[blue2fire]

Originally Posted by naamanf

Plenty of tech has made it into their cars.

What exactly?

They don't advertise a lot on this, maybe it is their distinctive LED DRL's.

[username604]

didn't the last v8 have like an 8300rpm redline? can't wait to redline my future m3 at 4k rpms! i can hear it bouncing off the limiter now: broom broom broom broom screech screech borom brrommm

lol, i'm messin' in the spirit of a flame thread!

[Saintor]

For those that think you can't build a serious performer with a diesel engine I offer you the Audi r15/r10. Which has won Le Mans 5 out of the last six years.

Half of the story.

The only reason why diesel engines enjoy some success in the Lemans is JUST because the rules are tweaked in favor of the diesel engines. Diesel engines displacement can much larger than the gas engines.

Example in LM /P1 class

Maximum Cubic capacity: 3400 cm3 for atmospheric petrol engines, 2000 cm3 for the turbo petrol engines or 3700 cm3 for the diesel engines

Marketing for fools. Bring them equal and beu-bye, diesels.

[maswastage]

Just because a diesel engine makes power differently than a gas engine doesn't mean it has any unfair advantages. So what if diesels are allowed higher displacement? That's like complaining that it's unfair the gassers are allowed higher redlines. Or how about that the gassers are allowed larger fuel tanks to offset the diesel's inherent efficiency advantage.

As for the matter of a diesel m3, I'm all for it. I don't care what they call it, it doesn't have to be an M if that'll get the badge whores all riled up. Just as long as it has a performance tuned diesel and an M suspension and differential.

[Thud]

Originally Posted by maswastage

Just because a diesel engine makes power differently than a gas engine doesn't mean it has any unfair advantages. So what if diesels are allowed higher displacement? That's like complaining that it's unfair the gassers are allowed higher redlines. Or how about that the gassers are allowed larger fuel tanks to offset the diesel's inherent efficiency advantage.

As for the matter of a diesel m3, I'm all for it. I don't care what they call it, it doesn't have to be an M if that'll get the badge whores all riled up. Just as long as it has a performance tuned diesel and an M suspension and differential.

Diesels require higher displacement to make the same power. That's why the rules allow higher displacement for turbodiesels.
So gassers actually have the advantage in HP/liter, even if they're at a significant torque disadvantage.
But even with the higher displacement, the diesels are still consuming less fuel and running more reliability (the 5000rpm redline certainly reduces stress on engine components), which is why they allowed gassers to have larger fuel tanks.

So if Le Mans rules change and allow turbo gassers the same displacement as diesels, well then they should also allow diesels to have the same fuel capacity as the gassers.

[Saintor]

So if Le Mans rules change and allow turbo gassers the same displacement as diesels, well then they should also allow diesels to have the same fuel capacity as the gassers.

This is also to compensate that diesel engines are heavier. If you make the gas engine cars lighter by removing liters of gas, then the performance gap in favor of the gassers increases. Good idea! lol.

[Infamous]

Maybe I'm just new to the BMW thing and not wrapped up in tradition ... I'd take a performance diesel BMW in a heartbeat

The new m3 and m5 have broken from tradition by going forced induction. So is an //m diesel really so far fetched?

[Q4P]

I am still curious to hear what the point of this M3d would be? What advantage outside of fuel efficiency would the diesel M model have over the gas model? The torque advantage would be almost meaningless since this would be a track car and you can rev it high the entire time (oh wait, not really all that high since it's a diesel), it wouldn't sound that great since it's a diesel and would more than likely be heavier than it's gas counterpart as well as more expensive. So I am just curious who would spend $70-$80K on a track monster and then worry about fuel efficiency?, there must be something I am missing.

[oilfighter]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

I am still curious to hear what the point of this M3d would be? What advantage outside of fuel efficiency would the diesel M model have over the gas model? The torque advantage would be almost meaningless since this would be a track car and you can rev it high the entire time (oh wait, not really all that high since it's a diesel), it wouldn't sound that great since it's a diesel and would more than likely be heavier than it's gas counterpart as well as more expensive. So I am just curious who would spend $70-$80K on a track monster and then worry about fuel efficiency?, there must be something I am missing.

You have to drive the 335d to really understand how torque effects the drive. Trust me, it's not as simple as being equal to "rev it high the entire time". What about passing without downshift? Exit corner power?

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by oilfighter

You have to drive the 335d to really understand how torque effects the drive. Trust me, it's not as simple as being equal to "rev it high the entire time". What about passing without downshift? Exit corner power?

That's nice and all and that's why a 335d exists, I've driven 2 and I know exactly what you are talking about... not sure we still need to slap an M badge on it. M means track performance and torque means next to nothing on a track.

[Dark_Knight_335]

Originally Posted by Trojan4evr

I'd vote for an inline six triple turbo running on human fart tuned by M.

Lmao!!

[Thud]

Originally Posted by Saintor

This is also to compensate that diesel engines are heavier. If you make the gas engine cars lighter by removing liters of gas, then the performance gap in favor of the gassers increases. Good idea! lol.

...until the diesel blows by the gasser that's refueling in the pit area.

[Thud]

Originally Posted by blue2fire

What exactly?

They don't advertise a lot on this, maybe it is their distinctive LED DRL's.

In the past, the V12 TDI and V10 TDI engines had production vehicle counterparts. I wouldn't be surprised to see the 3.7L TDI make it to a production vehicle in a couple of years. It's not just the equipment though, it's also the knowledge-- a lot of R&D goes into making a race car, and knowledge gained from building a car that can survive 24 hours of torture can be used to produce more reliable mainstream cars as well. This is not exclusive to Audi (or diesels).

Oh yeah, and the LED's.

[Saintor]

Originally Posted by Thud

...until the diesel blows by the gasser that's refueling in the pit area.

A win is a win, but some wins are just more fair-play.

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by Quasimodem

To the extent it means that a diesel 3 series will get all the shiny bits available only to the M cars (CF roof, al subframe, etc...), this would be nice. Improvement in engine performance would be nice for those who need more. But I wouldnt be interested in having the M on the back or anywhere else for that matter and I think many d drivers would agree. If they did want to spend the extra bucks for the better looks and performance, that's fine, but they probably would debadge the "M" or not care about it.

If BMW wanted to, it could make all the shiny bits available on 335i cars right now, at a price of course. But BMW is more concerned about protecting the "exclusivity" of the M brand than about making a bit more money on regular 3 series cars by including options for things like the AL subframe or CF roof. As a result, we have to mod our non-M cars.

But the result is that BMW could not put out a normal car which out performs an M car. So if BMW does come out with a car with more potential performance, they detune it and gear it for economy. If BMW wants to extract more performance from that car and make it available to the public, maybe because of competition from other car companies, then it must go to the M division and come out an M car. That's marketing my friends. If you dont believe me as to the importance of marketing and having a well-rounded line up of cars, look at how successful the awesome VW Phaeton has been in the US.

I agree with you 100%! Keep the diesel a diesel, and to pep it up a bit throw on some m style wheels and body kit as they already do. And keep the M3 exactly what it is; a raw powerful exhilarating sports car that is track ready at a moments notice. Period.

[merchomini]

Originally Posted by cb4

For those that think you can't build a serious performer with a diesel engine I offer you the Audi r15/r10. Which has won Le Mans 5 out of the last six years.

You guys really need to open you minds and imagine what BMW could do if they put there minds to building a true diesel performer.

I completely agree with this, and dont say just because its a race car and they have spent so much money on it and blah blah blah because that is the same diesel technology that audi uses, and has been developing since the begining of there car making since diesel has been around almost as long as gas motors.

Theres to many closed minded ppl in this world, that are afraid of change.


Ad any one who buys an m3 for performance is the minority, since they now make a 4-door which is heavier, and they make a convertible which dont get me started on all of the issues. IF BMW wanted to make a truly stunning M3D, they definately could, not to mention that most of europe and the rest of the world have been using diesel for a verrrry long time.

Unless we have actual automotive engineers on here saying its impossible to make a performance production car with a diesel because of the wieght or whatever bs reason have been given here id otn see how anyone can make an argument agaist it.

and if you wanna talk about v-10 being in audis race car, the m5 has a v-10 along with a few other production cars

[mm2129]

Originally Posted by Infamous

Maybe I'm just new to the BMW thing and not wrapped up in tradition ... I'd take a performance diesel BMW in a heartbeat

The new m3 and m5 have broken from tradition by going forced induction. So is an //m diesel really so far fetched?

very true I will forever miss that V10

[Morgan GS]

well i got one

M3d

[Thud]

Originally Posted by Saintor

A win is a win

[Hisam135i]

Dont exactly care if its a diesel or even a four cylinder as long as it performs... Wouldn't it be a good thing if it's more powerful and efficient regardless of the engine size or type...