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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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Track Day Engine Shutdown
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10-12-2007, 10:19 PM | #23 |
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Those are all the same reasons I'm considering the TT though I haven't entirely ruled out JB1 due to the even more attractive price and lack of complaints or error codes. I know the Procede is a good product and has many satisfied customers but the two emails I sent to the sales email address over the last couple weeks have gone unanswered. This poor customer service has removed Procede from consideration. I will also note that my emails to Jon@themshop, jeff@eurobahn and Terry have been answered within hours. Now the tough part, deciding which one to get.
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10-13-2007, 08:52 AM | #24 |
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The SSTT is a no brainer. Conservative figures and a reasonable price without any problems noted. Cant go wrong with that. I'm jumping aboard. What I like about this chip is that I believe power delivery will be much more manageable than with the Procede/xede's extra power. Most of these buyers are having a hard time keeping the power to the ground. Sure, I'm for more power, but it is useless if you can't control the wheel spin. Since I don't have a Quaife, I feel the SSTT may be a better solution for now. And with less boost on this chip than with the others, it will be important to see if the oil and coolant temps increase because of the added boost over stock. Now that I have a baseline of temps to go by, this will be easy to track. And I need to get ahold of that OBDII data logger. Cheers.
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10-13-2007, 12:47 PM | #25 | |
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10-13-2007, 01:45 PM | #26 |
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10-13-2007, 02:02 PM | #27 |
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yeah but the humidity is killer and 95 in ohio in the summer is nowhere near the humidity in vegas or LA...i will take a 95 degree day in vegas any day over the same in ohio chicago or anywhere in the midwest...plus it is 60-85 in the spring fall and winter there whereas we have cold frigid winters which means we need snow tire and they don't.... i am ordering mine as we speak
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10-13-2007, 02:16 PM | #28 |
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I was not referring to the JB in my comparison. Vishnu and Active Autowerks run more boost that these two other chips. Although I have not confirmed it with the company, I was also going by previous posts indicating that the max boost pressures were around 11psi. I think this level of increase is reasonable and on the conservative side. If the JB is less, great as I am all for less boost and more power, but where do they then get their power from then? They must be manipulating other values. I am just more comfortable with the SSTT and their excellent customer service and dealer network. If all the SSTT does is increase boost (maybe they also change other values as well) this is like putting on a crank pully kit on a SC's car which is relatively safe to do.
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10-17-2007, 10:43 AM | #29 |
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OK, lets get back on track.
Here is the published data from BMW's 2007 Engine Management documentation: OIL: Engine component protection starts at 298 degrees. At 304 degrees power output is reduced and notes as "clear reduction". At 306 degrees 100% of power output reduction for air conditioning. At 312 degrees the warning light comes on (white or yellow?). The same symbol is used for oil and water: a thermometer in fluid. At 314 degrees, component protection "End @ 90%. At 316 degrees, the car is in emergency zone and torque converter clutch lockup is active. At 321 degrees the red warning light comes on. COOLANT: Engine component protection starts at 242 degrees. At 244 degrees there is a clear reduction of engine power output. At 248 degrees the white/yellow warning light comes on and 100% of power is cut from air conditioning. At 252 degrees, torque converter clutch lock up is active. At 255 degrees power output "End @ 90%). At 257 degrees, the red warning light comes on. What is very interesting about this data is that based on all of our experiences, limp home mode has always been initiated under 300 degrees oil temp. In fact, many have lost power at 290 and 295, myself included. So my thinking continues to rest with coolant temps as the main source or cause of the shut downs. And I think that the data above may just prove this. You can reason that with increased engine heat, not only oil temps go up, but coolant temps go up as well. At 290 oil temps, when my light came on (can't remember the color), you could not establish whether or not it was oil or water because the gauge symbol is the same. I will assume it was the coolant temp warning light because the oil warning light does not come on until 312 or 321 degrees. And I don't think the oil guage is that far off of calibration or accuracy. So it must be the coolant warning light that came on, and if it was, according to the data above, it came on at 248 or 257 degrees. I will assume that since it was the first light that come on, it was the 248 degree temp warning, In addition, I did not have complete power loss. The car was drivable, but not as fast, as I backed off for a lap. So there you have it. My analysis of the problem and conclusion that we have a coolant overheating problem with the car, not an oil cooling problem, although we need to address bringing down the oil temps as well. I believe reb03 had some good data from his OBD data logger that also shows coolant temps exceeding 240 degrees. Maybe he can post a link to those here, or just repost the info within this thread for consistance of topic. |
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10-17-2007, 11:53 AM | #30 | |
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So if coolant is truly expected to be the main culprit, what are our options for remedy? Does water wetter really work enough to make a real difference?
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10-17-2007, 12:23 PM | #31 |
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It should help...I am gonna get some and try. I used water wetter on my race car before..so I am comfortable with it.
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10-17-2007, 01:01 PM | #32 |
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Coolant temps are definitely a problem as well I'm sure. The best way is to upgrade the radiator of course, but I don't know how well that would work. Living in CA I wouldn't mind going with a real low mix of anti-freeze because of the mild temps. Depending on the mixture it can be a little better at cooling, along with WW.
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10-17-2007, 03:38 PM | #33 | |
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In the chart above you can clearly see where the car goes into limp home mode. It's the highest point where the coolant topped out before the ECU reduced power followed by a sharp decline in the coolant temp. This decline is associated with my pulling into the pits. Last edited by RMRC; 10-24-2007 at 09:14 AM.. |
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10-17-2007, 03:47 PM | #34 | |
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Now the 335d might have a larger capacity or might have an extra core but I don't have that info. nor do I know if it'll be a direct fit. Most BMW radiators have a 2 core design but M models like the E46 M3 has a 3 core design. |
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10-17-2007, 09:50 PM | #35 | |
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10-17-2007, 10:09 PM | #36 | |
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Edit: the CarChip does record intake temps but I don't have them from this day at Big Willow. |
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10-17-2007, 11:05 PM | #37 | |
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10-18-2007, 10:59 PM | #38 |
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Run one bottle of water wetter per system fill and use DISTILLED water. Deleting coolant will ultimately produce the lowest temps, but it would be wise to use a small amount of coolant to prevent the heater core from freezing, and its anti-corresive properties. I would use no more than an equal portion of antifreeze to water wetter.
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10-18-2007, 11:27 PM | #39 | |
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Brisk: thanks for the DIY. I added my own twist to the install. I was able to wedge both arms down there some how which helped a ton. I held a small flathead screwdriver in the left hand and inserted the end into the detent of the plug while I pried the clip up with my fingernail. The plug popped right out. The whole install took about 2mins. |
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10-30-2007, 01:32 AM | #40 |
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Here are the conversions from degrees C to F:
100c = 212.0f 105c = 221.0f 110c = 230.0f 115c = 239.0f 117c = 242.6f Engine component protection starts 118c = 244.4f Clear reduction of engine power output 120c = 248.0f Yellow warning light 122c = 251.6f Torque converter clutch lock up 124c = 255.2f 90% reduction in power 125c = 257.0f Red warning light I am currently monitoring coolant temps on the street. They average between 91c -106c depending on how warm the motor is. I need to take temps for the rest of the week in different gears and different speeds and compare with oil temps. I will keep you all posted. Will be at WSIR on the 14th and will record temps there as well. |
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