[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Most of these tunes are way beyond the scope of "hurting" anyones car more then another.... so that topic is moot. Modification comes with consequences and no tune is invincible to increased wear from increased heat/boost/power.

[Rob@Cobb]

Originally Posted by turkish335

ETA? Stage 2?

For sure by the end of summer!

Cheers,
Rob

[Trojan4evr]

Originally Posted by korben dallas

Trollin4evr

What the hell have you contributed to this thread other than smart ass remark? Obvious who's trolling here.

[Kamal]

Originally Posted by tibra1

Im not sure how these threads you attached relate to the GIAC tune..

The first post the OP had the following codes
30BA 1,2,3 injectors misfiring
DME (Defective diode in DME)

The second he did the injector recall, under normal service update.

Both completely unrelated to the GIAC reflash..so not sure what was the point of posting these?

Contrarily, there are numerous threads where people have had issues directly attributable to running COBB

As I said before..the reason is simple..GIAC is more developed and finalized than COBB..COBB will most likely continue to refine and enhance their tune..but at the moment GIAC is the more refined of the tunes and exhibits no tune related problems.

Originally Posted by XJS

To be fair, your links has nothing to do with this thread, the first is a DME error which is apparantly an issue on certain unlucky 2007 models which leads to the DME to be entirely replaced. One would not need a logger for this circumstance, it needs to be taken to BMW or a shop that can change the DME, which sleepergm that started the thread proceeded on doing.

Your second link has no misfire code, just a rough idle, so a logger wouldn't help there either, so I'm not sure what you're on about on that one.

Now, I'm not saying one shouldn't need a logging tool, I've got a BT cable myself to check for codes so I don't get fooled by BMW every time I have an issue with some sensor in the car (latest issue was a rear level xenon sensor which acted up). Just wanted to clear your references up.

Thank you for illustrating my point... shit happens on every tune. Those were the first two things that appeared on my google search for GIAC and misfires on e90post... were those issues caused by the GIAC? NO... but one could falsely link the two very easily.

Now, can either of you provide links of troubles associated with running Cobb specifically? Those "troubles" are the same type of troubles that rear their head with a piggy back but disappear when running on a stock map or after removing the piggy. I've said it before, I respect GIAC and their tune! If Cobb didn't release the AP I'd be running the GIAC stage 2 tune myself! I'm not here to bash any vendor or product, rather I chimed in to counter the falsehood that Cobb's tune, specifically, is causing problems.... if your plugs are worn out but still fine for a stock map, they'll cause a misfire if you're running the AP, or JB/ProCede/GIAC/Dinan/etc. tune.

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Most of these tunes are way beyond the scope of "hurting" anyones car more then another.... so that topic is moot. Modification comes with consequences and no tune is invincible to increased wear from increased heat/boost/power.

Thank you... I wish I was as succinct as you are!

[Kamal]

Also, I'd like to add that there's probably a higher percentage of people who have no idea what they're doing with the Cobb AP (due to it's ease of use) vs. the other tunes. These are the same people that immediately post (without searching) their issues, without looking up the codes and troubleshooting themselves, etc. Adding more hysteria to the forum.... anyways, sorry for the

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by Kamal

Thank you for illustrating my point... shit happens on every tune. Those were the first two things that appeared on my google search for GIAC and misfires on e90post... were those issues caused by the GIAC? NO... but one could falsely link the two very easily.

So basically what you are saying is that you just copied threads about people w non-tune issues who also happened to run GIAC..and you did this to prove what exactly?..Issues, such as HPFP, mis-fires and injectors are irrelvant to the tune being run

Originally Posted by Kamal

Now, can either of you provide links of troubles associated with running Cobb specifically? Those "troubles" are the same type of troubles that rear their head with a piggy back but disappear when running on a stock map or after removing the piggy. I've said it before, I respect GIAC and their tune! If Cobb didn't release the AP I'd be running the GIAC stage 2 tune myself! I'm not here to bash any vendor or product, rather I chimed in to counter the falsehood of Cobb's product, specifically, causing problems.... if your plugs are worn out but still fine for a stock map, they'll cause a misfire if you're running the AP, or JB/ProCede/GIAC/Dinan/etc. tune.

Ok since you asked here are some issues specific to the COBB tune

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...highlight=COBB

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...highlight=COBB

Let me be clear I am not putting down COBB over GIAC..but as I stated ..one tune is clearly more mature than the other...

Kindly keep your rhoteric to a minimum..this should be an informative and factual discussion..not stupid forum speak of "trolling" this or "fanboy" that.

[XJS]

I'm sorry Kamal, your logic is still flawed. You quoted two links that would not have any help from a logging tool, but a simple code reader would have sufficed. And the second link didn't even have a code to begin with, just a rough idle, so even a code reader wouldn't have helped...

And for the whole "higher percentage of people who have no idea what they're doing with the Cobb AP (due to it's ease of use)" is even more flawed. GIAC is as stupid easy as it gets, I mean you go to a shop, let them do everything and you drive away. I'd say COBB AP is more tricky to use...

[Trojan4evr]

Originally Posted by Kamal

Thank you for illustrating my point... shit happens on every tune. Those were the first two things that appeared on my google search for GIAC and misfires on e90post... were those issues caused by the GIAC? NO... but one could falsely link the two very easily.

Now, can either of you provide links of troubles associated with running Cobb specifically? Those "troubles" are the same type of troubles that rear their head with a piggy back but disappear when running on a stock map or after removing the piggy. I've said it before, I respect GIAC and their tune! If Cobb didn't release the AP I'd be running the GIAC stage 2 tune myself! I'm not here to bash any vendor or product, rather I chimed in to counter the falsehood that Cobb's tune, specifically, is causing problems.... if your plugs are worn out but still fine for a stock map, they'll cause a misfire if you're running the AP, or JB/ProCede/GIAC/Dinan/etc. tune.



Thank you... I wish I was as succinct as you are!

All of these threads that you posted as EVIDENCE actually backfired and to still justify your comments you switch the argument and say people actually illustrate your points? what do you think it is boy? a Junior college paper assignment that you google and copy paste together? Your logic has holes all over it like US women's Soccer team.

I simply don't care how many irrelevant threads you are referencing. Go see some actual data logs of Cobb that people have posted and see how timing looks like shit. Clap135 used to point to it before he got banned.

Now that you seem very search oriented person, show me the actual track ran 335s that used Cobb. Ask Fred at Evolution Racewerks how many miles they did in numerous Competitions in Hot southern Cal.

[dzenno]

Instead of you guys arguing the unarguable, I suggest reading/learning a bit more on basic tuning principles...many of you don't know and don't even take a few mins out of your day to read up on basic engine theory while wasting time here arguing pointlessly..what's the point seriously?

[FastBimmerN54]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Instead of you guys arguing the unarguable, I suggest reading/learning a bit more on basic tuning principles...many of you don't know and don't even take a few mins out of your day to read up on basic engine theory while wasting time here arguing pointlessly..what's the point seriously?

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Instead of you guys arguing the unarguable, I suggest reading/learning a bit more on basic tuning principles...many of you don't know and don't even take a few mins out of your day to read up on basic engine theory while wasting time here arguing pointlessly..what's the point seriously?

I have done my reading on tuning this car..as far as "what's the point?"

Its a legititmate topic worthy of debate..

Same as if I ask you whats the point of a +1000 post thread on PCV valves?>>

[Joshboody]

How do you choose 91 or 93oct maps without datalogging... can't just base it off the octane rating at the gas station. Race map maybe good with Meth but not with 100oct because the weather is too hot... how would you know.

Let's say GIAC has the best OTC maps... they will not be able to compete with custom tuning... every car is different. When is the weather too hot to use your winter map... log to find out.

So no GIAC cars have throttle closure... i'm sure they would change the map if you requested, but how would you know (they seem open to custom changes). You may feel the closure, but you would need to log in order for GIAC to understand the needed changes.

Good point on the fuel pressure. WGDC is very good log channel also. AFR can be off from the target before a code is thrown.

I like datalogging.

If you want to install a tune and not worry... fine, but keep the tune very conservative.

[Kamal]

Originally Posted by tibra1

So basically what you are saying is that you just copied threads about people w non-tune issues who also happened to run GIAC..and you did this to prove what exactly?..Issues, such as HPFP, mis-fires and injectors are irrelvant to the tune being run



Ok since you asked here are some issues specific to the COBB tune

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...highlight=COBB

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...highlight=COBB

That's exactly my point... I was responding to a previous post which claimed that people are having issues with the Cobb... I apologize if my interpretation of 'issues' was more along the lines of the numerous posts of people misfiring and blaming it on the Cobb tune.

Originally Posted by XJS

I'm sorry Kamal, your logic is still flawed. You quoted two links that would not have any help from a logging tool, but a simple code reader would have sufficed. And the second link didn't even have a code to begin with, just a rough idle, so even a code reader wouldn't have helped...

And for the whole "higher percentage of people who have no idea what they're doing with the Cobb AP (due to it's ease of use)" is even more flawed. GIAC is as stupid easy as it gets, I mean you go to a shop, let them do everything and you drive away. I'd say COBB AP is more tricky to use...

Those links were the first two things I got through google... I didn't analyze them as critically as everyone else. I apologize for that!

Also, GIAC is stupid easy if you've got a local dealer.. otherwise shipping out your ECU is no small feat for those not technically/mechanically savvy.

Originally Posted by Trojan4evr

All of these threads that you posted as EVIDENCE actually backfired and to still justify your comments you switch the argument and say people actually illustrate your points? what do you think it is boy? a Junior college paper assignment that you google and copy paste together? Your logic has holes all over it like US women's Soccer team.

I simply don't care how many irrelevant threads you are referencing. Go see some actual data logs of Cobb that people have posted and see how timing looks like shit. Clap135 used to point to it before he got banned.

Now that you seem very search oriented person, show me the actual track ran 335s that used Cobb. Ask Fred at Evolution Racewerks how many miles they did in numerous Competitions in Hot southern Cal.

Boy? Switching arguments? Junior college?
Seriously man? Sorry that my logic was flawed in your eyes, but I still stand by what I say. My interpretation of people having issues may have been different than yours, and again, I apologize for that. No need to get condescending man. FWIW, I'm PhD student in biochemistry... I have to constantly write shit reviewed by experts, not some junior college paper assignment shit.

Now can we take these butt-plugs out of our asses and have a civil discussion!? I'm here to learn as much as I can...

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by PDS

You have been very presuming in your responses.

While I love the 335 my biggest disappointment in the car is how fragile it is. A search of the forum shows plenty of threads about temperature problems in particular.

My expectation of a car of this nature is that in stock form I should be able to just change the brake pads and hit the track without fear of the car going into limp mode or something breaking. I would expect accelerated wear of components.

A search of this forum shows plenty of threads about people who could not do this.

I'm not sure why you think this has anything to do with a tune, be it Cobb or GIAC.

The 335i is certainly a very good car, but in stock form it is not at all suitable for a track. Only very few cars are - mainly Porsches, and a stock 335i is very far removed from being such a sportscar.

Even in stock form, you can't drive a 335i on the track without getting thermal issues. Search a bit on this and you'll be amply educated, also as to the reasons for this. Tunes with higher load, more boost and therefore more thermal stress exacerbate this problem, naturally.

If you expect a streetcar such as the 335i to perform on a track without modifications, you'll have to look for another car.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[d0nk3x]

Originally Posted by Trojan4evr

what do you think it is boy? a Junior college paper assignment that you google and copy paste together? Your logic has holes all over it like US women's Soccer team.

Originally Posted by Trojan4evr

I just have to say people have been running Their N54s in races with GIAC for ages. Ask ER, ASk EAS, Ask Berk Technology, Ask Mr5,... and for Cobb? As I can recall, I've seen a lot of threads that are stating they are having problems after installing Cobb.

I let you reach your own conclusion.

i just had to bite. the women's soccer team line is classic, it deserves a slow clap. one of the best, though totally unrelated(read: useless), similes i've ever seen.

on to your (probably assumed by you as "hole-less") logic: you mentioned giac having great experience in reliability with all of these, i assume, companies/groups that can vouch for the tune.
i've heard of berk's insane 135 and eas' experience with tuning/support of giac, it says a lot.

however, let's just examine one case. the berk 135's success and, for lack of a better word, awesomeness is probably derived from the summation of the different mods they have done to the car (and i even heard/saw in pics? that they gutted the interior). it doesn't rely solely on the fact that they use/chose giac. my guess is that it was probably the most reliable flash tune with the most experience in the tuning arena at the time of their build. and it's exactly for that reason they could run with it and achieve what they wanted to out of the car as a whole.

here's the weird part. you said giac has all these companies backing it etc and with so much experience. but wait, hasn't the giac chip been out for quite a bit longer? im not sure exactly, but i'd hazard a guess that since cobb just came out roughly this year(2011 right?) maybe it hasn't had a chance to refine and round out the rough edges.

that said, you so graciously allowed me to reach my own conclusion, as i wasn't aware you could keep me from doing so. (i'm sorry im so verbose, i just fell in love with your use of the english language, such as "boy" and so on)

my conclusion is that cobb is probably just getting up and running, and will probably get picked up/backed by companies in the coming months/years. giac is a great tune im sure. but cobb looks like a very promising competitor. but it’s not an apple to apple comparison of giac/cobb as a whole since there is far too much discrepancy in the age of each tune. therefore, it would be illogical to try to bolster one up by saying it’s tried and true, whilst the other is getting up and running so to speak. it’s like saying michael phelps is way better and tried/true, in comparison to a child just starting swimming lessons.

tl;dr cobb is just getting started, dont compare based on age/experience right now. compare the two awesome flash tunes when they're ready you silly goose!

i hope i made enough random references/comments, I kind of forgot midway through. in that arena, i still give the crown to you, Trojan4evr

fight on!

fyi ur hilarious

p.s. i want your babies