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Closed Deck vs Semi Closed Deck vs Open Deck Blocks
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05-11-2009, 10:17 PM | #67 |
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Based on?
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09-26-2013, 05:46 PM | #68 |
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just thought i'd resurrect this thread for a laugh
show how a few years ago people were trying to say 500BHP (not even WHP) would be the N54's limit, and people are now starting to go past 700whp without opening the engine at all :P |
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09-26-2013, 07:42 PM | #69 |
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Holy thread revival! Any new info out there regarding metallurgical info about the N54 along with wall thickness and cylinder dimensions? If we have the sleeve/cylinder composition data and dimensions, I could work it backwards and tell you exactly how much pressure the cylinder could take before popping.
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09-27-2013, 04:53 PM | #70 | |
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Ask this guy. He's got all the info you need (unfortunately)
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=893461 Quote:
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09-27-2013, 09:33 PM | #71 |
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This is some funny info. I say this because I have an open deck FRM sleeve stock block Honda S2k that wasn't meant for boost and is making 800+ whp (about 950 crank) on 34 psi with no issues and it's been like this for years. As a matter of fact, there are many stock block S2k's running around with 600+ whp with no issues. Even Laskey racing makes built open deck blocks for the S2k F20c and F22c that are making well into the 1000 whp arena. As long as you run good headstuds like L19's that will hold the pressure, open decks are very strong and will hold a lot of boost and power. Don't go get all caught up with this article because it's just plain BS.
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09-27-2013, 10:48 PM | #72 |
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Here's a true open deck block, it's from an old Porsche 944. Note the space between the cylinders, there's no support between cylinders like there is with the N54 block and other modern open deck blocks.
Also, the water jacket on the old Porsche is very deep which leaves the cylinders unsupported. In contrast, the bottom of the water jacket on the N54 is positioned halfway down the cylinder so the cylinder is supported at the pistons mid stroke. This adds quite a bit of rigidity at the point where the piston is seeing max thrust load. The old Porsche design let the cylinders move around slightly at high power levels which eventually wears down the headgasket, which is the reason I was able to take this pic. |
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09-27-2013, 11:44 PM | #73 |
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Nobody is going to ever make methanol dragster 2000+ hp numbers on an open deck aluminum block. Because that is relevant to anything.
Open decks can be strengthened if need be. At some point a limit will be found and people will accept it, be it 700whp or 1200whp. If you're building a funny car or a nascar you're not using a N54 is all I'm gonna say. |
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09-28-2013, 11:20 AM | #74 |
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What I found interesting going through this old thread is the example of the Mitsubishi motor. I never went through the V6 code but it was probably like the 4g63 code. The tables only supported up to about 14psi worth of load, which is why you had to run race gas at higher boost levels. The timing didn't continue to retard further as you added more boost. That changed later for the 1g 4g63s when we figured out how to double the load range of the tables at which point you could finally go kind of fast on pump gas without a standalone. It took until the EVO before the load range was made part of the table and could be changed in the table like you now see in the BWM code. That was why people blew up 90s Mitsu motors on pump gas.
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09-28-2013, 01:54 PM | #75 |
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n54 engine rebuilt
Here is my rebuilt n54 engine. We converted it from open-deck to semi-open-deck design as we use some support inserted between the cylinder wall and engine wall.
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01-11-2014, 05:47 PM | #78 | |
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This thread hurt my brain back then and it still does even today. |
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01-13-2014, 09:53 PM | #80 | |
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as for specific metallurgical info, you'd have to ask a BM engineer... cast iron sleeves is the only info probably anyone will have there lol. |
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01-13-2014, 10:03 PM | #81 | ||
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not like the N54's cylinders are fully floating and free to move as they please at least still, always excited to see where the platform finally lets go Quote:
well yeah, the motor already runs hot, just imagine it with slightly worse cooling yet again? pre-oil cooler days wouldn't only have seen motors limp mode, but likely totally blow. |
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01-13-2014, 10:13 PM | #82 | |||
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Quote:
And what Carl Morris said holds water and that is very recent news for the cars ecu thanks to monochrome.
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08-30-2016, 11:04 PM | #86 | |
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Quote:
I would think a low compression FI setup pushing alot of boost would still have lots of cylinder pressure vs. a high compression NA setup.
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08-30-2016, 11:36 PM | #87 |
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Closed has inherent advantages for strength. Open has inherent advantages for heat. With modern electronics, the advantages are nearly equal in the strength vs heat dissipation, as open allows for more average power via cooling efficiency at high temps, vs the heat sync closed deck allows for more error/detonation with heat management without failure.
This thread is old and you should feel bad. |
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08-30-2016, 11:58 PM | #88 | |
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