[Ken Oath]

Originally Posted by markv123

Ken, that relay you are referring to. Where do I find it and how do I check it please?

The VTT relay is located in the E-box as represented in the previously posted video RHS of the engine bay. There is a couple of relays in the E-box for the VTT and the DME and I understand they have the same specifications and are interchangeable.

To test the relay you can remove it and use a DMM and a power supply.
On the side of the relay will be a diagram explaining which pole is NC or NO and measure the resistance/continuity with a DMM.
This video explains it:

If no power is received at the relay it's also worth checking the Power Distribution Box connected to the +ve terminal of the battery. In the video you can see the shiny bus bar which a couple of cables are connected to. The connection points have a fusible link underneath the black plastic locking clip so you can check if voltage is being supplied at that point.

[Ken Oath]

K6319 - VVT relay
K6300 - DME main relay
K6327 - Fuel injector relay
K6539 - Crankcase breather heating relay

[markv123]

Oh goodness Ken! Thank you for the info.
At hospital right now... so will be conducting these tomorrow or in the coming days.
I will report back.

If anyone else wants to chime in please feel free to do so.

[markv123]

So I was able to squeeze in some time last night to check out what was going on underneath the battery tray. Low and behold, a disgusting discovery:

Underneath the tray. Lots of dirt and even water. Ugh!:



Close up within the battery compartment:




Close up of the caps off the connectors.




Seems I have some cleaning to do.
Will go by the hardware store after work today and pick up some sandpaper to clean up the rust and some rags to clean out the battery compartment entirely.

My brother will be drilling a hole in there to allow any water from here on out to escape.

Ken, I'll also attempt to check out the relays as per your advice (thanks again).

Here's hoping this may be the culprit of my problems and I can go back to driving her again and ditch Australia's fabulous public transport system.

[markv123]

11/07/2017 update

Hi all

To keep this thread up to speed I thought I'd share some photos to provide an insight into the labour (of love?) that took place last night

Here I am squeezing my (huge =P) forearms into the awkwardly positioned cavity that is the battery compartment in the boot (trunk for all you yanks kindly helping me along). I am also using sandpaper on the cables and nuts to give them a clean too.





I also had to pull out the toy box and use screwdrivers & pick tools to push in the steel wool, sand paper and rags to rub off, take out and remove anything that was foreign in there. Corrosion, moisture, etc.




After what felt like an eternity of rubbing, fingering and contorting my body to get as deep as I could in the hole, I was at last happy with my finish. So nothing out of the ordinary there really...Ha!




The other connector that is also yearning for some rough lovin.

I'm pissed off at myself and slightly embarrassed to note down here that it took me a good 25 minutes to get the bloody (Note: bloody is good ol' Aussie slang for you yanks here. NB: Fu#king!) nut off this connector!

--- Side story ---
However let the record state, and if my brother ever reads this and thinks I left it out, so here goes;
- I was using the 12, 13 and 14mm sockets for a good 23 minutes;
- At the 24th minute my brother calls me up to see how I'm going with this cleaning task;
- I tell him of my frustration with this nut, the awkward location it is in, that it just won't bloody budge and that none of the sockets are "locking on";
- He tells me to send a photo. Which I do;
- Casually tells me that the nut is probably smaller then the one on the other connector;
- So I try the 11mm. No go. Try the 10mm and "pop";
- Just like that the most stubborn nut in the world is out in 8 seconds flat;
- So of course he proceeds with analogies and jabs directed at me for using a larger sized tool without knowing what I was doing...
- Brotherly love for you hey lol





Now as I've mentioned previously we're in the middle of a cold winter here in Australia so I half hurriedly attempted to clean the remaining connector since I lost time using the incorrect socket on it's nut.
This is the result of that cleaning before I quickly packed up, got myself out of the cold and tucked myself in for another early morning train ride to the office. Ugh!
Question: That brown residue above the connector seal. Do you think that's a water leak or from the pump for the convertible roof?




Will possibly have another attempt at cleaning that connector tonight if I get the time. And try cleaning out the battery compartment too. Before finally hooking the battery back up and seeing how she goes. Fingers crossed!


Off Topic Question: I have only recently (due to this thread) started to use Photobucket again. Any of you friendly folk know what the disclaimer that keeps popping up on my browser is? Is there another alternative to Photobucket for image hosting?

[Ken Oath]

I wouldn't drill any holes in the battery compartment but rather isolate the water ingress and repair it.

The brown residue looks like something has been spilled and the contents emptied into the battery compartment. Perhaps monitor the compartment through the remainder of winter to see if any water has entered.
There are several threads on convertible's which have suffered water intrusion.

Also to identify if any of the residue is battery acid you can use some Baking soda to see if it reacts with any acid. Mix a tea spoon in 500ml (not an exact mix) and pour it in. If battery acid is present it will react and bubbles will be produced. It's obvious when you see it happen. It's also a good way to clean any corrosion around hard to reach terminals.

[markv123]

Oh really?
Wouldn't a "drain" be a good safety measure in case it does come back even if I do find the cause of the leak.
Or is there some sort of reason why I shouldn't?

Right. Ok. Will go on the hunt for some of those threads.

Excellent. Thank you. I shall try that out.

Thanks Ken!

[markv123]

Looks like you were right Ken.
A quick google has given me a couple of things to consider and for ease of finding for myself later (and to help others if they ever use my thread as a guide) I shall paste a couple below;

Certain drain plugs in front of the rear wheels:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=864436

Something about tail lights in here:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949111

And thought I'd throw this one in here purely for the comment I will comment and paste below. Ha!:
http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/...-boot-t132229/

"Last week I heard the sound of water in the drivers side rear quarter panel. On sharp braking whilst driving down a hill with the roof down I experienced down my back what can only be described as a wave of water suitable for surfing which emitted from the gap between the inner and outer weather strips. With a torch I could see that the water was nearly full to the top and I'm sure that Jaws was in there too."

Will keep in mind the drains and the tails once my car is back up and running.

[markv123]

14 July update

Still no luck :-(

Battery compartment cleaned.
Connectors and terminals cleaned.
But no start.

When putting ignition on i can confirm that the valvetronic motor is still not turning. It just doesn't seem to be receiving enough power to run.

Could it be that the other side of the terminals are corroded too? Can i access it to clean it too?
Ken, the relay that I'm looking for? Is there anything else i need to know?
Any other ideas fellow E90ers?

Would appreciate any more help or items to check.
Thanks in advance

P.S Photobucket doesn't seem to be working for me right now so no pics yet on the above. Will add when i can load them.

[markv123]

20 July Update

Haven't been able to touch the car much lately so I've had to put up with the train, uber, etc, etc. Sigh.

In between the last update and now Ken has kindly helped me install ISTA on my laptop and it works like a charm. THANKS KEN !!!

Through Ken's assistance on the ISTA he has been able to confirm for me that:
- Codes/Error checks. Only Valvetronic problem to worry about
- DME is AOK (thank goodness!)
- Battery SOC is AOK

Meanwhile my brother and I were able to confirm that the car:
- Has the power from the battery (multimeter check, SOC check on ISTA, has also been on the trickle charger)
- Fuel pump is working. (Could “hear” the fuel pump firing. Removed the “bleeder” on the fuel rail and witnessed the fuel purging on crank, before crank and after crank. This also confirms there is fuel pressure)

One thing my brother and I are not sure on are the injectors. Is there a way to confirm if they’re firing?

Otherwise, Ken and my brother were then thinking along the same wavelength to confirm the Valvetronic code once more.

So, with my brother using the multi-meter we confirmed that there is:
- power from battery to "distributor box" on opposite side of the DME box (right hand drive model)
- power to the valvetronic motor (4 volts)
- power out of the relay (4 volts)

The voltage was a worry to us as we thought it should be higher i.e. 12v

Swapped out the relay with the DME one as per Ken suggestion, and instantly the power at the valvetronic and the relay jumped to 12 volts

Tried to start car, with the swapped relays and 2 things happened:
- car would no longer do a long crank. It would cut off after 3 or 4
- DSC error codes were flashing up on the idrive and cluster

Swapped the relays back and:
- power at the valvetronic motor and relay was even lower than 4 volts. It was hovering around 1 to 2 volts
- cranks went back to being longer cranks i.e. not shutting off on it's own
- DSC errors went away

This is the first time we've had any change to the car so hopefully this means the relay is dead and a swap to brand new relays ( I will buy 2 for the valvetronic and the DME since they are the same) will sort out the issue and get me on my way.

If it does solve the issue, is there anything I need to do? i.e. do I need to clear the codes, get the car software checked, etc???

If it doesn't work..... any suggestions?

Thanks again to all that have chimed in and especially to my brother and Ken for the extra extra extra assistance.

[PhaseP]

Looks like you found the problem, good job! It must be an electronic relay, not mechanical, I guess to give 4 volts.
Injectors on these engines work, they are simple. You can put the end of a screw driver at each injector and the handle end to your ear and listen for rhythmic clacking sound to verify they open and close to squirt fuel. But I don't think they are giving problem. Not to fire up all six would have to be not working.
The dme codes are usually right on directing where really is the problem, as was the case here too. It was power to valvetronic.

[juld0zer]

Remove your glovebox and check the junction box behind it. In the upper right hand corner, look for a burn mark roughly in the middle of that quarter section.

To proceed with further inspection, remove the T20 screws thay hold it to the frame, release the two tabs, remove the junction box electronics box, disconnect the harness in the top left, disconnect the long blower power cable near the footwell vent and tilt the JB down.

Disconnect battery and charger.
Check the fat red cable for burn marks or excessive heat.
Unplug the fat red cable from the JB by inserting a small flatblade.
Carefully examine the male terminal in the JB for arc marks etc.

One of the not-so-common symptoms for the failed B+ connection to the JB is the two valvetronic codes originally mentioned. Most cars should have been covered by a campaign. PM me your VIN and i can look into it for you.

[DaanBMW]

Originally Posted by markv123

20 July Update
[snip]
This is the first time we've had any change to the car so hopefully this means the relay is dead and a swap to brand new relays ( I will buy 2 for the valvetronic and the DME since they are the same) will sort out the issue and get me on my way.

If it does solve the issue, is there anything I need to do? i.e. do I need to clear the codes, get the car software checked, etc???

If it doesn't work..... any suggestions?

So did the 2 relays solve your issues ? Can you maybe describe what was the solution for you ?

Having the same problem after (of all things) a valve cover change - car cranks, won't start. If I disconnect the ESS it starts fine, as the DME uses the throttle as the fail safe instead of the VVT.

[markv123]

Apologies for the late reply. I did not realise there were replies in here.

Originally Posted by PhaseP

Looks like you found the problem, good job! It must be an electronic relay, not mechanical, I guess to give 4 volts.
Injectors on these engines work, they are simple. You can put the end of a screw driver at each injector and the handle end to your ear and listen for rhythmic clacking sound to verify they open and close to squirt fuel. But I don't think they are giving problem. Not to fire up all six would have to be not working.
The dme codes are usually right on directing where really is the problem, as was the case here too. It was power to valvetronic.

The DME codes it seemed were spot on, albeit in a broad way. They can lead you down a rabbit hole of sorts but in the end it’s how they are interpreted that will get you there, or eventually there, in the pursuit of a solution.

Originally Posted by juld0zer

Remove your glovebox and check the junction box behind it. In the upper right hand corner, look for a burn mark roughly in the middle of that quarter section.

To proceed with further inspection, remove the T20 screws thay hold it to the frame, release the two tabs, remove the junction box electronics box, disconnect the harness in the top left, disconnect the long blower power cable near the footwell vent and tilt the JB down.

Disconnect battery and charger.
Check the fat red cable for burn marks or excessive heat.
Unplug the fat red cable from the JB by inserting a small flatblade.
Carefully examine the male terminal in the JB for arc marks etc.

One of the not-so-common symptoms for the failed B+ connection to the JB is the two valvetronic codes originally mentioned. Most cars should have been covered by a campaign. PM me your VIN and i can look into it for you.

This junction box that I’ve seen mentioned here and there in the forums, is it worthwhile to keep one as a spare? Is there only the one that you mention behind the glovebox? I’ve seen it pop up in posts as the culprit and am wondering if I should be one day ready for it lol
When deciphering codes is the junction box a (possible) code in itself? Or is it also in the way a code is interpreted that may lead you there?

Originally Posted by DaanBMW

So did the 2 relays solve your issues ? Can you maybe describe what was the solution for you ?

Having the same problem after (of all things) a valve cover change - car cranks, won't start. If I disconnect the ESS it starts fine, as the DME uses the throttle as the fail safe instead of the VVT.

The 2 relays did solve my issue. As they are a cheap and very easy thing to do I would suggest to just to give it a go anyway. However, I did have DME codes that led me there and I also did change every sensor bar the crank sensor. Which gives me a better feeling (in my mind) regarding reliability. Even if you do not have codes yet I would still suggest changing the relays to see how you go for the reasons I mentioned before. Hope you sort it out soon, and if it’s solved by only a change of relay, then it is a cause to celebrate. That’s what I did. =)