[need4doors]

Originally Posted by AU335i

interesting you say that... have you heard of a failed VRSF downpipe yet? or are you speculating because the fact they are cheaper, that they will automatically eventually fail?

what makes AR $400 more reliable?

The VRSF down pipes come with a lifetime warranty. It would be a hassle to change out again if they did fail, but they do have the warranty.

[BMWsky]

Originally Posted by M///1rider

...The reason its cheaper is because of the way they are manufactured im sure their will be less problems in a thousand dps for AR and VRSF might have a little more problems.

With that said they both do the same thing, full 3" to 2.5 taper, but VRSF kinda took ARs design, either way can go wrong but i would pay the extra 400 for reliability. IMO

Everyone loves VRSF

But its between
-AR
-CPE
-AKRA
-VRSF

VRSF have a lifetime guarantee, why would you pay an extra $400?

[ar design]

Originally Posted by 135Hoser

I have AR downpipes and I don't think I'd get them again. It's damn near unacceptable if I need to stand under the car with a pry bar to move my factory midpipe over to meet up with the replacement downpipes.

Fitment was annoying and too close in a couple areas. I also don't know why they scrapped any kind of flex tubing and abandoned all factory supports.

I don't know if anyone else's downpipes has a flex section, but on these it means my whole exhaust system is going to twist with the motor. I foresee cracked flanges in the future.

Sounds like the downpipes needed to be adjusted over, a lot of people have this issue if the downpipes are not aligned perfectly. Regardless, did you contact us about the problem? We always stand behind our product 100%.

Having now sold 1,000s of downpipes without a flex section or brackets, we have yet to have a single set come back for a weld or material failure. Ever.

[ar design]

Originally Posted by BMWsky

VRSF have a lifetime guarantee, why would you pay an extra $400?

The same reason people buy real Volks instead of Rotas.

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by ar design

The same reason people buy real Volks instead of Rotas.

I wonder who's sold more wheels though? Volk or Rota

On a different note, our dp's have a lifetime warranty, they cost hundreds of dollars less in comparison to any other name brand competitor and we have a little under a couple hundred sets sold in the market in the five short months we've been selling these.

The made in the USA thing is a bit silly considering we all bought German.

[E3r2E9r]

Are your downpipes made in Germany? That would likely be a good selling point. China, not so much.

[Tiago@VRSF]

I hate to jump off topic and "debate" something as simple as prejudice against a country of manufacture but I have a sweet spot for ignorance.

Almost every electronic you own came from China. I can name at least 5-6 of the most popular brands/companies here on this forum who outsource directly from China/Taiwan. If purchasing something made in the US is enough to justify spending an extra $2-300 for the same result, then maybe my words are being wasted on deaf ears.

I'd hate to de-rail the thread but I'd be happy to continue this via PM's if you'd like.

[AU335i]

Originally Posted by need4doors

The VRSF down pipes come with a lifetime warranty. It would be a hassle to change out again if they did fail, but they do have the warranty.

yeah the lifetime warranty is awesome but what I was getting at was just because they are cheaper why is it automatically assumed they are going to fail or be of less durabilty as the competition?

havent heard of one failed case so until then, no body should really say anything about durability until we come across that road.

[AU335i]

Originally Posted by ar design

The same reason people buy real Volks instead of Rotas.

dont see how that is a valid argument. Comparing forged vs cast, 3 piece vs 1 piece... etc.... your paying less to receive less...


vrsf and ar seem to use the same material and yes they seem to be put together the same way... dont see where we are paying for less in this case

[GarageKeptE92]

Originally Posted by AU335i

dont see how that is a valid argument. Comparing forged vs cast, 3 piece vs 1 piece... etc.... your paying less to receive less...


vrsf and ar seem to use the same material and yes they seem to be put together the same way... dont see where we are paying for less in this case

China Labor vs US labor for the most part.

[MrRager]

all i have to say is most of these companies barely have a background so its hard to justify whos better

[ModBargains.com]

Both AR Design and aFe makes great products and it comes down to what you're most comfortable with. At the end of the day, you'll be getting more power than your stock setup!

[AU335i]

Originally Posted by GarageKeptE92

China Labor vs US labor for the most part.

end result in either case is the same... so paying $400 dollars simply because it was made in a different country doesn't seem smart to me at all.

[daemonicus]

Originally Posted by AU335i

end result in either case is the same... so paying $400 dollars simply because it was made in a different country doesn't seem smart to me at all.

bimmer guys like to pay more for stuff so they can sleep better at night dreaming about "reliability" and "craftsmanship".

go on any supra, 240, rx-7, evo, wrx, etc. forum and you'll find guys laughing at all of you when you're paying 2x as much for a product that is made the same way, with the same design standards as a product that they can get for half the price.

go buy raceland DPs and if a weld breaks in 2-3 years (which is longer than i suspect a lot of you will own your cars)...guess what? you can purchase 3 sets of those DPs for the same price as other competitors.

i guess as long as you can justify another whopping 5-10 whp for $3-$400 more, then so be it. we all make our decisions for different reasons.

[MrRager]

^^ truth

[ar design]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

an extra $2-300 for the same result

Volks > Rotas

If you can't tell the difference......

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by ar design

Volks > Rotas

If you can't tell the difference......

I've owned a couple sets of Volks in the past actually and have a set on my current Evo.

With that said, I honestly don't see how a forged 2-piece wheel is a proper comparison to our downpipes unless you guys just started forging your downpipes

If you want to associate the "best" with a price tag, we should have started at a higher price point. The only thing we both have in common with Volk & Rota are our price tags.

[M BROK3]

Originally Posted by ar design

Volks > Rotas

If you can't tell the difference......

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

I've owned a couple sets of Volks in the past actually and have a set on my current Evo.

With that said, I honestly don't see how a forged 2-piece wheel is a proper comparison to our downpipes unless you guys just started forging your downpipes

If you want to associate the "best" with a price tag, we should have started at a higher price point. The only thing we both have in common with Volk & Rota are our price tags.

[sidekick96]

Op, just buy a used set of AR downpipes, will cost you half the price and you still have the same quality and craftmanship, /thread.

[BMWsky]

Or buy a set of new VSRF DP's for the same or less as used AR's and get the same performance with a lifetime warranty.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Better yet, take off stock downpipes, sell them, and profit. (jk dont do this).

[VaDuro]

I’m in the market so I will dare to chime in here

I have not run, tested or have any biased opinion in regards to a quality downpipe but I am a consumer that would make an educated buying decision, which is why I am here.

I see a few different debates and shots being fired on the thread and it all seems subjective. The information I have seen is centered on quality, fitment, origin and price.

As a consumer, I'll open it up in that order
1. Fitment - This should be the top priority in my eyes because this will impact the effectiveness of the product
2. Price - Price is # 2 for me in the grand scheme of things, there are other mods that add up to build the 335 land rocket
3. Quality - The steel used and the assembly process is important, but is it really required to have a pipe that surpasses the rest of the BMW piping? (not proven, just a thought)
4. Sound- I for one have heard different things about the sedan and that the sound is more suppressed in a sedan, which is great because I do not want a ricer, want to keep id down to a gritty rumble in a Daily driver, but has presence when getting open.
5. Origin - Great to don the Made in USA badge, but as mentioned earlier, this is not the Ford Fusion forum and part of the reason for the price tag jump. Outsourcing the assembly of the part based on a specification happens all the time and if they can stand behind the product, all the better.
6. TCO – The total cost of ownership is also a factor when doing mods that requires wrench time, replacing a shoddy product, removing for inspection, mod sensors and fixes etc.. This is a big factor for the Xi especially because of having to drop the engine mount, which requires additional labor.

All of those things in mind, I would lean towards better price point because:
• This is not a permanent mod, realistically it will not be there for the life of the car and I would still have to get a mechanic to do the work.
• I have many different mods that are on the radar and won’t spend more on a set of pipes than the cost of my tires, unless cat back.

Part = $500-600
Installation = $300-400
O2 Fix = $75
________________________
$1,000+

Feel free to chime in with anything to help my buying decision including your best price on a Xi set of pipes.

Like I said , just going on what I have been reading, any real experiences are welcome, Trolls need not apply.