[doughboy]

Tony,

The area BMW Technical Manager - Alex Mead - called me on Wednesday about this issue.

He knew all about the history, but he insists that on MSD81 ECU car (i.e. mine) the retrofit option was never available in the conversions menu, only for MSD80 vehicles.

He also says as far as BMW are concerned there are no lag issues with MSD81 cars?!?!? He said my 'integration level' was already higher than that. I'm not sure what he means? If my car has ISTA2.33.0 with MSD81 (confirmed) is this a different V2.33.0 than for a car with MSD80??

Never the less, he was keen to discuss it a said he was concerned that I had a problem with the car, he is arranging an extra visit to Manchester in the next week or two so I can take him out to show him the issue directly. He is trying to find another MSD81 car with a manual box (nigh on impossible) for us to try side by side.

Fingers crossed.

[martin26]

just got my car ecu updated to cure rattle. rattle gone, but my car is now ruined. It used to rattle but was instantly responsive and really didnt feel like a turbo charged car at all.
The turbo lag response is so bad i want to take back the Fiesta loaner i had for 2 days while the update was done.

THe exhaust is notably louder on idle and pops on the over run, but is notably quieter under power....

I will take this thread to the dealer tomorrow. Has anyone got the PUMA document or number that might help....

Cheers
Martin

[seanblee]

I just printed the US TSB when I went in and highlighted the relevant section. My dealer had never heard of it, but was happy to give it a try.

[Em135eye]

It was a close call between a 335i and a 335d -maybe I made the right choice for once?! US 335i owners do seem to be having a lot of problems.

I had a VW issued software upgrade on my Golf R32 ECU - at 2.5k rpm it hesitated so badly that I nearly crashed twice (in one instance I couldn't get past a London Bus!!). Once it was done the car was utterly transformed. Totally different engine of course but still amazes me what a bit of software can do!

[creepy coupe]

I'm on V2 -34.0 with no issues

[doughboy]

The optional 'wastegate retrofit application' in the car setting options is only availble to cars with the older MSD80 ECU.

As described earlier in this thread, this was to be activated when a customer complained of excessive lag. By default it is OFF to stop any wastegate clunks or rattles, but this can cause lag.

Only a minority of buyers care about lag and performance (most on here I'm sure), the majority don't want rattles, so by default that is what you get, no rattles but dulled performance.

You need to check what ECU you have and what version they have uploaded to. Go to real oem to find out, my LCI car for example has the newer MSD81 unit, which according to BMW has never had the lag issue, and has newer wastegate design, thus there is no fix option for it. http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.d...78&hg=12&fg=10

BTW V2.35 is out about now and if you get that it will a) remove any remap and b) change the ECU encryption which means tuners will have to start cracking it all over again.

[creepy coupe]

Do we know what V2-35 has over V2-34?

[doughboy]

No, but a jump to new primary revision index i.e from 34.xx.xx to 35.xx.xx, in any kind of software, usually indicates pretty significant changes to firmware or other core coding.

But as BMW cannot upgrade the car without your express permission (and they seem to want it overnight for this anyway), I won't be allowing any upgrades until I've researched them in future - some how.

The old phrase 'if it ain't broke....' springs to mind.

Its your car (unless its a BMW lease maybe) and as such they your need permission to upgrade it. Unless its a safety type recall in which case you have to be notified in writing about it, and even then you don't HAVE to have it done.

We need to find a source for s/ware release notes.....

[martin26]

OK. Here goes....
my 07 335i had noisy wastegates. I took to dealer to fix. The dealer performed stage 1 of PUMA - upgrade ECU software. I got a car with less rattle, but terrible lag and a lot of exhaust noise. Popping on over run, and a lot of unsilenced noise (like a straight thru exhaust with too much fuel on overrun). Sounded nice if but the lag was horrible to drive compared to normal.

I complained like crazy and went to see technician who showed me the puma. It says "if the car has a 6mm wastegate actuator then upgrade ECU software and give the car back to the customer.

Only if the car has 8 mm actuators then go to stage 2 and enable wastegate retrofit."

Basically the new software holds the wastegates open below 3000 revs to stop the diaphragm rattling at low revs because they are poorly designed or calibrated or both. This fake fix means you have a quiet car. But it also means that the car doesnt build boost as quickly - you get a 1 second pause when you floor it and a lot of extra exhaust noise before the car really picks up. THe car is dosile unresponsive and laggy. Like an old fashioned turbo.

The wastegate retrofit enable is a software change, which closes the wastegates (like they should) at low revs so you have instant boost when you open the throttle (like you should) with these cars.

I complained like crazy some more. My dealer finally agreed to replace the wastegates with the latest 8 mm actuator models, and to enable wastegate retrofit.

This is an engine out job so not cheap...which is probably why BMW try to get away with stage 1....

Anyway I got the car back and the difference is INCREDIBLE.
1. THe turbo lag has completely GONE. The throttle response is back to RAZOR sharp again. It pulls like a train in all gears from low revs with instant grunt - like it should. I love my car again.
2. The race car sound effects have gone. I guess the wastegates being held open allows the gases to rush past the wastegate down the exhaust. If your stock car pops on the over run when changing down to first and is loud at low speeds (embarrasingly so when cold) then i suspect you too have not got wastegate retrofit enabled and you are missing out.
3. Now the car is quiet. I can now actually hear the turbos spooling up when opening the throttles below 3000 revs.

It took 2 weeks of emailing and phoning every day to hassle the dealer to hassle BMW to authorise stage 2, but boy was it worth it. I love the car again !

Thanks to E92 fan - the guardian angel of N54 enthusiasts!. Nobody knows more than you about this issue (although I have learned a LOT now). Thanks also to the new service manager at my local dealer who got all this sorted.

Just sharing my experiences.

[Dr Dave]

Engine out job eh? That won't be cheap or quick!

Shocking that BMW send cars out with a bodged half-way house fix like this for the 6mm models.

Good on you for getting the retrofit kit fitted! Nice work on both the SM at the dealership and yourself.

[doughboy]

Good work martin!

At least they can fix it on your 07 model.

There is no fix for the lag on my 09 model, it doesn't exist apparently

[rjm8282]

Think I might have this problem, see video

[martin26]

sounds like "return to dealer asap" noise to me. Mine never sounded anything like that.

[Mack335]

I agree, I have the wastegate rattle and it doesn't and has never sounded like that.

That sounds awful!

I had a software upgrade on my 57 E92 335i and it resulted in serious Turbolag. Itook it back to the dealer who then reset the parameters whilst leaving the upgraded software on, after a couple of weeks the turbolag disapeared but it still pops on the over run and still has the wastegate rattle.

Anyone any ideas on what I need to tell the dealer in order for them to fix?

Many Thanks

[doughboy]

It sounds fairly harmless, could be the wastegates I'd say.

Just get it back to them ASAP..

[rjm8282]

I'll update you all on Wednesday, its booked in with Coopers in Reading

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by rjm8282

Think I might have this problem, see video

That's just a particularly bad case of wastegate rattle. The fix as documented previously in this thread will be applicable here in the same way.

[rjm8282]

Thanks E92FAN,

[rjm8282]

Is it ok for me to keep driving her in this condition?

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by rjm8282

Is it ok for me to keep driving her in this condition?

Yes it's perfectly ok to drive, although I'd get it into a dealer sooner rather than later as that's a particularly bad case of dodgy wastegates!

[martin26]

MACK - its possible you may have just got used to the turbo lag. I dont think it can adapt itself away over time. Check with the dealer who updated your ECU to see if they also enabled "wastegate retrofit" during the upgrade. If so then your car is as good as it gets. If they havent then ask them why? IF they say its because you have 6mm wastegate actuators then ask them to upgrade the actuators and enable the wastegate retrofit in the ECU. The PUMA is 2 stages and (i am paraphrasing) says

1. Update ECU software and enable wastegate retrofit only if actuator shafts are 8mm in diameter.
2. If rattle persists then replace wastegate actuators and enable wastegate retrofit.

my car pops a little still on down change to 1st, but nowhere near as much before the retrofit was enabled.

[Mack335]

Thanks Martin

I don't think i iwll have had the retrofit as they haven't replaced any wastegates nad I assume as mine is Jun/July 07 build they will be the smaller items.

The exhaust note is the worst it is really starting to annoy!! It is back into the dealer in a couple of weeks and I have provided them with the details in your prev post.

As for the Turbolag, it definately like it was, previously it was only picking up at 2,550-3,000 rpm. Now its back to around 1,500.

Not sure what version software they put on but it was in july 09 so should be quite up to date.

Will let you know how i get on in a few weeks!!