[Chadd]

Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54

Here is a thing on opinions, opinions are like butt holes, they all stink. If you've only had one tune and one meth kit, you have no experience therefore your opinions dont matter. Truth hurts. Get off your high horse that you bought the inexpensive tune and meth kit. You needed wiki pedia to learn the definition of opinion, that's sad. If you dont want to learn the truth about the parts you purchased fine.

I posted that link for you Child. I think you need to look in the mirror, you are the one on a high horse saying that all opinions are like butt holes and they all stink. Thanks for informing me what opinions are boy, its obvious that you are very arrogant and cannot comprehend that you just "moded" yourself.

Its a slang buddy in case you don't know what it means child here is a link.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moded

[JBax]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

As I lack the electrical engineering degree in this discussion I'm just trying to get the story straight. What is if any the benefit of a PWM signal used on a so called "PPS Meth kit" ?

+1

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54

The BMS WW kit works, but its not a true PWM kit. It cannot run 50 PSI of pressure and have the same atomization of a real PWM kit at 50 PSI.

The BMS ww kit is a PPS pump, they can only atomize at 100% duty cycle. Anything less and the atomization is poor.

A real PWM kit can atomize properly at low PSI just as well as high PSI.

This is just for clarification and nothing more. If you like your kit thats great and I'm glad its working.

However, the advertisement is a scam.

As for the other remarks about tunes... unless you try them all you have no opinion.

That's just must more propaganda. Here is a video showing a CM10 nozzle at 30% duty cycle, 50% duty cycle, and 100% duty cycle. You can hear the pump pulsing away at a really slow speed at 30% yet the spray pattern is still perfect.

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

That's just must more propaganda. Here is a video showing a CM10 nozzle at 30% duty cycle, 50% duty cycle, and 100% duty cycle. You can hear the pump pulsing away at a really slow speed at 30% yet the spray pattern is still perfect.

That video proves nothing; add 1 bar to the equation and see what it does.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

As I lack the electrical engineering degree in this discussion I'm just trying to get the story straight. What is if any the benefit of a PWM signal used on a so called "PPS Meth kit" if any?

Mike is unlikely to answer this question. So I will:

There is no benefit to sending a PWM signal to the pump as far as the pump is concerned. It will behave as if it were being fed a variable 0-12v analog signal.

Unlike an PWM injection valve/solenoid, the pump does not physically start and stop as the PWM signal switches states. This is due to rotor interia. Instead, it simply in increases or decreases the rotor speed which increases/decreases pump flow. So you are left with the only option of metering meth spray by adjusting injection pressure. Which is a compromised solution due to the nonlinear relationship between pressure and flow. Not to mention that below a certain pressure, atomization suffers. So you effectively have a system that is really is only functional between ~100psi and ~200psi. And I'm being generous with the max pressure because once spraying, line pressure actually drops down to ~170-180psi on a pump this is rated at "200psi" deadheaded.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

That's just must more propaganda. Here is a video showing a CM10 nozzle at 30% duty cycle, 50% duty cycle, and 100% duty cycle. You can hear the pump pulsing away at a really slow speed at 30% yet the spray pattern is still perfect.

Now your are just being deceptive. You are running that solenoid at 10hz in the demo. You could never do this in a car and you know why. I can do the math again if you'd like.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Now your are just being deceptive. You are running that solenoid at 10hz in the demo. You could never do this in a car and you know why. I can do the math again if you'd like.

There is no solenoid connected in that demo. It's simply a display of line pressure vs. atomization. The CM line of nozzles atomize very well even at lower pressures.

Mike

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

There is no solenoid connected in that demo. It's simply a display of line pressure vs. atomization. The CM line of nozzles atomize very well even at lower pressures.

Mike

I'm sorry I couldn't see the video on my iPhone. I erroneously assumed it was another video that you posted a while back. In this video (which i can't see unfortunately), do you have a pressure gauge displayed? Or are you just assuming that 30% DC equals 30% of max pressure?

[thebigragu99]

[FastBimmerN54]

Originally Posted by Chadd

I posted that link for you Child. I think you need to look in the mirror, you are the one on a high horse saying that all opinions are like butt holes and they all stink. Thanks for informing me what opinions are boy, its obvious that you are very arrogant and cannot comprehend that you just "moded" yourself.

Its a slang buddy in case you don't know what it means child here is a link.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moded

Child? What are your michael jackson? You have an obsession with the pedophile type name calling. I comprehend just fine and that is you have no idea what your talking about.

When you want to have a technical discussion I'm ready. Until then your just beating around the bush.

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

That's just must more propaganda. Here is a video showing a CM10 nozzle at 30% duty cycle, 50% duty cycle, and 100% duty cycle. You can hear the pump pulsing away at a really slow speed at 30% yet the spray pattern is still perfect.

As the post above mentioned that is not with any boost pressure in the pipe. More false advertising. You guys can trick the amateurs looking to get the best bang for the buck but you cant expect to trick people doing this very years even decades on other platforms.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I'm sorry I couldn't see the video on my iPhone. I erroneously assumed it was another video that you posted a while back. In this video (which i can't see unfortunately), do you have a pressure gauge displayed? Or are you just assuming that 30% DC equals 30% of max pressure?

There is no pressure gauge in that video but it is running the minimum pump duty cycle and clearly a low volume of well atomized fluid out the nozzle. In the real world there is no reason to inject less than that or even anywhere near it. The BMS PWM kit uses 100% duty cycle as low as 7psi keeping fuel trims close to neutral and it works wonderfully as hundreds who run the WW kit have experienced. And it can always be remapped should the desire arise from 30-100% duty cycle on 6-14psi just like you run. There are quite a few things in the works on the WW kit mapping actually.

If BMS meth kit users were given the option to add the same Aquamist solenoid for say $150 extra would any of you be interested in that? There would be no real world gains but at least you would not have Shiv chiming in to every BMS WW kit thread thread with his marketing patrol. That has to be worth something!

Mike

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54

As the post above mentioned that is not with any boost pressure in the pipe. More false advertising. You guys can trick the amateurs looking to get the best bang for the buck but you cant expect to trick people doing this very years even decades on other platforms.

Nice try but at 30% duty cycle using Vishnu's mapping boost would only be around 6-7psi, hardly enough to make any difference. By the time you are up over 14psi you would already be ramped up to 100% duty cycle running at full pressure. BMS runs 100% duty cycle down low as it allows more reasonable open loop / fuel pressure mapping and better resistance to heat soak.

Mike

[Chadd]

Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54

Child? What are your michael jackson? You have an obsession with the pedophile type name calling. I comprehend just fine and that is you have no idea what your talking about.

What does MJ have to do with anything? Pedophile name calling are you serious? You are acting like a child hence why I called you a child.

Here is a little reminder for you since you cannot remember why I called you a child.

Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54

The BMS WW kit works, but its not a true PWM kit. It cannot run 50 PSI of pressure and have the same atomization of a real PWM kit at 50 PSI.

The BMS ww kit is a PPS pump, they can only atomize at 100% duty cycle. Anything less and the atomization is poor.

A real PWM kit can atomize properly at low PSI just as well as high PSI.

This is just for clarification and nothing more. If you like your kit thats great and I'm glad its working.

However, the advertisement is a scam.

As for the other remarks about tunes... unless you try them all you have no opinion.

Originally Posted by Chadd

HAHA your a funny little Child. I say that because you are obviously ignorant to what an opinion means. Grow up boy. Here is the a link so you can understand what "opinion" means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion

In case you didn't realize there are hundreds of threads that I can logically formulate my opinion from.

Instead of thread crapping why don't you just go and start your own thread on how their advertisement is a scam.

Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54

Here is a thing on opinions, opinions are like butt holes, they all stink. If you've only had one tune and one meth kit, you have no experience therefore your opinions dont matter. Truth hurts. Get off your high horse that you bought the inexpensive tune and meth kit. You needed wiki pedia to learn the definition of opinion, that's sad. If you dont want to learn the truth about the parts you purchased fine.

Originally Posted by Chadd

I posted that link for you Child. I think you need to look in the mirror, you are the one on a high horse saying that all opinions are like butt holes and they all stink. Thanks for informing me what opinions are boy, its obvious that you are very arrogant and cannot comprehend that you just "moded" yourself.

Its a slang buddy in case you don't know what it means child here is a link.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moded

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Nice try but at 30% duty cycle using Vishnu's mapping boost would only be around 6-7psi, hardly enough to make any difference. By the time you are up over 14psi you would already be ramped up to 100% duty cycle running at full pressure. BMS runs 100% duty cycle down low as it allows more reasonable open loop / fuel pressure mapping and better resistance to heat soak.

Mike

Again, Mike, you are either missing the Scenario, point, or just trying to direct attention elsewhere. When you say "hardly enough to make a difference", it would appear you have no actual experience.

I'll make this easy for you: picture you are going around a sweeping corner (maybe a cloverleaf for the street racers), at 60% throttle for 6 seconds straight. Are you saying that if I were to be pumping 100% duty cycle (apx 1000ml/mn) that would be just fine?

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

Again, Mike, you are either missing the Scenario, point, or just trying to direct attention elsewhere. When you say "hardly enough to make a difference", it would appear you have no actual experience.

I'll make this easy for you: picture you are going around a sweeping corner (maybe a cloverleaf for the street racers), at 60% throttle for 6 seconds straight. Are you saying that if I were to be pumping 100% duty cycle (apx 1000ml/mn) that would be just fine?

Absolutely. You are confusing methanol mapping with boost pressure mapping. Are you worried your air intake temperature is going to get too cold through that six second turn? As long as your fuel trims are not pegging negative there is no negative drivability impact provided boost is mapped properly to throttle input.

Mike

PS. With the current JB4 WW mapping at 60% throttle input you'd be running around 8psi and zero methanol, BTW. In theory you could run from 30-100% duty cycle though providing as much or as little methanol as needed. The included CM10 nozzle does around 800-850ml/min at 100% duty cycle.

Mike

[FastBimmerN54]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Nice try but at 30% duty cycle using Vishnu's mapping boost would only be around 6-7psi, hardly enough to make any difference. By the time you are up over 14psi you would already be ramped up to 100% duty cycle running at full pressure. BMS runs 100% duty cycle down low as it allows more reasonable open loop / fuel pressure mapping and better resistance to heat soak.

Mike

I'm not really concerned with Vishnu or their meth kit mapping as I have neither. I'm more concerned with getting the facts straightened out. Perhaps instead of having Vishnu rename their product it might behoove BMS just to rename their kit properly. As you mentioned previously everything is PWM just like a toaster. So why even mention it?

Whether this car or said tune runs certain pressure at X psi doesnt change the fact that a traditional PPS kit even with the magical PWM signal still cannot atomize as good as a "fast acting" "pwm solenoid" with the appropriate pump.

[e30rus]

Originally Posted by Chadd

What does MJ have to do with anything? Pedophile name calling are you serious? You are acting like a child hence why I called you a child.

Here is a little reminder for you since you cannot remember why I called you a child.

All your doing is eating up bandwidth with your NONSENSE.

Obviously the only child here is you, due to your lack of basic comprehension .

If Ignorance is bliss you take the cake!

[JBax]

can we stop the bickering already and get back to the main topic ? if you guys want to continue your pointless debate on who is a bigger ass, do it in PMs please.

[Chadd]

Originally Posted by JBax

can we stop the bickering already and get back to the main topic ? if you guys want to continue your pointless debate on who is a bigger ass, do it in PMs please.

Bax this thread was made because I am stoked with my results of my current mod list. Then some children had to come in here and shit on my parade. Why? If the JB4 dosent do something or if there is some false advertising somewhere start a informative thread about it.

[themyst]

All the tunes with the boost cranked up on meth put out roughly the same numbers.

JB4 runs the stock timing curve, the Procede advances timing 1-2 degrees, the Cobb runs 2-3 degrees under the stock timing curve on meth.

I did 424whp on a 91 degree day with the Procede rev2 last year through the stock 135i catback with mids intact on 18.5 psi peak. It was a feat back then and now more people are replicating these results, if not besting them.

At this point, expectations are about 430whp FBO+meth, 400-410whp tune+meth. Everyone's putting out roughly the same numbers. Why bicker over granular details?

Anyway, nice results OP.

[thebigragu99]

Originally Posted by themyst

I don't understand what all the warring is about.

All the tunes with the boost cranked up on meth put out roughly the same numbers.

JB4 runs the stock timing curve, the Procede advances timing 1-2 degrees, the Cobb runs 2-3 degrees under the stock timing curve on meth.

I did 424whp on a 91 degree day with the Procede rev2 last year through the stock 135i catback with mids intact on 18.5 psi peak. It was a feat back then and now more people are replicating these results, if not besting them.

At this point, expectations are about 430whp FBO+meth, 400-410whp tune+meth. Everyone's putting out roughly the same numbers. Why bicker over granular details?

Anyway, nice results OP.

Great post!In the end, all 3 tunes are good in their own ways!

[hemi to e90]

wow, way to hijack a thread. reminds me why i bought a jb4