[ALPINE6SPD]

Originally Posted by BenMW

I am hoping the the Z4 coupe gets the turbo engine.... Actually Praying for it to happen.

i am 99% sure this will not happen

[chonko]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

This is what stirs my curiousity. The 3.0L turbo in the 5er would be almost as quick as the 4.8 V8. There's certainly not enough of a performance gap to justify the V8's $10k+ premium.

Not only that, but isn't the 4.0 a new-ish engine? Would BMW kill it off entirely, so soon after it's introduction? I think we will either see a delay in the introduction of the 3.0L turbo to the 5er/7er, or the 4.0L V8 will not disappear entirely but will be around in 4.0L V8-turbo form exclusively, effectively replacing the 4.8L V8 as the top executive model, 100hp below the M5.

The 4.8litre V8 will still be there, but I see them tuning the engine up close to 380 HP to make room for the 535i. The V8 will still be used in the 550i (4.8 litres V8 @ $58K MSRP) that is in direct competition with the Audi A6(4.2 litre V8 @ $55K MSRP), GS430(4.3 litre V8 @ $52K MSRP),MB E550(5.5 litres V8 @ $59K MSRP). In terms of power they all have over 300 in HP and Torque.

BMW will replace the 530i with the 535i, and the 525i with the 528i for a few reasons:
1. By replacing the 530i with the 535i, they will be responding to the GS350 that is coming, and raise the bar for the rest that are yet to respond. The new GS430 will have the IS350 engine (303 HP & 274 ft-lbs of Torque @ $44K MSRP). A 535i will provide an answer for this segment, they can keep the price below $50k and still be in business.
2. By bringing the 535i (306 HP & 300 ft.lbs of Torque) into market, they can capture some market share for people that will be looking at the GS430 because they can't jsutify the extra $7K for the 550i. The 535i will give them a close performance to the GS430(300 HP & 325 ft.lbs of Torque @ $52K), and yet cheaper than the GS430 by $2k.

I think it makes a massive business sense for the N54 engine to make it into the 5 series, and potentially a biturbo-V8 engine for the 6 and 7 series.

[chonko]

Originally Posted by ALPINE6SPD

i am 99% sure this will not happen

Me too

[chonko]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

The aluminum 4.0L V8 that powers the 540i, 640i, and 740i in most of the world? It makes 306bhp, and is mentioned like crazy in all the 3.0L Biturbo press releases, as the horespower is obviously identical. It was introduced recently, in 2005.

But that engine has been replaced with the new 4.8 litres V8 that now powers the 550i,650i and the 750i.

[LH1]

Originally Posted by ALPINE6SPD

i am 99% sure this will not happen

I heard the N54 was initially headed for the Z4.

[BMW320i]

Originally Posted by LH1

I heard the N54 was initially headed for the Z4.

maybe it was "initially", but having 2 cars with only 40hp difference is somthing BMW doesnt do, they will have a conflict between the byers of the Z4 with the N54 and the byers of the //M coupe...

off course the 325 and 330i is a different story...

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by ALPINE6SPD

i am 99% sure this will not happen

If ///M division fails to develop another Motorsport straight-six, and the 4.0L V8 from the E90/92 M3 winds up in the next MZ4 (I'm not sure if that rumor is still circulating or not) then I DEFINITELY see the Z4 getting the N54.

Until then... why shouldn't it anyway?

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by BMW320i

maybe it was "initially", but having 2 cars with only 40hp difference is somthing BMW doesnt do, they will have a conflict between the byers of the Z4 with the N54 and the byers of the //M coupe...

Actually, considering the fact that BMW doesn't expect to sell very many MZ4's at all, I don't see why they WOULDN'T dump the biturbo in there and sell it as a more mainstream model without the whole expensive ///M-treatment to better compete (pricewise) with the 350Z.

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by chonko

The 4.8litre V8 will still be there, but I see them tuning the engine up close to 380 HP to make room for the 535i. The V8 will still be used in the 550i (4.8 litres V8 @ $58K MSRP) that is in direct competition with the Audi A6(4.2 litre V8 @ $55K MSRP), GS430(4.3 litre V8 @ $52K MSRP),MB E550(5.5 litres V8 @ $59K MSRP). In terms of power they all have over 300 in HP and Torque.

BMW will replace the 530i with the 535i, and the 525i with the 528i for a few reasons:
1. By replacing the 530i with the 535i, they will be responding to the GS350 that is coming, and raise the bar for the rest that are yet to respond. The new GS430 will have the IS350 engine (303 HP & 274 ft-lbs of Torque @ $44K MSRP). A 535i will provide an answer for this segment, they can keep the price below $50k and still be in business.
2. By bringing the 535i (306 HP & 300 ft.lbs of Torque) into market, they can capture some market share for people that will be looking at the GS430 because they can't jsutify the extra $7K for the 550i. The 535i will give them a close performance to the GS430(300 HP & 325 ft.lbs of Torque @ $52K), and yet cheaper than the GS430 by $2k.

I think it makes a massive business sense for the N54 engine to make it into the 5 series, and potentially a biturbo-V8 engine for the 6 and 7 series.

You really didn't answer my question though.

We KNOW that a biturbo V8 is in the works to replace the 4.8L. Logic suggests that it'll be a 4.0L, but that remains to be seen. Whatever.

My confusion, however, has alot more to do with what will happen to the current aluminum 4.0L V8, that makes 306hp, that was introduced last year? The 3.0L biturbo is poised to replace it, but I can't see BMW just throwing a new engine away, which is why I think the biturbo V8 will be based on this unit. Then you'd have you 528i, 535i, and a biturbo 545i or something.

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by chonko

But that engine has been replaced with the new 4.8 litres V8 that now powers the 550i,650i and the 750i.

No. It hasn't. Sorry.

[LH1]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

My confusion, however, has alot more to do with what will happen to the current aluminum 4.0L V8, that makes 306hp, that was introduced last year?

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but what 4.0L V8 was introduced last year?
What BMW vehicle in the current US lineup has this engine?


The last BMW in the US with a 4.0L V8 was the E34 540i (93-95) with the infamous M60B40 V8.

I could be wrong here, but maybe someone can double check me.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by LH1

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but what 4.0L V8 was introduced last year? What BMW vehicle in the current US lineup has this engine?

The last BMW in the US with a 4.0L V8 was the E34 540i (93-95) with the infamous M60B40 V8.

I could be wrong here, but maybe someone can double check me.

No, he's absolutely correct (Although he did mention a 640i which does not exist to my knowledge - just 540i and 740i).

www.bmw.com will have the details for the curious. Or just go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N62

You all have to remember that in much of the world the german luxury makes offer two V8s. In the US we usually only get the larger one. BMW has the 4.8L and 4.0L, Audi the 4.2L and 3.7L, Mercedes the 5.5L and 4.6L, and even Jaguar has a 4.2L and 3.5L.

The small V8s appear to be on the edge of extinction. Can't keep up with the large sixes anymore - a trend we owe the Japanese for starting. I suspect that BMW will be the first to abandon their small V8 offering, although it might not happen as early as MY2008. I could see the V8 and turbo six coexisting for a year or two.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

My confusion, however, has alot more to do with what will happen to the current aluminum 4.0L V8, that makes 306hp, that was introduced last year? The 3.0L biturbo is poised to replace it, but I can't see BMW just throwing a new engine away, which is why I think the biturbo V8 will be based on this unit. Then you'd have you 528i, 535i, and a biturbo 545i or something.

There won't really be anything thrown away since the 4L is just another iteration of the N62. Sure, each displacement requires some of its own R&D but this will have been budgeted such that there is suitable ROI even if the engine only lasts a year or two.

I think the bi-turbo V8 will probably use elements of the N62 but be a significantly different more just like N54 is v.s N52 and M54. It will probably have HPI too.

[zamboni]

Originally Posted by BenMW

I am hoping the the Z4 coupe gets the turbo engine.... Actually Praying for it to happen.

I don't think the bi-turbo will make the Z4 line up then no one would buy the M version Z4.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by zamboni

I don't think the bi-turbo will make the Z4 line up then no one would buy the M version Z4.

It is likely that it will once the M Z4 gets the new M V8. However, this could possibly have to wait until the next generation of the car.

[BMW320i]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

Actually, considering the fact that BMW doesn't expect to sell very many MZ4's at all, I don't see why they WOULDN'T dump the biturbo in there and sell it as a more mainstream model without the whole expensive ///M-treatment to better compete (pricewise) with the 350Z.

didnt get ur point
r u saying that BMW might remove the Z4M and release a version with the N54 engine??
what im saying is that u cant have the Z4M and the Z4 with N54 at the same time, if there's a big gap between the prices, then bye bye Z4M potential buyers

but it would me cool 2 have the Z4 with the N54, and put the E92 M3 engine on the M coupe

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by BMW320i

didnt get ur point
r u saying that BMW might remove the Z4M and release a version with the N54 engine??
what im saying is that u cant have the Z4M and the Z4 with N54 at the same time, if there's a big gap between the prices, then bye bye Z4M potential buyers

but it would me cool 2 have the Z4 with the N54, and put the E92 M3 engine on the M coupe

NO. What I'm saying is that the Z4M is not expected to sell well. Period. It is such a focused car, that the targetted demographic is very, very small.

BMW is saying bye-bye to potential customers the moment they take a test drive. The people who buy this car already know they want it, and that's that. It's a totally different beast when compared to the regular Z4 models that compete with the 350Z and SLK, the same way your typical 3-Series buyer is NOT in any way/shape/form the typical M3 buyer - in fact, even moreso with the Z4/MZ4 discrepancy.

I am ALSO saying that I think in BMW's eyes, it would not be so far-fetched to dump the biturbo engine in the Z4 (which would not be very expensive to do since it already fits the N52) and sell it as a much more mainstream model, less expensive than the MZ4 and all-together more livable, targetted more to the 350Z/SLK audience.

Basically, the two models would not compete, and seeing as how BMW doesn't expect to sell alot of MZ4's to begin with and taking into account the biturbo's much higher profit-potential, they wouldn't really be compromising sales.

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

There won't really be anything thrown away since the 4L is just another iteration of the N62. Sure, each displacement requires some of its own R&D but this will have been budgeted such that there is suitable ROI even if the engine only lasts a year or two.

I think the bi-turbo V8 will probably use elements of the N62 but be a significantly different more just like N54 is v.s N52 and M54. It will probably have HPI too.

That's very true. Thank you, this clarifies alot of things, at least in my mind. And here's to HPI proliferating. Should be quite interesting.

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

No, he's absolutely correct (Although he did mention a 640i which does not exist to my knowledge - just 540i and 740i).

www.bmw.com will have the details for the curious. Or just go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N62

You all have to remember that in much of the world the german luxury makes offer two V8s. In the US we usually only get the larger one. BMW has the 4.8L and 4.0L, Audi the 4.2L and 3.7L, Mercedes the 5.5L and 4.6L, and even Jaguar has a 4.2L and 3.5L.

The small V8s appear to be on the edge of extinction. Can't keep up with the large sixes anymore - a trend we owe the Japanese for starting. I suspect that BMW will be the first to abandon their small V8 offering, although it might not happen as early as MY2008. I could see the V8 and turbo six coexisting for a year or two.

Thank you. And yes, I made a mistake with my assumption; There is no 640i. Sorry 'bout that.

[NFS]

Things are a bit different in the UK ...

We still have a 540i, but the 545i has been replaced by the 550i as in the USA.

Both are V8's.

These cars are a bit specialist over here given the petrol prices.

There will be huge demand here for a 535i, but some people will still want a V8.

I think there will be room for a 535i, 540i and 550i. But as suggested above the bi-turbo technology is likely to be applied elsewhere, so a 555i is not out of the question (which would really piss off AMG)

[BMW320i]

damn!! 555i ??!! that would b one big beast!!!!!

if that happens, they must upgrade the M5

[NFS]

Originally Posted by BMW320i

damn!! 555i ??!! that would b one big beast!!!!!

if that happens, they must upgrade the M5

So it's all good then

So long as AMG keep churning out supercharged monsters - then BMW have a reason to boost their cars.