[normtrum]

Originally Posted by sambonator

I wonder how the admins determined that it was him? Just because it was a new account that immediately posted something positive about the JBS2?

You know, I could just as easily do the same thing, and so could anyone else, including those that desire to see Terry fail, by pretending to do be him.

Isn't there a way to tell? I am no computer expert at all, and probably never will be...but I thought there was a way to determine if you're on the same computer, but just changed your name.

[bnj]

Shiv uses customers in product testing - not in R&D Research and Development. Procede requires much more R&D and testing since it is a much more complex product. Since we know how JB2 works, would someone try to elaborate how the R&D process should have been implemented? It seems to me that coming up with the idea requires exceptional problem solving capabilities rather than R&D. And in ECU tuning industry you outsource the hardware and the components are developed by subcontractors.

[radgator1]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Be aware that the JB2 is necessarily running too rich to compensate for lack of timing control. It is a preventative measure against detonation for sure, but unburnt fuel also has negative consequences for the engine and cat life.

True, however we have AFR graphs from the Dyno runs and it looks like the AFR are pretty much the same as the PROcede but just more consistent from run to run.

[bnj]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Be aware that the JB2 is necessarily running too rich to compensate for lack of timing control. It is a preventative measure against detonation for sure, but unburnt fuel also has negative consequences for the engine and cat life.

I was thinking the same thing when learning that Procede runs rich compared to stock. However neither Procede nor Juicebox runs rich if you compare to what is typically undestood by running rich. They might not have much of unburned fuel. I don't think this is a problem. Better rich than lean.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Be aware that the JB2 is necessarily running too rich to compensate for lack of timing control. It is a preventative measure against detonation for sure, but unburnt fuel also has negative consequences for the engine and cat life.

You have to remember, the JB2 could just have easily been offered with no AFR enrichment, and made just as much power. The AFR enrichment IS FOR SAFETY and RELIABILITY. Keeping peak cylinder temps, EGT, etc, in check. From what we have seen so far on the graphs, the amount of AFR enrichment we are talking about here at higher loads is not so far out to worry more about premature cat failure, cylinder washing, etc...anymore than the risks associated with too lean a mixture.(knocking, higher EGTs , etc).
Furthermore, it helps to know the exact technical details of each system before you can draw an educated conclusion. However, it would be fair to say that the system that uses less boost and doesn't run too lean, might be one of the safest options. The SSTT raises boost but doesn't offer the enrichment of the JBS2, so therefore, it may make more power in some conditions (leaner is meaner), less in others.

With the simplicity of operation, the SSTT is nice in that there is fewer things to go wrong, but doesn't offer the benefits of enrichening the AFR when beneficial in the interests of safety.

The JBS2 gets great performance, for minimal boost. It doesn't overload the low rpms with excessive torque which will usually result in wheel spin on street tires any ways. The boost is only about 3 psi or so over stock. So the factory DME still has full control of knock since it is well within the timing control envelope.

With the Procede, you have the addition of timing control to allow the usage of much higher boost levels, especially at lower RPMs where knock is more inherent

So before you start jumping to conclusions, and most of us don't know enough to really know exactly how the DME responds to different scenarios, there are some fairly reasonable assumptions that can be made. The less things that you tinker with, and allow the factory DME safeguards to come in to play, the more reliable you will be in the end. Doesn't sound like a bad deal to let the DME control knock, limp mode, timing, etc..and still have great performance. When you start boosting more, it obviously creates more stress on the engine AND turbos. If you have to retard timing so much to compensate for the resultant knock, then you are kind of taking 2 steps forward and 1 step back. But the point is, you are relying on your AFTERMARKET solution to retard the timing for you when it is needed. IF THAT FAILS, when you are on high boost low RPM operation, then you are at the mercy of that unit that you are trusting. You no longer are within the safe operating parameters. That is probably one of the most critical scenarios is having high load, high boost, and then having your timing malfunction. So if you trust your aftermarket device to basically deceive what the DME is trying to attain, you are trusting that it provides you with the full safety net. In this case, it is not a defect in the factory installed equipment/DME that will cause your castastrophic failure. The more things that are altered, it would make sense, the more conflicts, CEL, and drivability issues that may materialize. True, with the JBS2, mixture could really get screwed up, but then again, if it runs lean, and knocks, the DME will react accordingly. The fact that it is doing it with less boost, brings you more into the safety envelope.The fact that there aren't any CEL, drivability issues, reinforces that finding.

So the bottom line is, many people seem to criticize the simpler solutions. But if you look at all the factors, sometimes the simpler/cheaper solutions actually stray less from the factory intended parameters. And if you can get great performance at the same time, then thats another plus..

[normtrum]

Originally Posted by bnj

Shiv uses customers in product testing - not in R&D Research and Development. Procede requires much more R&D and testing since it is a much more complex product. Since we know how JB2 works, would someone try to elaborate how the R&D process should have been implemented? It seems to me that coming up with the idea requires exceptional problem solving capabilities rather than R&D. And in ECU tuning industry you outsource the hardware and the components are developed by subcontractors.

So you don't think shiv does any map tweeking at all, based on beta tester feedback?

[bnj]

Tuning maps is not usually done based on driver feedback, except if they report misfire which would imply too agressive map. The map is for masses and can hardly be tuned too aggressively in the first place.
The above is not relevant for JB though, since it does not even have a map.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by bnj

Tuning maps is not usually done based on driver feedback, except if they report misfire which would imply too agressive map. The map is for masses and can hardly be tuned too aggressively in the first place.
The above is not relevant for JB though, since it does not even have a map.

Yup, just a simple and effective circuit. It pretty much relies on the factory DME map to make all the dynamic adjustments from the altered baseline on-boost settings. But still uses the factory DME based safeguards. The Procede is thousands of times more complex, (for better or worse). It constantly is altering different signals from the tuning map.

[tek818]

Originally Posted by sambonator

Did you ever figure out what code caused the limp mode?

I never got the actual code as I didn't have a code reader at the time. I had ///Matt check it out the next time I was at the dealership and he said it was some error with the T-Map sensor...

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by normtrum

Isn't there a way to tell? I am no computer expert at all, and probably never will be...but I thought there was a way to determine if you're on the same computer, but just changed your name.

Your I.P. address can tell you what network, and eventually what computer if you drill down far enough. However, I doubt this is how they came to think that it was Terry making those posts......

[DaveStinsman]

This is all so confusing because of all the personel opinions. Let the people just post what they have installed. Do they have any problems or CELs. No opinions on what they assume about the other products. Let the facts speak for themselves.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by DaveStinsman

This is all so confusing because of all the personel opinions. Let the people just post what they have installed. Do they have any problems or CELs. No opions on what they assume about the other products. Let the facts speak for themselves.

I tested out the JB2 for a couple weeks and it was very smooth and fun. There's a bunch of people talking trash on this product, but I personaly think that if he had a little bit better business ethic in the very beginning then people would think otherwise.
People also laugh at how he makes these in his garage, but how do you think the TT is made?
To the OP, read this thread on the dyno runs that I did on different tuners.
This might help you with your decision.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...916&highlight=

[kaji335i]

Originally Posted by normtrum

Isn't there a way to tell? I am no computer expert at all, and probably never will be...but I thought there was a way to determine if you're on the same computer, but just changed your name.

Mods can check the IP address that the post was made by, and can check to see if its out of the same address range that Terry originally posted from.

[slick101]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I tested out the JB2 for a couple weeks and it was very smooth and fun. There's a bunch of people talking trash on this product, but I personaly think that if he had a little bit better business ethic in the very beginning then people would think otherwise.
People also laugh at how he makes these in his garage, but how do you think the TT is made?
To the OP, read this thread on the dyno runs that I did on different tuners.
This might help you with your decision.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...916&highlight=

yea i did check out the dyno runs you did.. they were great... frm the runs you provided i think the JB2 should be given little more credit based on the facts you provided...i think it's little better than the sstt in performance... but since the majority of the people don't trust terry, i'm having a hard time convincing myself how reliable it would be...

[sambonator]

Originally Posted by kaji335i

Mods can check the IP address that the post was made by, and can check to see if its out of the same address range that Terry originally posted from.

The problem is, most ISP's dynamically assign IP addresses, and the larger ones constantly move ranges around different regions as they upgrade, repair or remap their network. Unless Terry requested and paid for a static IP from his ISP, and the admins logged the same originating IP, then they can't really tell who did the posting.

In any case, someone quoted "headparrot" who stated something like "why not try JBS2?" in a thread requesting help with misfire codes from Procede, so I assumed the admins were referring to that post. If this post came from the same IP address, or at least from the same /24 subnet, then it was likely him.

I'm not sure if the admins here would be willing to share information on how they came to the conclusion that "headparrot" was indeed Terry.

[lakerpride05]

Just get the JBS2! It completely transforms the power vs stock and is very well priced. I had Terry install my JB today after many problem with the Black Box. The power is the same, if not more, than the Black Box. If you are like me and just like to have the additional power and not go too crazy with cost get the JB Stage 2. The power is soooo smooth and refined. I dont know what all these ppl are talking about when they say Terry is a jerk. I met him today and he went out his way to help solve the problems on my Black Box, we got it working for about 20 min but then had codes thrown again due to a bad power cable. Anyhow, got sick of the Black Box and decided to give my business to Terry. He installed it and we went out for a drive. Wow!!! Instant gratification with no engine codes. Runs as smooth as stock but with so much more hp and torque!! Great guy, great service!

Love the product Terry, LOVE IT!!!!

[silvrevo]

If anyone has been to the Evo forums, like I have for the past 4.5 years. You would have seen Vishnu"shiv", and Dynoflash,"Al" go at it for pages. Weeks and Months.

That would make this look like ,, nothing.

Both guys were banned, put in timeouts. Its just here, one guy got the bad end of the deal.

Dyno flash also has the fastest 1/4 street driven evo. But his product was also said to be junk, untested, new, unsafe. go figure..

If your looking for a good piggyback, tuner, look past the personal remarks, and look at the power, price standpoint.

Maybe Terry should have played nicer, maybe he should have had his product priced in the $1k area,,,,,,, Maybe then this might not be an issue.

As for me Im leaning towards the JB2.

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by silvrevo

If anyone has been to the Evo forums, like I have for the past 4.5 years. You would have seen Vishnu"shiv", and Dynoflash,"Al" go at it for pages. Weeks and Months.

That would make this look like ,, nothing.

Both guys were banned, put in timeouts. Its just here, one guy got the bad end of the deal.

Dyno flash also has the fastest 1/4 street driven evo. But his product was also said to be junk, untested, new, unsafe. go figure..

If your looking for a good piggyback, tuner, look past the personal remarks, and look at the power, price standpoint.

Maybe Terry should have played nicer, maybe he should have had his product priced in the $1k area,,,,,,, Maybe then this might not be an issue.

As for me Im leaning towards the JB2.

Interesting...haven't seen that kinda fighting from Shiv here, just Terry flaming away on all threads. It still amazes (for the JB) me how people can look past the limited R&D, no experience in tuning, and the fact the product is 2 resistors. Makes me wanna go post a DIY and make your own for free...but I would never do that to a fellow BMW enthusiast.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by slick101

yea i did check out the dyno runs you did.. they were great... frm the runs you provided i think the JB2 should be given little more credit based on the facts you provided...i think it's little better than the sstt in performance... but since the majority of the people don't trust terry, i'm having a hard time convincing myself how reliable it would be...

I agree that it's somewhat unnerving to purchase something that the majority is against, but I can only speak with my experiences.

Did I have a problem?
No. But, I only had it on my car for a couple weeks.

Was it smoother than the Procede?
Yes. I found it to be smoother.

Was it as smooth as the TT?
Yes. The drivability of both felt the same.

Terry has had it on his car for quite some time and he's getting great times at the track. The reason why I ultimately went with a piggyback system was because the money wasn't really an option for me.

[E90Russ]

Originally Posted by silvrevo

If anyone has been to the Evo forums, like I have for the past 4.5 years. You would have seen Vishnu"shiv", and Dynoflash,"Al" go at it for pages. Weeks and Months.

That would make this look like ,, nothing.

Both guys were banned, put in timeouts. Its just here, one guy got the bad end of the deal.

Dyno flash also has the fastest 1/4 street driven evo. But his product was also said to be junk, untested, new, unsafe. go figure..

If your looking for a good piggyback, tuner, look past the personal remarks, and look at the power, price standpoint.

Maybe Terry should have played nicer, maybe he should have had his product priced in the $1k area,,,,,,, Maybe then this might not be an issue.

As for me Im leaning towards the JB2.

Valid point.

[5soko]

whoever said the SSTT runs lean is misinformed, i ran mine on a dyno and ran perfectly fine? i dont have the sheets at the moment i should be doing another dyno before i get my V2 in. :rocks:as for the JB2 comparing to the SSTT, sstt is much more easier to install, and gives equal power.

[jcarlucci1]

Originally Posted by 5sokol335icoupe

whoever said the SSTT runs lean is misinformed, i ran mine on a dyno and ran perfectly fine? i dont have the sheets at the moment i should be doing another dyno before i get my V2 in. :rocks:as for the JB2 comparing to the SSTT, sstt is much more easier to install, and gives equal power.

Wrong..TT does not have ANY fuel enrichment..this has been shown on dynos many times, including one done by shiv..pretty sure he isn't misinformed..and the jb2 has quite a bit more power as evidenced both by dynos and 1/4 mile trap speeds..