[Seminole]

Originally Posted by methodtim

Stop your whining. Do you realize that everyone, and I mean everyone, in other countries pays significantly more for BMW's than Americans do? Try looking through some of the threads where Europeans are paying the equivalent of 100k for a 3 series. I believe it's about the same price in Japan as well. There's also this little thing going on called a recession. You might want to pay attention to it. Our economy is in the toilet and so is our currency.

You CANNOT, I repeat, CANNOT do a direct currency conversion and compare the prices of a car in two different markets. Each market is completely different. Take Australia. A 325i costs around $75,000AUD. Converted to USD it is about $60,000USD. OMG LOOK AT HOW MUCH THEY HAVE TO PAY!!111!!!! Right? Just wait a minute though, the AVERAGE per person income in Australia is $60,000AUD or about $1133AUD per week. Convert that to USD and it is something like $48,318USD. The average HOUSEHOLD (Whole family put together) income in the US was around $44,000. The 325i was the cheapest BMW here in the US. In Australia they have 3 different 3 series models below it that cost less money.

Lets use Germany as another example. I can't read German worth a damn, but I was able to find the Konfigurator. A 2009 325i (No where else seems to have a 328, so I picked the next closest thing) in Platinum Bronze came out to right around $40,000EU with options. Well my MSRP was $39,850ish on my 2008 328i. But when you try the failed direct currency conversion tactic, that $40,000EU car is now $56,552USD!

You cannot use direct currency conversions because it doesn't show the value of that money in the other country. The exchange rate could be shit and cause the car to be much much more in USD. Lets make up a fake country called BMWLAND. In BMWLAND a 328i costs, lets say, $60,000BMWD. The exchange rate to USD is 1 BMWD = 2 USD. So that car would cost $120,000USD!!! Holy shit do we have it good! But wait. I think I just found something... The Average salary in BMWLAND is $65,000BMWD. Wait, converted to USD that means they make $130,000USD a year! OMG THEY ARE RICH! See why direct currency conversion doesn't work?

Oh and another reason it is OK for us to complain about the US pricing. We don't live in those other countries, we live here.

[BMWI6]

Originally Posted by new2the3

A few things I wanted to point out. USA is BMW's largest market by far, just based on volume they can sell the car for much cheaper than other countries. Secondly, a lot of the high prices in other countries are not because of BMW, but because those countries have a ridiculously high import tax. Lastly, if you live in one of those countries no one is making you pay 100k for a 3 series and no one is making you be there. Anyone who can afford to pay 100k American for a 3 series has the means to move to the U.S. if they wanted to and pay half the price.
The 1 series is the new 3, and the 3 series is the new 5, IMO.

Fianlly someone understands why people pay more in other countries, some ppl actually think BMW is making like 100k in a 3 series in other countries.

[ATSR]

The price for a new E90 335i in Brazil is $170,000 USD

The price for a new E92 M3 in Brazil is $235,000 USD

Not to mention that they have to pay taxes each year based on the value of the car.

Stop bitching about the prices of BMWs in the US. Go buy a Honda, a Toyota or a Kia instead.

Edit: Regarding the comment from Seminole above, the salaries in Brazil are on par with the rest of the 3rd world countries. So when you factor how much money people make and compare it to how much it costs to buy a car, then the difference will be EVEN BIGGER.

[stressdoc]

Go price an Audi for the same sticker shock.

Bottom line is that the USA economy and the purchasing power of the US consumer has been in a tailspin. We are about 10 trillion in debt (more than double what it was when Bush got elected on a platform of fiscal responsibility!?), and it's getting worse by about 2 billion a day, and that does not even include the FMae bailouts. So each citizen owes more than 32k. Each of my kids is starting out with that much national debt that they are going to have to pay (via taxes) the interest on. We have been living on borrowed $, and the value of our currency reflects that. F#%ing politicians try and make themselves look good by borrowing up the a#$. I am so sick of the "I will lower your taxes more than the other guy" mantra. And "Drill baby drill". What shortsighted crap. No farmer would treat their land this way, nor an owner of a family business.

My apologies for the rant.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Go price an Audi for the same sticker shock.

Bottom line is that the USA economy and the purchasing power of the US consumer has been in a tailspin. We are about 10 trillion in debt (more than double what it was when Bush got elected on a platform of fiscal responsibility!?), and it's getting worse by about 2 billion a day, and that does not even include the FMae bailouts. So each citizen owes more than 32k. Each of my kids is starting out with that much national debt that they are going to have to pay (via taxes) the interest on. We have been living on borrowed $, and the value of our currency reflects that. F#%ing politicians try and make themselves look good by borrowing up the a#$. I am so sick of the "I will lower your taxes more than the other guy" mantra. And "Drill baby drill". What shortsighted crap. No farmer would treat their land this way, nor an owner of a family business.

My apologies for the rant.

Great post.

[rambalu80]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

I just said the same thing today about the $4,000 increase. It is a big increase compared to other makers but it's understandable. With the rising costs and the falling dollar value, BMW must increase the price in order to keep it afloat.

If you hadn't noticed, the USD has been gaining against the Euro. It is better than where it was in January 2008. Click here!

[d_crome]

Originally Posted by Seminole

You CANNOT, I repeat, CANNOT do a direct currency conversion and compare the prices of a car in two different markets. Each market is completely different. Take Australia. A 325i costs around $75,000AUD. Converted to USD it is about $60,000USD. OMG LOOK AT HOW MUCH THEY HAVE TO PAY!!111!!!! Right? Just wait a minute though, the AVERAGE per person income in Australia is $60,000AUD or about $1133AUD per week. Convert that to USD and it is something like $48,318USD. The average HOUSEHOLD (Whole family put together) income in the US was around $44,000. The 325i was the cheapest BMW here in the US. In Australia they have 3 different 3 series models below it that cost less money.

Mate - before you go ahead and say that about home (yes I'm from Down Under as you yanks would say) you have to realize that our TAXATION is considerably HIGHER than yours. For that "average" 60K (which I don't know where you're getting that from, last I heard it was mid 50's) that person would be paying approximately 10%-20% MORE in taxes. However we have generous publicly funded health coverage and we don't have a guy with a cardboard sign asking for change at every intersection like I encounter here on a daily basis.

PLUS living expenses are considerably more - example, a 500ml coke will cost you $3, a pack of cigarettes will cost you over $11, a case of beer will cost you $40, a bottle of Vodka $50, a nice dinner out per person is easily over $150 - Property prices too are at Southern California levels as well.

Petrol (GAS as you say here) was $1.60 a LITRE when I was home last (approximately 4 litres to a gallon – that’s $6.40 a GALLON).

A current base model 335i will put you back around $112,000 AUS (which last month would have been around $100K US due to the near parity of the US $ and Aus $) yet the same car here would be approx $40,000 US (on the assumption of no options - add those and it gets a whole lot WORSE). That’s a markup of over 100%. An M3 will put you back $170,000. A mate just recently purchased an Audi RS4 at a "bargain" price of $170,000 - the very same car here is $66,000.

This price comparison explains the 1 series - a 135i will cost $73,000 - as you can now see, the 1 series makes sense when the comparable 335i is now $35,000 MORE.

Bottom line - the US gets a price advantage due to VOLUME sold here. However I feel that gradually market share will drop as other countries with more wealth will want BMW's product - hence keeping prices low for their American customers may not be BMW's prime concern in 5 years time.

As for anybody believing the "resurgent" US dollar is here to stay - I'd suggest you go "invest" that money on a table in Vegas rather than speculate on US currency - your odds of a good return are a lot higher!! The US is in for some serious pain that will require some extreme fiscal policy restraint in order to get it's numbers back in check. Bill Clinton fixed it last time - it can be done, just takes a little know how that’s all.

To finalize my point - CURRENT US owners of 335i's should be ecstatic over this increase - BMW just made your car worth more in resale.

USA drivers in GENERAL should be ecstatic over the prices they get!!

And to the bloke that said "if you don't like where you live then move to the US to get a cheaper car" - have you seriously even LOOKED at what it takes to immigrate to the US???!! It's not quite that simple.

Then again - good luck to anybody that wants to call Australia home - we make the US look almost easy in comparison....LOL

[Tornado65]

Originally Posted by vinlikesred

the rest of the world pays 1.5 to 2 times the amount americans pay for BMWs.

Hello...I have buy a 320D* (a version that is not exported in USA) E90 MY2009 in august and i have payed it € 40.000,00 that as about $56.400,00...

I think that i came in USA for buy a 335...the equivalent price in Italy is $ 84.600,00 about!!

*320D E90 - Turbo Engine Diesel 2000 cc. - Horsepower 177CV (182 PSI) - Torque Power 350NM - Vmax 145mph - ecc. ecc..

[Inzane]

Originally Posted by GAMEgates

isnt the 328 just as quick as the 330?
Thats what I was told...

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure a 330i (MT) is quicker than a 328i (MT).

Depending on the definition of "quick" of course... but isn't a 328i a low-6s (0-60) car, and a 330i is a mid-to-high 5s car?

[beshaw81]

I understand that the USD has been getting beat up the past year (though lately the dollar has been rallying). However, BMW is a huge company. One would think that such a large company would have FX dollar hedges, to hedge their currency exposure for the different markets they sell their products. My point is that "weak US dollar" is overplayed. It may account for a small percentage of BMW's financial hit, but the slowing economy and writedowns on the dropping residuals are just as valid if not moreso.

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by methodtim

Do you realize that everyone, and I mean everyone, in other countries pays significantly more for BMW's than Americans do? Try looking through some of the threads where Europeans are paying the equivalent of 100k for a 3 series.

After all said and done, I only paid 20% more on my 2009 3-series than an american pays for his 2009 3-series. But this is because I have avoided some taxes with some (legal) trickery, and got a $6500 discount from a German dealer (which they are willing to give anyway, its about the standard discount in Germany).

[addy85]

Originally Posted by BMW335icDDS

I'm actually really glad about the increase in price. For one, that means there will be slightly less of them on the road, and should help our resale value. Also, I like how less people can afford them because the truth is many people who have BMW's can't actually afford them.

What facts do you base your statement on? If someone buy's a BMW and can pay the monthly payment every month on time, how does that constitute them to being unable to afford the car? Because their not paying cash? Because their leasing? Your post is a biased one and doesn't have any facts to back it up

[Seminole]

Originally Posted by d_crome

our TAXATION is considerably HIGHER than yours.

You nailed part of it. What are the taxation on vehicle imports in Australia. Taxes on a new car purchase? Etc. The thing I keep trying to get across why direct currency conversions don't work is each country is different. Taxes on cars, imports, income everything is different. It is extremely naive to just take the price of the car and then use the exchange rate to compare it to any other country.

For that "average" 60K (which I don't know where you're getting that from, last I heard it was mid 50's)

I google searched Australian average income 2007. I many different numbers between 55,000-60,000. I thought I'd be generous and give you the 60

PLUS living expenses are considerably more - example, a Big Mac in Australia will cost you over $6, a case of beer will cost you $40, a bottle of Vodka $50 - Property prices too are at Southern California levels as well.

Once again re-affirms my point. Everything is country specific. Thats why you cannot directly compare prices. Take for instance gasoline. Here gas may cost $4 a gallon. In Europe it may cost $8USD or whatever it costs. That is because Europe heavily taxes gasoline. In Germany taxes add almost an extra €1.19 per liter. Thats almost and extra $6.70 (€1.19 to USD x 4) per gallon!! The only reason gas is cheaper here is because it isn't taxed as heavily. The average tax on gas in the US is $0.536. In Venezuela, where gas is under $1, it is like that because of subsidies.

Petrol (GAS as you say here) was $1.60 a LITRE when I was home last (approximately 4 litres to a gallon – that’s $6.40 a GALLON).

Well you have it lucky compared to Britain. , also see above.

Bottom line - the US gets a price advantage due to VOLUME sold here.

Like I've said, the price of a car is market specific. The car is priced at what the market can bear. There are so many factors that go into deciding what the price of a car is that you cannot just compare the price of one country to another through currency conversions. Take into account import taxes, sales tax, shipping costs, etc.

To finalize my point - CURRENT US owners of 335i's should be ecstatic over this increase - BMW just made your car worth more in resale.

Well I have a 328i

[LionRampant]

Originally Posted by lecatrache

HD radio ($350) is now mandatory when buying iDrive ($2,100) - for a total of $2,450 (compare to $2,000 before, in case you didn't want the HD Radio).

This is incorrect. HD Radio is included in the Navigation system option for no additional charge over the post-June-2008 pricing. It does not incur a $350 charge except on vehicles without Nav.



--LR

[StewtheBassman]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

To be honest, I'd say the facelifted e90 is $4,000 better than a similar '06 e90.

So true!

[dth656]

i agree w/ stressdoc's post concerning the prevailing economic questions...the recent liquidity crunch at lehman is no doubt another symptom

now, to my question. the OP was using MSRP's for his comparison. i also have an 06 e90 330i, and i believe the MSRP was about 44k w/ the options it had. However, I paid close to the invoice price. my question is if MSRP for a similar 335 is now 50k, what is the equivalent 'invoice' price (w/o accounting for dealer holdback and other incentives)?

[methodtim]

Originally Posted by lecatrache

HD radio ($350) is now mandatory when buying iDrive ($2,100) - for a total of $2,450 (compare to $2,000 before, in case you didn't want the HD Radio).

No, wrong. HD Radio is included as a no cost option when you select Nav. Check the BMW BYO.

[to_riffic]

outta the price difference it does make a difference i think....thats modding money rite there down the drain from just options!!!!

[voltron1011]

Man, I really hate when all of the foreigners (no offense) start comparing their countries price (Euro, Pound, etc), and then use the current exchange rate as their tool.
I'll say this one last time: YOU CANNOT MAKE COMPARISONS ON MARKETS BASED ON THE EXCHANGE RATE!!!!!!
Pricing is based on what the local economy is...

Here's an example:

DVD in the USA costs around $20.00 (14 Euros in exchange rate)
DVD in the EU cost around 20 Euros ($28 in exchange rate)

Average income for a Network Engineer in the US is $70,000 (49700 Euros)
Average income for a Network Engineer in Germany 70,000 Euros ($98,000)

You guys get it yet?!?!?!?

EDIT: Sorry seminole, I didn't see your post.

[addy85]

Originally Posted by voltron1011

Man, I really hate when all of the foreigners (no offense) start comparing their countries price (Euro, Pound, etc), and then use the current exchange rate as their tool.
I'll say this one last time: YOU CANNOT MAKE COMPARISONS ON MARKETS BASED ON THE EXCHANGE RATE!!!!!!
Pricing is based on what the local economy is...

Here's an example:

DVD in the USA costs around $20.00 (14 Euros in exchange rate)
DVD in the EU cost around 20 Euros ($28 in exchange rate)

Average income for a Network Engineer in the US is $70,000 (49700 Euros)
Average income for a Network Engineer in Germany 70,000 Euros ($98,000)

You guys get it yet?!?!?!?

I dont get it

[voltron1011]

Originally Posted by addy85

I dont get it

[StewtheBassman]

Originally Posted by d_crome

Mate - before you go ahead and say that about home (yes I'm from Down Under as you yanks would say) you have to realize that our TAXATION is considerably HIGHER than yours. For that "average" 60K (which I don't know where you're getting that from, last I heard it was mid 50's) that person would be paying approximately 10%-20% MORE in taxes. However we have generous publicly funded health coverage and we don't have a guy with a cardboard sign asking for change at every intersection like I encounter here on a daily basis.

PLUS living expenses are considerably more - example, a 500ml coke will cost you $3, a pack of cigarettes will cost you over $11, a case of beer will cost you $40, a bottle of Vodka $50, a nice dinner out per person is easily over $150 - Property prices too are at Southern California levels as well.

Petrol (GAS as you say here) was $1.60 a LITRE when I was home last (approximately 4 litres to a gallon – that’s $6.40 a GALLON).

A current base model 335i will put you back around $112,000 AUS (which last month would have been around $100K US due to the near parity of the US $ and Aus $) yet the same car here would be approx $40,000 US (on the assumption of no options - add those and it gets a whole lot WORSE). That’s a markup of over 100%. An M3 will put you back $170,000. A mate just recently purchased an Audi RS4 at a "bargain" price of $170,000 - the very same car here is $66,000.

This price comparison explains the 1 series - a 135i will cost $73,000 - as you can now see, the 1 series makes sense when the comparable 335i is now $35,000 MORE.

Bottom line - the US gets a price advantage due to VOLUME sold here. However I feel that gradually market share will drop as other countries with more wealth will want BMW's product - hence keeping prices low for their American customers may not be BMW's prime concern in 5 years time.

As for anybody believing the "resurgent" US dollar is here to stay - I'd suggest you go "invest" that money on a table in Vegas rather than speculate on US currency - your odds of a good return are a lot higher!! The US is in for some serious pain that will require some extreme fiscal policy restraint in order to get it's numbers back in check. Bill Clinton fixed it last time - it can be done, just takes a little know how that’s all.

To finalize my point - CURRENT US owners of 335i's should be ecstatic over this increase - BMW just made your car worth more in resale.

USA drivers in GENERAL should be ecstatic over the prices they get!!

And to the bloke that said "if you don't like where you live then move to the US to get a cheaper car" - have you seriously even LOOKED at what it takes to immigrate to the US???!! It's not quite that simple.

Then again - good luck to anybody that wants to call Australia home - we make the US look almost easy in comparison....LOL

Great post mate.....stick around, we need more posts as clear as this!