[Sgop335]

Originally Posted by stashtrey

Thanks for the info. I'm waiting on a quote from a shop that is going to give me two options...I buy the used motor msyelf and they install....or they get the motor and install and I pay them and get a warranty. #2 would be ideal.

Sorry buddy and work it out. Bmw didnt design this engine for all this high boost and certainly not for a dd.

[Jeef]

Originally Posted by Sgop335

Sorry buddy and work it out. Bmw didnt design this engine for all this high boost and certainly not for a dd.

Psh this engine was built to handle 40+ psi

[Sgop335]

Originally Posted by Jeef

Psh this engine was built to handle 40+ psi

Of course, Just read about it 44psi!

[Papa_Lion]

Damn T, that sucks brother. I really hope everything works out well for you and that quote was reasonable. I would like to know what the fuck caused it! I think you have officially scared me out of further modding the motor, and I mean that in a good way. You take way better care of your car than I do.

Give me a call sometime. Thanks again for the sick ass wheels!


*I thought bottom end/pistons were forged?

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by Sgop335

Sorry buddy and work it out. Bmw didnt design this engine for all this high boost and certainly not for a dd.

Boost pressure didn't split that piston; it's a weird failure TBH. Part of me thinks the rod in that hole buckled, causing the piston to split at the crown.

Usually detonation shows in the rings; it's hard to split a piston just with "boost". Stock turbos can't move enough air to impart that type of pressure in-cylinder.

If OP was way under-advanced maybe things got too hot. If he was over-advanced pressure could have gotten up there I guess. Weird failure and a bummer to see.

Originally Posted by Papa_Lion

Damn T, that sucks brother. I really hope everything works out well for you and that quote was reasonable. I would like to know what the fuck caused it! I think you have officially scared me out of further modding the motor, and I mean that in a good way. You take way better care of your car than I do.

Give me a call sometime. Thanks again for the sick ass wheels!


*I thought bottom end/pistons were forged?

Crank and Rods are forged; Pistons are a high quality cast.

Pistons 200% are the weak spot over 700WHP. Not much evidence the OE rods or crank are getting pissed off due to power yet (provided good tuning).

[BQTuning]

Two theories

If the knock tables were modified (which cannot be done with COBB) and their was too much advanced ignition timing based on the load to rpm "specific range targets" then thats your answer. This is only assuming the knock tables were modified as logs will show up perfectly healthy

If the knock tables were not modified and their was too much under-advanced ignition timing based on the load to rpm "specific range targets" then things will get extremely hot especially with no EGR compensation

Too much ignition timing ? Well the first thing comes to mind is too much adv timing in the high RPMs. No, not so at all. There could have been too much timing in the low - midrange RPMs that some tuners modify to increase torque output (based on fuel) in the low to mid end RPM/Load target ranges. Not all cars like this............

The majority of all failed N54 engines were caused by too much advanced ignition timing, injector failure, AFR too lean, and the minority too much meth being prayed leading to waterlog

Notice boost is not one of them (not yet) this ain't a Subaru or Mazda . You are more likely to blow your stock turbos before they can cause any type of engine damage due to high boost.

[MiamiM3]

Originally Posted by stashtrey

Thanks for the info. I'm waiting on a quote from a shop that is going to give me two options...I buy the used motor msyelf and they install....or they get the motor and install and I pay them and get a warranty. #2 would be ideal.

Can you PM me the shop name for future reference?

[optigrab]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Boost pressure didn't split that piston; it's a weird failure TBH. Part of me thinks the rod in that hole buckled, causing the piston to split at the crown.

Usually detonation shows in the rings; it's hard to split a piston just with "boost". Stock turbos can't move enough air to impart that type of pressure in-cylinder.

If OP was way under-advanced maybe things got too hot. If he was over-advanced pressure could have gotten up there I guess. Weird failure and a bummer to see.

Crank and Rods are forged; Pistons are a high quality cast.

Pistons 200% are the weak spot over 700WHP. Not much evidence the OE rods or crank are getting pissed off due to power yet (provided good tuning).

I thought just the crank was forged? I looked in the engine mechanical I cant seem to find anything that says either forged or cast for the rods. The people with the bent rods make me think they are cast....

The connecting rods on all of the NG6 engines have been stiffened with a thicker beam on the rod. This design has also been in production on the N52 since 6/06.

Crankshaft
The cast iron crankshaft is retained for the N52KP and N51. To accommodate the increased power output of the N54, the crankshaft is forged steel.

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by optigrab

I thought just the crank was forged? I looked in the engine mechanical I cant seem to find anything that says either forged or cast for the rods. The people with the bent rods make me think they are cast....

Rods are forged; pistons cast

[shushikiary]

I know in the spxx e60 tune he is running 16:1 afr from 2000 to 3000 rpm range between 20 and 60 requested load. He also has the intake vanos in that range setup to force valve overlap to allow some exhaust gasses to go back up into the intake, all for mpg savings.

I don't know if any of that is enough to cause what we see, but the lean afr would for sure raise temps.

Knock tables in his tune appear to be stock.

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by shushikiary

I know in the spxx e60 tune he is running 16:1 afr from 2000 to 3000 rpm range between 20 and 60 requested load. He also has the intake vanos in that range setup to force valve overlap to allow some exhaust gasses to go back up into the intake, all for mpg savings.

I don't know if any of that is enough to cause what we see, but the lean afr would for sure raise temps.

Knock tables in his tune appear to be stock.

The 15.X : 1 lean cruise at low load/RPM with E60+ is not going to cause enough EGT to do anything, myself and a lot of other people have run AFR like this for years. If you want to see what ruins engines, see VTTs most recent thread on bimmer.boost

All of the maps that I post are open bins (open to audit by anyone) Todd is a smart guy and reviewed his logs and there were no issues when this occurred. Condolences to him =/

[shushikiary]

Yea I run a modified version of your E60 map my self, that's how I noticed that.

I just didnt know how much the lean conditions increase the EGT by and if it would be enough to affect this or not, so I just brought it up so someone could do what you just did, and say you didnt think it increased the temp enough to be an issue, or conversely say it is if that was possible.

[optigrab]

Originally Posted by stashtrey

Thanks for the info. I'm waiting on a quote from a shop that is going to give me two options...I buy the used motor msyelf and they install....or they get the motor and install and I pay them and get a warranty. #2 would be ideal.

Do you plan on tearing your engine apart?

I'm curious to know if you have a bent rod

[Pure Turbos]

Looks like EGT to me

[dsocold]

my n54 in my 135i went south as well 2 years back due to excessive cylinder wall damage, car was stock btw.

[stashtrey]

Originally Posted by MiamiM3

Can you PM me the shop name for future reference?

I won't share their name as their price was outrageous. Got north of $10K with a used 65K engine. $4500+ in labor!? F that.

I now have the car at EU Tech in Sacramento. Straight shooters and Luis Soros is an old school BMW expert from Europe. Great guy.

Was thinking about rebuilding but after a lot of research it was clear the cost would far exceed dropping a solid, low mileage used motor in there.

Ordered an engine yesterday with 50K on it... complete with turbos. Ships Monday. $3750 + shipping. Donor car had a giant tree fall on it and collapsed the roof. Got video of the car starting, engine revving, idling etc.

I'm pretty confident it will work out but let me tell you... having to source and make a move on a used engine is no fun at all. You read of all these horror stories of people putting one in and getting knock, smoke etc right away.

I worked to find a motor that was in the car just 6 months ago, stored indoors and with low mileage. The car was well kept and clean aside from the smashed in roof! Lot's of pics, video and the wrecker/salvage yard has a 99.6% feedback rate on eBay with over 5500 transactions. Great reviews on google/yelp as well. At some point you just have to roll the dice.

Originally Posted by optigrab

Do you plan on tearing your engine apart?

I'm curious to know if you have a bent rod

I am absolutely keeping the engine and I'll be pulling it apart in my garage. Don't know if the cylinder wall is toast and very curious about that. I will document everything with high res photos. It'll be interesting to see what the rest of the pistons look like... as well as the rest of the lower end, valves cylinders etc.

I'll make a thread when I get the time to tear into it. If the cylinders are good I will likely take it on as a long term project. Slowly work on it to rebuild.

Was thinking about rebuilding but after a lot of research it was clear the cost would far exceed dropping a solid, low mileage used motor in there.

Thanks to everyone for all the input and well wishes. It's been a nightmare but I can see the light and hopefully will be back in the car in less that a couple weeks. Won't be tuning it any time soon.... to freaked out. May have some parts for sale so keep an eye out!

[stashtrey]

Well....nearly 2 months later I should be getting my car back Wednesday. What a nightmare.

Got a used engine with 50k on it. Engine had salt residue all over the block but otherwise solid. Swapped my turbos over which only had 20k on them. Swapped other stuff like water pump, Tstat, valve cover, OFHG, flywheel, injectors etc. All new seals, gaskets and o-rings for misc parts.

Engine had pretty caked up valves so I had them walnut blast.

They're supposed to be putting it in the car tomorrow and then button it back up, fluids etc and hopefully I will get her back the next day.

Hard to believe how long I've been without the car. Been driving a Mazda 5 minivan rental so getting back into mine will be quite a feeling.

I have some pics of the car undone, tranny out, both engines etc. Will post them up later.

$9k later.... $4150 engine, $3900 labor/parts, $1k injectors, plugs, PCV etc.

Rental $750.

My ass hurts.


Just checking in in case anyone was curious!

Peace.

[NoSlow5oh]

^Why I just got a Route 66 warranty.

[stashtrey]

Originally Posted by NoSlow5oh

^Why I just got a Route 66 warranty.

Yeah...wish I'd gotten one is am understatement!

[Alex09_335]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

Two theories

If the knock tables were modified (which cannot be done with COBB) and their was too much advanced ignition timing based on the load to rpm "specific range targets" then thats your answer. This is only assuming the knock tables were modified as logs will show up perfectly healthy

If the knock tables were not modified and their was too much under-advanced ignition timing based on the load to rpm "specific range targets" then things will get extremely hot especially with no EGR compensation

Too much ignition timing ? Well the first thing comes to mind is too much adv timing in the high RPMs. No, not so at all. There could have been too much timing in the low - midrange RPMs that some tuners modify to increase torque output (based on fuel) in the low to mid end RPM/Load target ranges. Not all cars like this............

The majority of all failed N54 engines were caused by too much advanced ignition timing, injector failure, AFR too lean, and the minority too much meth being prayed leading to waterlog

Notice boost is not one of them (not yet) this ain't a Subaru or Mazda . You are more likely to blow your stock turbos before they can cause any type of engine damage due to high boost.

If the car were to have increased EGR temps due to low AFR would the oil temp still be sitting in the regular position a few notches below half?

Wondering if this can be somehow indirectly monitored for preventive measures to ensure damage is not done to the block using the stock guage pack or one of the JB4 hijack guages?

[montegokid94]

Must suck living out in the boonies. I personally know two people that did everything for under $5k including a used engine and labor at really good shops.

Hope everything works out well for you tomorrow

[stashtrey]

Originally Posted by montegokid94

Must suck living out in the boonies. I personally know two people that did everything for under $5k including a used engine and labor at really good shops.

Hope everything works out well for you tomorrow

I live in Sacramento. I have an XI as well so that raises up the labor/time. Honestly....I had a tough time finding a shop interested in doing it. The guys doing the work are pros and we are taking all steps to freshen things up. Engine is low mileage with 6 months warranty. Also spent a good chunk on parts and misc while diagnosing. 4 frigging tows in 2 weeks!

I'm sure I could have found an independent on craigslist etc to do the work on the side but I really wanted to use a shop I am familiar with that has a solid history and good reviews.

Definitely hurts to have to spend so much but I really had no choice.


Thanks for the kind words!