I talk about it in another thread I made in the hopes of solving this other simpler issue I'm having, the fix for which I suspect will solve all my problems.

Thanks for your continued help.

[e90yyc]

Replaced the DSC module and now I have both working cruise and a car that doesn’t spontaneously cut throttle. Very pleased.

It’s hard to believe but I think the fact this happened right after my manual swap was nothing more than coincidence.

[hassmaschine]

That's crazy. glad you figured it out!

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

That's crazy. glad you figured it out!

It’s a relief to feel like the swap is actually finished. Thanks again for your help along the way.

[TyroneShoelaces]

Hey this is a great read and I wonder if some of my problems are similar to yours. I've got issues on my wagon swap on my N54 manual swap from 328 AWD auto. I mechanically finished it a while ago and have some bugs to work out still, but I'm insanely busy with work and other life stuff lately. I could make another thread but I need to sort some stuff out first detailed here.

It was mentioned about disabling DSC input into the DME, what is the procedure for that? I'd like to see if whatever CANBUS error I'm getting is causing some throttle body misbehavior with sputtering and drive ability.

I have a few problems as I've got DSC issues swapping from DXC. My pump isn't respond in protools when I try and turn it on, and I wonder if it failed during the swap, or when the donor vehicle was crashed like yours did. I haven't swapped all my wheel speed sensors to rwd yet, but I wouldn't think that would cause the communication error. Also it's an early pump in a late model car.

[e90yyc]

TyroneShoelaces Thanks! It was a good lesson in how sometimes you just can’t explain a problem logically. I tried to be so methodical and in the end it was just a “bad” module. No further explanation; no additional information.

If there’s a way to take DSC out of the system electronically, I’m not aware of how to do that as I’d imagine it requires knowledge beyond what I have (not just coding but actual programming). But, simply disconnecting the harness connector at the module should offer you some information about whether DSC might be to blame for your issues.

I also doubt wheel speed sensors could result in canbus errors. What is your error(s) anyway?

Worth checking the compatibility of your pump. The fact you’ve done this swap would say you’re well aware of possible changes in wiring etc, so I won’t bother trying to list things that might be worth checking. But yeah—just the pump itself even. They tend to be “retrospectively” exchangeable but not the other way around. So, maybe worth finding newer one?

[TyroneShoelaces]

Originally Posted by e90yyc

TyroneShoelaces Thanks! It was a good lesson in how sometimes you just can’t explain a problem logically. I tried to be so methodical and in the end it was just a “bad” module. No further explanation; no additional information.

If there’s a way to take DSC out of the system electronically, I’m not aware of how to do that as I’d imagine it requires knowledge beyond what I have (not just coding but actual programming). But, simply disconnecting the harness connector at the module should offer you some information about whether DSC might be to blame for your issues.

I also doubt wheel speed sensors could result in canbus errors. What is your error(s) anyway?

Worth checking the compatibility of your pump. The fact you’ve done this swap would say you’re well aware of possible changes in wiring etc, so I won’t bother trying to list things that might be worth checking. But yeah—just the pump itself even. They tend to be “retrospectively” exchangeable but not the other way around. So, maybe worth finding newer one?

So in my case my speedo doesn't work, steering controls are dead, radio is out, and a pile of warnings on the screen about airbags etc. And I get a pile of errors on the DSC system. So on a awd to rwd swap the DXC module needs replaced with the DSC module. You have to repin the connector. I've done that and updated the vin in the module, but not bled the system in inpa, nor swapped all my wheel speed sensors to rwd ones. I believe my wiring to be 100% correct. I am just wondering if they would throw a fault through the abs system that propogates through the system canbus.

I read another thread about someone swapping DSC after a module and having similar issues with speedo and turn signals not cancelling.

I have a dsc module out of my 2012 335is shell I acquired. It's pretty easy to swap modules and since I still need to bleed with software maybe I'll change it before I do but I have to spend time in Newtis as the 2012 335is connector is wired different than my 2007 335 donor is.

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

There's also the possibility of disabling the DSC input into the DME, just to rule it out as an issue.

Haasmachine mentioned about disabling DSC. The car does NOT like the DSC module being unplugged. I am trying to get my tune better, the car kinda runs crappy atm. I'm not sure if its the JB4 or DSC issues rippling through. Like you I'm trying to be methodical about tracking it down, I just have limited time to work on it. I have more spare time sitting in front of a computer than available time to be in the garage. Don't want to muddy up your thread, just curious if you knew how to do this.