[Efthreeoh]

Newly restyled Model Y (and 3 for that matter) is much improved in the looks department to my eyes. Still a bit modern egg to me, but tolerable. My issue is the MMI. I just don't like the giant TV screen on the dashboard. For 90% of use, why do I need a giant screen to display a map of where I am on it when I am already very familiar with the territory? I've just never understood the need. Yeah, it was new and neat 12 years ago, but now it's been overdone throughout the EV industry.

I like the Lucid approach. Screen has a lot of surface viewing area, but it's in the driver's field of view (i.e. eyes on the road) and is well integrated into the cabin. The vehicle interface screen to set up secondary settings is retractable and opens up cubby storage behind it.

And why does the politics of an auto Exec matter? I don't know the politics of Barra, Farley, Travares, Barman, Blume, Sato, Zipse, to name a few CEOs (had to look up a few of them). Who cares, it's not like the vehicle will prevent you from driving to your place to vote come election time. LOL.

[stevenopoly]

do all the people trashing tesla even ever drive one? lol...

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Brandoch

But it comes at a cost. Your soul.

Musk owns less than 13%. Car companies are publicly traded, teachers pension funds, private investors etc invest in all car companies. Give it a rest.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Get a Lucid Air Pure. 30 cubic feet of cargo and a huge back seat. If you have a BMW, the Air Pure can be had for $60,400. 420 miles of EPA range.

Lucid Air is an attractive alternative to a 5-er or 7-er, or an upgrade on Model S. I test drove them a few times. It's a luxury cruiser more than a sports car.
But if you need a long-distance cruiser, Lucid Air would be at the top of my list.

Originally Posted by x622

This is quite literally the worst financial advice I've ever seen on this forum. I challenge anyone to find something other than the E-tron for absolutely stunning depreciation

Easy - ANY Tesla!
Tesla has become the King of depreciation. And all the depreciation data points were collected before Musk lit the brand perception on fire, and took a dump on top of the aches. Which has prompted Tesla to start discounting new cars even more aggresively, accelerating depreciation of the existing cars in customers' hands.

https://www.iseecars.com/used-car-prices-study#v=202502

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

And why does the politics of an auto Exec matter? I don't know the politics of Barra, Farley, Travares, Barman, Blume, Sato, Zipse, to name a few CEOs (had to look up a few of them). Who cares...

No-one cares, unless politics starts undermining products' depreciation and demand. Once a CEO goes off the deep end into extremist conspiracy fantasy land and alienates his core customer base (and doesn't care to stop), then CEO's politics do matter. A lot.

All the other CEOs you listed are smart enough NOT to do that to their companies.
Musk isn't. And Musk isn't changing.

Tesla's brand appeal used to be the strongest in the auto industry.
Now Tesla brand has become toxic.
Anyone considering buying one should consider that:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/n...onger/3898320/

a

[Sedoy]

I was including taxes and fees, most people aren't exempt. Also, not everyone qualifies for the "Potential Savings" of $3K.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

This morning. New.

Attachment 3735906

[Sedoy]

The other half of the country actually supports Musk's politics, they’re just not into Teslas (yet?) Tesla’s prices going down is a great thing for consumers. Most EVs on the market are wildly overpriced anyway considering EV limitations, so maybe this will force other companies to lower their prices too.

Originally Posted by afadeev

...
All the other CEOs you listed are smart enough NOT to do that to their companies.
Musk isn't. And Musk isn't changing.

Tesla's brand appeal used to be the strongest in the auto industry.
Now Tesla brand has become toxic.
...

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

I was including taxes and fees, most people aren't exempt. Also, not everyone qualifies for the "Potential Savings" of $3K.

I wasn't including taxes and fees because they are locality dependent, same for any car purchase. And IF one just owns a BMW, which most of us do (for the "conquest credit) and the Air Pure is in shipment or in stock at the Lucid Gallery, in addition to the $7,500 Air Credit another $3,000 in discounts are available. I stated up front, if one is a BMW owner. All that is needed is proof of BMW ownership via a registration card that matches the address on one's license. A prospective Air buyer who is a BMW owner does not have to trade in his BMW, just merely own a BMW.

$60,475 for arguably the best EV sedan on the market.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Lucid Air is an attractive alternativfe to a 5-er or 7-er, or an upgrade on Model S. I test drove them a few times. It's a luxury cruiser more than a sports car.
But if you need a long-distance cruiser, Lucid Air would be at the top of my list.



Easy - ANY Tesla!
Tesla has become the King of depreciation. And all the depreciation data points were collected before Musk lit the brand perception on fire, and took a dump on top of the aches. Which has prompted Tesla to start discounting new cars even more aggresively, accelerating depreciation of the existing cars in customers' hands.
Attachment 3736022
https://www.iseecars.com/used-car-prices-study#v=202502



No-one cares, unless politics starts undermining products' depreciation and demand. Once a CEO goes off the deep end into extremist conspiracy fantasy land and alienates his core customer base (and doesn't care to stop), then CEO's politics do matter. A lot.

All the other CEOs you listed are smart enough NOT to do that to their companies.
Musk isn't. And Musk isn't changing.

Tesla's brand appeal used to be the strongest in the auto industry.
Now Tesla brand has become toxic.
Anyone considering buying one should consider that:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/n...onger/3898320/

a

Musk was the darling of the EV crowd until COVID and Cali Gov shut his factory down right when he was ramping up Model 3 deliveries. It set off a shit storm over Tesla receiving tax breaks from Cali Gov when Musk announced he was leaving Cali for Texas. Then the Musk hate started to play.

Remember when Tesla first dropped its pricing? That set off the EV crowd even more too. LOL

All the other manufacturers stock values are embarrassing compared to tesla and can't even come close, not even now. LOL

[Brandoch]

The Vancouver international auto show banned Tesla from being there.

[Sedoy]

In this case following your logic, you shouldn't include the $7,500 tax credit since it's dependent on individual income and other qualifications. I know that most people will qualify for $7500, just like most live in areas with sales taxes.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I wasn't including taxes and fees because they are locality dependent, same for any car purchase. And IF one just owns a BMW, which most of us do (for the "conquest credit) and the Air Pure is in shipment or in stock at the Lucid Gallery, in addition to the $7,500 Air Credit another $3,000 in discounts are available. I stated up front, if one is a BMW owner. All that is needed is proof of BMW ownership via a registration card that matches the address on one's license. A prospective Air buyer who is a BMW owner does not have to trade in his BMW, just merely own a BMW.

$60,475 for arguably the best EV sedan on the market.

[Sedoy]

Correct, due to safety concerns, because too many individuals suffering Musk-derangement syndrome became violent.

Originally Posted by Brandoch

The Vancouver international auto show banned Tesla from being there.

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by Brandoch

But, it's a Tesla.......

So, you'd rather support foreign car makers and workers (with slave labor produced batteries / parts / materials) rather than a fully U. S. company and U. S. workers?

[Brandoch]

Originally Posted by M2PDX

So, you'd rather support foreign car makers and workers (with slave labor produced batteries / parts / materials) rather than a fully U. S. company and U. S. workers?

Keep drinking the Cool-aid.

[Sedoy]

What’s wrong with that statement? The Model Y actually leads the 2024 American-Made Index, dominating with over 95% domestic content, highest among all vehicles.

Originally Posted by Brandoch

Keep drinking the Cool-aid.

[Brandoch]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

What’s wrong with that statement? The Model Y actually leads the 2024 American-Made Index, dominating with over 95% domestic content, highest among all vehicles.

87.5% please do your research. And the batteries are made in China.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

The other half of the country actually supports Musk's politics, they’re just not into Teslas (yet?)

It's more like 10-15% are aggressively pro-this or anti-that.
The remaining 70-80% of the population doesn't care all that much either way, and just wants to live their lives in relative comfort.

I don't think there is a need to speculate on whether or not Musk's flip-flop of his political orientation is good for Tesla or not. I think Tesla's sales trends in US, EU, and Asia speak for themselves.

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Tesla’s prices going down is a great thing for consumers.

It's good for consumers shopping for used Teslas.
It's terrible for consumers who already own Teslas, or are interested in buying new EVs. Thus the additional hadicap on new Tesla vehicle sales.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Musk was the darling of the EV crowd until COVID and Cali Gov shut his factory down right when he was ramping up Model 3 deliveries. It set off a shit storm over Tesla receiving tax breaks from Cali Gov when Musk announced he was leaving Cali for Texas. Then the Musk hate started to play.

If you look at Tesla's overall sales and revenue trends, especially overseas (I doubt EU and Asian customers give two sh*ts about Cali factory drama), the inflection point was 1Q'24 reporting time frame. So the trigger event(-s) hit around 4Q'23 calendar.
Long after Covid, and long before Musk's involvement in the current administration and Nazi salutes. 1Q'25 was the worst revenue and sales drop, by far, but the trend started earlier.
So other events are likely to be key causal factors.

I don't really care what those are, and don't care enough about Musk to bother researching or forming theories.
It is what it is:



https://ycharts.com/indicators/tesla...e%20year%20ago.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Remember when Tesla first dropped its pricing? That set off the EV crowd even more too. LOL

Tesla has been aggressively manipulating pricing (up and down) for years, to adjust demand to its supply capacity. It's a smart product marketing strategy, but does come at the expense of increased used-car vehicle value uncertainty. Which pissed off the rental companies (remember Hertz giving up on Teslas in its rental fleet?).

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

All the other manufacturers stock values are embarrassing compared to tesla and can't even come close, not even now.

I'm not sure what that has to do with this conversation.

Musk has publicly all but given up on TSLA as a car company, and is now pitching it as a manufacturer or FSD software (massive fail), robots (future TBD), and remote-operated "cyber"-taxis (likely B.S.).
How long he succeeds in inflating TSLA valuation bubble is not known, but when that bubble bursts, it will be a massive cluster f*ck.

None of the above helps with new Tesla vehicle sales.

a

P.S.: I no longer own TSLA stock, but do still own one Tesla car. It's a great commuter/winter beater.

[Sedoy]

It varies depending on the model and production year. I meant to type 85% for the 2024 Model Y, 87.5% is for Model 3 Performance, making Teslas the most american-made vehicles on the market by a lot. All batteries for US made Teslas are manufactured at Tesla’s Gigafactory in Nevada or Austin, Texas, otherwise, the vehicle wouldn’t qualify for the federal tax credit - it's the law.

Originally Posted by Brandoch

87.5% please do your research. And the batteries are made in China.

[Sedoy]

New Tesla prices are lower than ever because demand is currently down, why is that a bad thing for new EV buyers? Tesla has always used dynamic pricing and never promised steady MSRP increases year over year like legacy manufacturers.
And let’s not forget even if MSRP is set, dealers will always charge thousands over MSRP when demand was high (recall what was happening a few years ago?). At least with Tesla, what you see is what you pay, without the markup games.

Originally Posted by afadeev

...
It's good for consumers shopping for used Teslas.
It's terrible for consumers who already own Teslas, or are interested in buying new EVs. Thus the additional hadicap on new Tesla vehicle sales.
...

[dreamingat30fps]

Have no driven the new Y, but if it's anything like the new 3 vs the old 3 then it's probably the best Y yet.

My biggest issue with the old 3 was the suspension was on the harsh side. They totally fixed it on the new one and it's very nice now, I believe they did the same on the Y.

That being said Tesla is one of the easiest cars to test drive so go drive it and see for yourself if you like it or not.

If you do decide to get an EV I would say for a first EV go with Tesla and lease it and make sure you can charge at home.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

In this case following your logic, you shouldn't include the $7,500 tax credit since it's dependent on individual income and other qualifications. I know that most people will qualify for $7500, just like most live in areas with sales taxes.

My logic is unassailable. The $7,500 tax credit does not apply to the Lucid Air because it's MSRP is above the Federal limit of $55,000. With all applicable credits (discounts) in place, the Air Pure price (discounted MSRP) is $60,475, regardless of location. That's what I stated at the get go.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by afadeev

It's more like 10-15% are aggressively pro-this or anti-that.
The remaining 70-80% of the population doesn't care all that much either way, and just wants to live their lives in relative comfort.

I don't think there is a need to speculate on whether or not Musk's flip-flop of his political orientation is good for Tesla or not. I think Tesla's sales trends in US, EU, and Asia speak for themselves.



It's good for consumers shopping for used Teslas.
It's terrible for consumers who already own Teslas, or are interested in buying new EVs. Thus the additional hadicap on new Tesla vehicle sales.



If you look at Tesla's overall sales and revenue trends, especially overseas (I doubt EU and Asian customers give two sh*ts about Cali factory drama), the inflection point was 1Q'24 reporting time frame. So the trigger event(-s) hit around 4Q'23 calendar.
Long after Covid, and long before Musk's involvement in the current administration and Nazi salutes. 1Q'25 was the worst revenue and sales drop, by far, but the trend started earlier.
So other events are likely to be key causal factors.

I don't really care what those are, and don't care enough about Musk to bother researching or forming theories.
It is what it is:

Attachment 3736156

https://ycharts.com/indicators/tesla...e%20year%20ago.




Tesla has been aggressively manipulating pricing (up and down) for years, to adjust demand to its supply capacity. It's a smart product marketing strategy, but does come at the expense of increased used-car vehicle value uncertainty. Which pissed off the rental companies (remember Hertz giving up on Teslas in its rental fleet?).



I'm not sure what that has to do with this conversation.

Musk has publicly all but given up on TSLA as a car company, and is now pitching it as a manufacturer or FSD software (massive fail), robots (future TBD), and remote-operated "cyber"-taxis (likely B.S.).
How long he succeeds in inflating TSLA valuation bubble is not known, but when that bubble bursts, it will be a massive cluster f*ck.

None of the above helps with new Tesla vehicle sales.

a

P.S.: I no longer own TSLA stock, but do still own one Tesla car. It's a great commuter/winter beater.

I stated in the "other EV thread" that Tesla, like every manufacturer, has to adjust pricing based on demand. Simple economics. Tesla's problem is the direct to consumer sales model. Legacy manufacturers with franchise networks adjust the final selling price via incentives and discounts taken from MSRP at the dealership level, the published MSRP (number) is not adjusted.

[Sedoy]

Oh, you’re right, the $7,500 was an “Air Credit,” not the federal tax credit. It’s pretty tricky how they worded it. They got me on that one
They offer $10.5K discounts from $70K, not sure why they can't just lover MSRP to $55K and get much more sales...

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

My logic is unassailable. The $7,500 tax credit does not apply to the Lucid Air because it's MSRP is above the Federal limit of $55,000. With all applicable credits (discounts) in place, the Air Pure price (discounted MSRP) is $60,475, regardless of location. That's what I stated at the get go.