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Rogue Engineering rear toe arms review
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11-27-2011, 05:29 PM | #23 | |||
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Reducing deflection in the rear suspension does not always have a noticeable effect on on-center feel. For examples of this, I give you the M3 subframe bushings, rear guide link, and rear wishbone link. Quote:
If you were to say, for example, that it feels as if there is less play, or less dead zone, in the steering at or near center -- then I would know what you're saying. If you were to say there is some (more) wiggling and writhing of the steering wheel, on center, at 110 mph -- then I would know what you're saying. If you were to say, the car reacts faster to initial steering inputs (short form: "faster turn in") -- then I would know what you're saying. It's your description of what you actually observed, as opposed to what you deduced, that I wanted to elicit from you. Quote:
It sounds like you did change the rear arms first, without the M3 subframe bushings, and were not satisfied with the result, at least on the race track but maybe on the road as well.
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2007 328i ZSP. M3 suspension: custom valved Bilstein shocks, Hyperco race springs, M3 lower control arms front and rear, M3 sway bars, and M3 subframe bushings. E46 front guide supports. Euro tail lights.
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11-27-2011, 05:36 PM | #24 |
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Thanks. Sounds really good. I think you have the other M3 rear links, but I will try just the toe arm first.
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2007 328i ZSP. M3 suspension: custom valved Bilstein shocks, Hyperco race springs, M3 lower control arms front and rear, M3 sway bars, and M3 subframe bushings. E46 front guide supports. Euro tail lights.
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11-27-2011, 09:04 PM | #25 |
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You already replaced the most important rear link; this would be next. I doubt you'd need the M3 upper link and guide rods unless you're experiencing rear wheel hop under hard acceleration..
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11-27-2011, 10:41 PM | #26 | ||
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Answered your question? Yep.
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Name: Blanca | 07 E92 | AW-Blk | ZSP | Alcon BBK | M3 Bits | VM RR Links | Koni | UUC Sways | V5 | Dinan CAI | ETS IC | Fge DV | ER CP | Cyba | Raden. Exh | Mod Step | Trunk Drawer | Perf LED Wheel | Illum Dr Sills | IS Shifter | Parrot | Philps D1S | 6000k fog | MTECH RR | CSL Trunk | Aero | Roof Spoiler | PSS on BBS RS-GT 19s
Last edited by Thumperx; 11-29-2011 at 07:53 PM.. |
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11-27-2011, 10:52 PM | #27 | |
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I have felt what seemed like toe out on the outside rear wheel. I was in a sweeper turn and applying moderate throttle. Tires weren't complaining, and somehow it didn't feel like slip. It was very creepy.
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2007 328i ZSP. M3 suspension: custom valved Bilstein shocks, Hyperco race springs, M3 lower control arms front and rear, M3 sway bars, and M3 subframe bushings. E46 front guide supports. Euro tail lights.
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11-27-2011, 11:25 PM | #28 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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2007 328i ZSP. M3 suspension: custom valved Bilstein shocks, Hyperco race springs, M3 lower control arms front and rear, M3 sway bars, and M3 subframe bushings. E46 front guide supports. Euro tail lights.
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11-28-2011, 12:01 AM | #29 |
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Neither am I.
One thing I can highly recommend is joining NASA and start going to Thunder Hill or Infineon race tracks since you're local guy. It's nothing but a great times and a great way to sort out the suspension.
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Name: Blanca | 07 E92 | AW-Blk | ZSP | Alcon BBK | M3 Bits | VM RR Links | Koni | UUC Sways | V5 | Dinan CAI | ETS IC | Fge DV | ER CP | Cyba | Raden. Exh | Mod Step | Trunk Drawer | Perf LED Wheel | Illum Dr Sills | IS Shifter | Parrot | Philps D1S | 6000k fog | MTECH RR | CSL Trunk | Aero | Roof Spoiler | PSS on BBS RS-GT 19s
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11-28-2011, 02:43 PM | #30 | |
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I wanted the car to handle as good as a M3. Springs/shocks/M3 arms all round, subframe, toe links, sways and LSD in retrospect should have all been done at the same time. I wanted the car to be solid and rid myself of the understeer that I believe to be very excessive. When I did the Dinan stage 3 - I did the front M3 arms at the same time and then the rear end was all wobbly. The LSD, rear bar, rear M3 arms when on after that and it was a massive step in fixing this - but it still wasn't right. The toe arms now have this under control. All of this to have the massive power I have now to go in a straight line where I point it... like the M3 does. Looking at the 335i stock parts coming off this car, I can't believe it went straight stock.... everything is rubber.... I look at the mods that Aplina has done, it doesn't suprise me he has done the signifcant amount of mods he has because he is on the track. WHEN I go on the track, I will need to do a lot more - oil coolers, tires, brakes....
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11-28-2011, 08:02 PM | #31 | ||
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Here's an example of the OEM vs VM links. Plus, the OEM link looks like complete garage. The M3 links look more proper.
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Name: Blanca | 07 E92 | AW-Blk | ZSP | Alcon BBK | M3 Bits | VM RR Links | Koni | UUC Sways | V5 | Dinan CAI | ETS IC | Fge DV | ER CP | Cyba | Raden. Exh | Mod Step | Trunk Drawer | Perf LED Wheel | Illum Dr Sills | IS Shifter | Parrot | Philps D1S | 6000k fog | MTECH RR | CSL Trunk | Aero | Roof Spoiler | PSS on BBS RS-GT 19s
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11-28-2011, 09:37 PM | #32 | |
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With the VM arms major deflections are removed. With oem arms, not only the bushings have large deflections, the arm itself is made to bow under load as well, not good for getting the power to the ground. |
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11-28-2011, 11:46 PM | #33 |
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The M3 toe arm -- which doesn't fit our cars. What type of joint does it have? Sealed heim joint?
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2007 328i ZSP. M3 suspension: custom valved Bilstein shocks, Hyperco race springs, M3 lower control arms front and rear, M3 sway bars, and M3 subframe bushings. E46 front guide supports. Euro tail lights.
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11-28-2011, 11:53 PM | #34 |
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11-29-2011, 12:41 AM | #35 |
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2007 328i ZSP. M3 suspension: custom valved Bilstein shocks, Hyperco race springs, M3 lower control arms front and rear, M3 sway bars, and M3 subframe bushings. E46 front guide supports. Euro tail lights.
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11-29-2011, 08:44 AM | #36 |
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With one of these toe arms, is NVH a guarantee?
Would the NVH be greater than an M3 (assuming you had already installed all the M3 bits)?
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11-29-2011, 02:47 PM | #37 |
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The NVH is ever so slight ( I have 3 out five links done). The degree of NVH produce is not a decision deterrent. The ratio of performance factor to NVH out weighs it.
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Name: Blanca | 07 E92 | AW-Blk | ZSP | Alcon BBK | M3 Bits | VM RR Links | Koni | UUC Sways | V5 | Dinan CAI | ETS IC | Fge DV | ER CP | Cyba | Raden. Exh | Mod Step | Trunk Drawer | Perf LED Wheel | Illum Dr Sills | IS Shifter | Parrot | Philps D1S | 6000k fog | MTECH RR | CSL Trunk | Aero | Roof Spoiler | PSS on BBS RS-GT 19s
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11-29-2011, 06:35 PM | #38 | |
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That said, it is about a 1 out of 10. You can notice it. The handling, well that is about an 8 out of 10. Square setup would take it to a 10.
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11-29-2011, 06:39 PM | #39 |
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don't worry about NVH. It is not a concern.
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11-29-2011, 06:44 PM | #40 |
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11-29-2011, 07:51 PM | #41 | |
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According to your sig, you have the Dinan Stage 3 springs and I'm on OEM Sport springs. Sounds like we may both be satisfied with BMW's Performance Springs. With their spring rate (Front: 195 lb/in Rear: 505 lb/in), it may be ideal balance. Harold and everyone, thoughts on this comment?
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Name: Blanca | 07 E92 | AW-Blk | ZSP | Alcon BBK | M3 Bits | VM RR Links | Koni | UUC Sways | V5 | Dinan CAI | ETS IC | Fge DV | ER CP | Cyba | Raden. Exh | Mod Step | Trunk Drawer | Perf LED Wheel | Illum Dr Sills | IS Shifter | Parrot | Philps D1S | 6000k fog | MTECH RR | CSL Trunk | Aero | Roof Spoiler | PSS on BBS RS-GT 19s
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11-29-2011, 09:03 PM | #42 | |
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The scenario is on a high-speed transition ramp from one highway (85N) to another highway (280N). The road was banking towards the left, two vehicles in front of me and positioned in each of the two lanes. There was about a 100 ft. of spacing between the two. I'm pushing 70-75, jumped to 90 into the banking bend left, splitting the two into the turn, passing them both . As I turned into banked road, I transferring weight on to the front right smoothly, turning, the rear felt solid and connected even with a surface transition (or bump) that stepped out the rear slightly. Via seat-of-the-pants and steering feedback, the unsettled moment still gave me a steering response that included sharpness and confidence about the rear end. Now, I feel a fair amount of percentage of how the rear end performed and conveyed was due to the VM linkages. Hope may explain to your question about an "experience behind the steering wheel on the one hand, and the elimination of slop behind the rear wheel".
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Name: Blanca | 07 E92 | AW-Blk | ZSP | Alcon BBK | M3 Bits | VM RR Links | Koni | UUC Sways | V5 | Dinan CAI | ETS IC | Fge DV | ER CP | Cyba | Raden. Exh | Mod Step | Trunk Drawer | Perf LED Wheel | Illum Dr Sills | IS Shifter | Parrot | Philps D1S | 6000k fog | MTECH RR | CSL Trunk | Aero | Roof Spoiler | PSS on BBS RS-GT 19s
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11-29-2011, 09:31 PM | #43 | |
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How do you know those are the spring rates for the BMW performance springs? Who knows what Dinan's rates are/they won't tell you. Sorry, went OT.
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Quaife lsd, ETS fmic, GIAC s/w, Dinan intake/exhaust/oc, Koni/M3 susp, Apex Arc 8, Mich PSS Last edited by cvc 22349a; 11-29-2011 at 09:33 PM.. Reason: edit |
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11-29-2011, 10:21 PM | #44 | |
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Because we have all of the M3 bits on, this gets transferred to the cabin. Still, then handling is superbly improved - especially high speed. Cornering feel is great now.
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Previous: 2014 BMW F32 435iX - JB4, MHD Flash, BMS Meth Kit, ER Intercooler, intake, catless DPs, KW Streets, 437M Reps with 245/35 and 275/30 Michelin PSS 4S |
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