[ceb]

Originally Posted by Mark_K

Uh, OK.

1. Insurance company should penalize with higher premiums only drivers that cost them money - i.e. those who caused accidents. I don't know when and how this whole country got on the bandwagon cheering in unison high speed = dangerous driver. We might seriously consider getting off that bandwagon.

2. When you pay premium to insurance company, you are BETTING. You know, like in the casino. YOU have no recourse to, after 10 years of no claims, ask for money back. It's a betting game. If insurance companies would prefer less uncertainty in their business, they are free to open Atlanticwide Thickburgers joint and make certain money.

Insurance has no business in knowing how many tickets you got for any reason if no claim was filed and they have to pay. Believe it or not, this is still how it works in many European countries and I don't see insurance companies going out of business. Unlike AIG, for example. Maybe because they hire better managers for a lot less money so they can afford not knowing about your speeding tickets.

Oh that is just wrong.

Just like we buy insurance to guard against a catastrophic accident and to protect the guy or gal that we might hit, the insurance companies are allowed to set premiums based upon risk (age, sex, marital status, where you live, your job, your grades, your driving record) that are indicators of how responsible you are.

We also know that in most cases, the people that get tickets are those that stick out from the crowd.

You are right that the system in Europe is different. Rather than wait for the insurance companies to pull info from the DMV (usually every couple of years on a random basis) like here in the US, Germany reports points automatically to the insurance companies.

Get close to your point limit and you will have your driver's license suspended and sent to a mandatory mental exam (the so called "Idiotentest.") That test can come as early as two speeding infractions.

Let's also remember that while some portions of the Autobahn have no speed limits, in most places where there are speed limits 50 means 50 and there is a plethora of devices in place (laser, radar, light beams etc) to send you a ticket in the mail. One reason that all European cars have speedometers that read high.

Electronic devices don't pick out the exception or the random guy in the crowd. They get everyone.

Oh, and don't even think about challenging a ticket yourself. Either pay the fine or get a lawyer.

The reason that Germany can have some places where there no speed limits is because drivers are generally better trained and the driver testing programs are more stringent than here.

[Neph]

OP, I wouldn't be so casual about those 6 points... that's going to jack your insurance premium higher than the sun.

If I were you, I'd get a good lawyer. Make sure the piggy had:

a) evidence of speed documented.
b) training in usage of speed detector
c) evidence of speed detector being calibrated recently

if not lawyer, it is ALWAYS best to show up in court. You never now if the pig will simply not show up.

[M3Bahn]

Go to http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...play.php?f=176 GA forum and ask for lawyer recommendations.


GL!

[Mark_K]

Originally Posted by ceb

Oh that is just wrong.

Just like we buy insurance to guard against a catastrophic accident and to protect the guy or gal that we might hit, the insurance companies are allowed to set premiums based upon risk (age, sex, marital status, where you live, your job, your grades, your driving record) that are indicators of how responsible you are.

When you buy insurance, you are BETTING that something bad might/can/will happen to you. If you happen to be wrong, you lost your money. Insurance company is BETTING that nothing will happen to you and keep the money. You have no recourse afterwards (can't ask money back if nothing happens), insurance company has a recourse afterwards (increase your premium if something happens to you). Described situation is equivalent of having one zero on a roulette wheel and it is acceptable. Everything additional to that (moving violations, drinking habits, marital status ... and so on) is adding one additional zero each to the roulette wheel. Would you consider ethical that Government forces you to play in a casino with 13 zeros on a wheel? I wouldn't. That's what you are doing now when you purchase insurance.

We also know that in most cases, the people that get tickets are those that stick out from the crowd.

You are right that the system in Europe is different. Rather than wait for the insurance companies to pull info from the DMV (usually every couple of years on a random basis) like here in the US, Germany reports points automatically to the insurance companies.

I wasn't talking about Germany, it isn't the only country in Europe.

The reason that Germany can have some places where there no speed limits is because drivers are generally better trained and the driver testing programs are more stringent than here.

Couldn't agree more. However, I believe that egg came before the chicken so it is BECAUSE they have Autobahn with no speed limits that they also have good roads (Autobahn), very good and well maintained fleet of personal transportation vehicles and excellent drivers.

[B0b335xi]

There was a new highway rt 100 built a few years ago near my house and my friends dad is a traffic engineer and said the speed limit could be 65 or 75 based on his knowledge, but the county makes too much money off it to justify raising the speed limit.

I think since you haven't had anything in 3 years I think you would be okay. I would just tell him you had a family emergency. Maybe the cop won't show up.

[ceb]

Originally Posted by Mark_K

When you buy insurance, you are BETTING that something bad might/can/will happen to you. If you happen to be wrong, you lost your money. Insurance company is BETTING that nothing will happen to you and keep the money. You have no recourse afterwards (can't ask money back if nothing happens), insurance company has a recourse afterwards (increase your premium if something happens to you). Described situation is equivalent of having one zero on a roulette wheel and it is acceptable. Everything additional to that (moving violations, drinking habits, marital status ... and so on) is adding one additional zero each to the roulette wheel. Would you consider ethical that Government forces you to play in a casino with 13 zeros on a wheel? I wouldn't. That's what you are doing now when you purchase insurance.

That's not quire right. There is the mandatory insurance that you need to buy to protect the other guy. Comprehensive and collision are optional. Those are the ones where you are covering yourself if something bad happens. Most of us here would be pretty annoyed if we were lumped into the same category as the 15 year old school dropout that gets weekly tickets. It is obvious that the individual getting lots of tickets is also the guy more likely to get into an accident. We WANT the insurance companies to put bad drivers into a higher category in order to keep our premiums more reasonable.

I wasn't talking about Germany, it isn't the only country in Europe.

You're right, but every EU country I know of uses a similar system. What country were you thinking of?

Couldn't agree more. However, I believe that egg came before the chicken so it is BECAUSE they have Autobahn with no speed limits that they also have good roads (Autobahn), very good and well maintained fleet of personal transportation vehicles and excellent drivers.

Not really. The Autobahn was designed for military use and to be a showpiece. Speedlimits were not needed as there were few private cars. German license requirements were started in 1910 (one of the earliest in the world and several years earlier than the US) and have always been more stringent than those in the US.

Even on those stretches of Autobahn where there is no speedlimit, there is a "recommended" top speed of 130kmh (about 80mph) and if you are involved in an accident at higher speeds then you are automatically partially at fault.

Every study has found that reducing speeds reduces crashes. That said, the best way to reduce crashes is to narrow the gap between the slower drivers and the faster drivers. If the pack is going 70-75 [with the posted limit of 65] then there is probably no major issue. The problem is the guy going 85 and zipping around others - wait - that's the OP

See my comments above in bold

[31 Hz]

The speed limit is 55.

Yeah, that's realistic.

Below video shot in Atlanta. OP, you've probably seen this.

55: A Meditation On The Speed Limit

[Mark_K]

Originally Posted by ceb

You're right, but every EU country I know of uses a similar system. What country were you thinking of?

Italy.

Every study has found that reducing speeds reduces crashes. That said, the best way to reduce crashes is to narrow the gap between the slower drivers and the faster drivers. If the pack is going 70-75 [with the posted limit of 65] then there is probably no major issue. The problem is the guy going 85 and zipping around others - wait - that's the OP

Then every study has problems matching the reality. Nothing surprising there, it is quite often the case. What reality I'm talking about? The one where trucks are restricted to 55 mph and cars to 80 mph (in ALL Europe). Yet, look at the numbers of traffic deaths for them and us (Google is your friend). Numbers for 2006 (or 2004? can't remember) show that Germans (still 7th, six other EU countries fared better) died 2.5 TIMES less then we did using deaths/100,000 population, 2 TIMES less when using deaths/100,000 registered vehicles and 50% less when using deaths/1,000,000 km traveled. And that's with speed difference of 100+ mph theoretically possible.

Back to the original issue, driver's education is desperately needed. After that, drilling into everybody's brain the importance of using the said organ while driving and paying attention while driving should solve all "problems" with relative differences in speed.

Last ... I cannot understand why everybody thinks driving in a pack 70 mph with max 30 ft distance between the vehicles is safe. Anything happens in there and you have carnage. I find the normal flow on European highways (everyone is either faster or slower than you and there are hardly any cars in your immediate surrounding unless there is a traffic jam, of course) so much more safe and more efficient use of the road. You can hardly ever see a pack of 50 vehicles followed by 2 miles of empty freeway and then another pack of 100 vehicles ... and so on.

[ceb]

Originally Posted by Mark_K

Italy.



Then every study has problems matching the reality. Nothing surprising there, it is quite often the case. What reality I'm talking about? The one where trucks are restricted to 55 mph and cars to 80 mph (in ALL Europe). Yet, look at the numbers of traffic deaths for them and us (Google is your friend). Numbers for 2006 (or 2004? can't remember) show that Germans (still 7th, six other EU countries fared better) died 2.5 TIMES less then we did using deaths/100,000 population, 2 TIMES less when using deaths/100,000 registered vehicles and 50% less when using deaths/1,000,000 km traveled. And that's with speed difference of 100+ mph theoretically possible.

Back to the original issue, driver's education is desperately needed. After that, drilling into everybody's brain the importance of using the said organ while driving and paying attention while driving should solve all "problems" with relative differences in speed.

Last ... I cannot understand why everybody thinks driving in a pack 70 mph with max 30 ft distance between the vehicles is safe. Anything happens in there and you have carnage. I find the normal flow on European highways (everyone is either faster or slower than you and there are hardly any cars in your immediate surrounding unless there is a traffic jam, of course) so much more safe and more efficient use of the road. You can hardly ever see a pack of 50 vehicles followed by 2 miles of empty freeway and then another pack of 100 vehicles ... and so on.

I shouldn't have used the word "pack" when I meant "the other drivers."

Every road has a natural speed and unless there is very light traffic, it is unlikely that you'll be singled out and stopped if going with the flow of traffic. It is the guy that sticks out - in this case the OP - that gets ticketed and is more likely to get into an accident.

Oh, Italy - like every other EU country - takes driving record, sex, age etc. into consideration when setting premiums. Been there, done that.

[tibra1]

Is this the new thing now?,,3 page threads on a guy getting a speeding ticket..wow this forum is really stellar..how bout we get back to talking about cars and moddin

[jocamryn]

The F30 is coming out. No one's talking about the E9x anymore.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by jocamryn

The F30 is coming out. No one's talking about the E9x anymore.

What can u do w the F30..except drive it off the lot?...power mods r a long way down the road..

e9x is still near and dear to all the modders..including me

[BTTGMan]

Originally Posted by ceb

I shouldn't have used the word "pack" when I meant "the other drivers."

Every road has a natural speed and unless there is very light traffic, it is unlikely that you'll be singled out and stopped if going with the flow of traffic. It is the guy that sticks out - in this case the OP - that gets ticketed and is more likely to get into an accident.

Oh, Italy - like every other EU country - takes driving record, sex, age etc. into consideration when setting premiums. Been there, done that.

My last ticket (first in years) involved me being picked out of a pack... By some lying idiot cop with a stop watch who didn't realize that I knew he was behind me, and was most certainly not speeding. He was real apologetic, said they are just trying to cut down on fatalities. And he was lying hisnass off. Place I got pulled over was a one mile stretch that drops to 45. They painted timing lines 500 feet after the speed change.

[M40i4me]

Originally Posted by taibanl

Dude. Get a lawyer to plead it down to lesse offense

+1 you are allowed to do this twice in NJ.

[Mark_K]

Originally Posted by ceb

Oh, Italy - like every other EU country - takes driving record, sex, age etc. into consideration when setting premiums. Been there, done that.

Correct. Except "driving record" there means "accidents AT FAULT", not speeding tickets, not DUI, not parking tickets and so on. At least that's what it was for 10 years I owned and insured a car there.

[bimmer_335]

i've two words for you... DISPUTE IT

[ceb]

Originally Posted by Mark_K

Correct. Except "driving record" there means "accidents AT FAULT", not speeding tickets, not DUI, not parking tickets and so on. At least that's what it was for 10 years I owned and insured a car there.

Sorry, but speeding tickets including points and DUI (of course) are some of the things that are taken into consideration - that's assuming that you can even get insured with a DUI.

To think that any country does not consider DUIs for insurance purposes is just ludicrous.

If you were there as military then it was slightly different.

[NiVeDh]

Wow, sorry to hear especially considering everyone averages about 80 mph on I-85 regardless of ITP or OTP.

[digital01]

Oh man...you got the super speeder ticket. I'm pretty sure they mail that one to you separately ($200). Not positive though. Atlanta is getting more and more stringent on their traffic enforcement, especially around the 85/285 junction. FYI, I-285 is all 55 mph as well and there are ALWAYS speed traps. If I were you, i'd invest in a laser shifter. Don't even bother with a radar detector, because they all use lasers around 85/285. By the time any detector picks it up, you'd already be caught. I honestly believe that a lot of the speed limits around ATL are ridiculously low just so that they can generate revenue through ticketing. Sounds like a conspiracy, but seriously, try driving on 285 at 55mph. I guarantee that you will get honked at for driving so slow.

On a brighter note, I have the phone number for the best traffic case lawyer in GA. He got me out of a LOT of trouble back when I was younger and somehow ended up getting the whole case expunged. I went from almost losing my driving privileges for 6 months + community service + fines, to leaving the courtroom with a big smile on my face. I didn't even have to say a word in court. It appeared that he knew a lot of the workers up in the front of the courtroom, so I wouldn't doubt it if that had some influence on the verdict. Not sure how serious your situation is, but if you want the number, PM me.

Also, look into claiming nolo contendere. If you've never used it, now might be a good time. Not sure if it will get you out of all fines, but at the least, it will negate any points being put on your record. I think you're allowed to have around 15 points within a 2 years span. After that, your license is suspended. Also, any speeding ticket over 14mph is reported to your insurance. I'm pretty sure going 32 will be at least 4-5 points.

Check this page out for more info on GA speeding tickets. Very informative.

http://www.speedingticketcentral.com/Georgia-speeding-ticket.html

Good luck with this, and I hope everything works in your favor. If it weren't for speeding tickets, i'd be filthy rich

Originally Posted by bimmer2008

Guys I am not sure where to start. It was a very light traffic morning commute and the traffic flow was about 70 to 75 mph. I was trying to merge onto another highway(I-75) at a split, realized I was almost gonna miss the turn, I smashed on the gas for a split of a second and was trying to pass the car in front of me so I can make the merge. 10 seconds later I noticed a cop on a motorcycle poped out of nowhere and then was tailgating me like he's trying to climb onto my car.

...

He ended up writing me a ticket for doing 87 on a 55 zone (I had no clue that the entire section of I-85 inside of the I-285 bypass has a speed limit of only 55!). I just checked the fine for speeding in the City of Atlanta, speeding more than 24 to 29 mph is $750, and it does not even list the fine for speeding over 29 mph. Plus the recently passed Super Speeder law which adds $200 on top of the total fine, conservatively I am looking at a total of $1k in fines.

I have not had a speeding ticket in the last 3 years and do not any points on my driver's license. What should I do to reduce the fine? I heard in Atlanta that you can go to a defensive driving school prior to the court date, and plead guilty and then beg for mercy. What should I do?

Not sure if he actually used a radar gun to test my speed but on the ticket it does have some numbers for the radar serial# and caliberation check. Description for the offense is simply "speeding".

I truly appreciate any inputs you guys have.

[Capt Slow]

I can assure you that a Highway Patrol Officer will have more than ample evidence for this particular instance, which will also yield a heavy weight in court. Don't be foolish...

[thkfast]

OP,

Listen, talk to the county attorney.

Explain what happened and how you have a good driving record and see what his
position is on the ticket.

Chances are you will be able to plead it waaaaaay down. I've done this several times and was amazed at how effective a sit down talk with a county attorney is!

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Mark_K

When you buy insurance, you are BETTING that something bad might/can/will happen to you. If you happen to be wrong, you lost your money. Insurance company is BETTING that nothing will happen to you and keep the money. You have no recourse afterwards (can't ask money back if nothing happens), insurance company has a recourse afterwards (increase your premium if something happens to you). Described situation is equivalent of having one zero on a roulette wheel and it is acceptable. Everything additional to that (moving violations, drinking habits, marital status ... and so on) is adding one additional zero each to the roulette wheel. Would you consider ethical that Government forces you to play in a casino with 13 zeros on a wheel? I wouldn't. That's what you are doing now when you purchase insurance.



I wasn't talking about Germany, it isn't the only country in Europe.



Couldn't agree more. However, I believe that egg came before the chicken so it is BECAUSE they have Autobahn with no speed limits that they also have good roads (Autobahn), very good and well maintained fleet of personal transportation vehicles and excellent drivers.

The alternative is to not buy any insurance except for liability, which is required by law for everyone.

While I agree with you that any type of insurance is a win-win for the insurance co., so is every other type of business transaction that the little guy enters into. Car leasing is a slam-dunk for the lessor, yet I don't see anyone screaming about how teed off they are that BMWFS is making mad profits as they put a 50k car in their driveway for hundreds of dollars a month.

I've never had a claim and had at least one car fully covered since 1998. When I had a glass problem the insurance co. argued with me that I should repair and not replace, even though the crack was within driver's view and would fail an inspection. They argue with a claimless, good-driver discounted pay on time 6 mos in advance top-tier policyholder.

You and I as the individual cannot effectively spread out the risk, i.e., some as***** slips and falls on our driveway and initiates a frivolous lawsuit because there's no cost to him to do so, we need that homeowners policy to pay him the $100k settlement to dispose of it. And yes, said homeowners is going to either raise the premium or drop us altogether. But what's the alternative? Have an entire society who cannot spread the risk out as individuals, yet have no insurance at the same time? Why, that'd be just like healthcare in the US.

Didn't I just get done explaining last week that an insurance co. will sell life insurance, and annuities, and charge a mortality risk expense on both products, that YOU, the insured pays? The mortality risk expense protects their interests in the event that the bet they placed on your life turns out wrong, despite the teams of actuaries who calculated when you would die. That is if you die too soon with the life insurance, and if you live too long on the annuity. That's like having 38 spots on a roulette wheel with alternating 0's and 00's, and you collect on red and black.