[Pretender]

Originally Posted by Armen52

1) I
3) I see statements saying that there's enough room for 6 footers in the back of the E90 but I am going to have to dispute that claim. I am no taller than 5' 11" but my head, not hair, brushes the headliner when I sit in the back of my own car. It borders on uncomfortable, not that I've ever been there for a long time or while the car was moving. So unless I am very awkwardly proportioned (hope someone would have noticed by now), the backseat of the E90 is not a happy place for 6' and taller passengers for any long periods of time.

I still stand by my post regarding to the rear seat in 330i that would be fine for a 6-foot tall guy. As I said, I was driving my car with 3 friends from San Jose to Sacramento (~130 miles), a 5 ft 9 guy in the front pass. seat and the 5 ft 10 one right behind him in the rear. I asked him if he was okay in the back and he told me it was perfectly fine. Maybe my friend with regular build (170lbs) didn't have big feet (size 11?) and happened to sit in the right rear. So he felt comfortable throughout the trip back and forth.

[Hunter399]

Lets seeeeee one is a Honda and the other is a BMW.......

[carklat]

I traded in a 2004 TL with navigation yesterday on a 330xi with iDrive. A couple of quick observations. The Bluetooth works much better, and the phone book transferred where in the TL you had to manaully enter names and phone numbers. It also seems like the voice recognition is superior to what it was in the TL. I rarely used it in the TL because it didn't understand me. In using the voice recognition in the BMW last night and this morning, it never missed one of my commands. Though this is an individual taste thing, I think the BMW is just a much better looking vehicle. While I liked the TL, I love the BMW. It is just an amazing drive.

[NaTuReB0Y]

Originally Posted by hunter399@mac.com

Lets seeeeee one is a Honda and the other is a BMW.......

"one is a honda"...."one is a toyota"......"one is a volkswagon"......

i think anyone with half a brain would figure that out!

[RyBMW]

Originally Posted by D&G

You would not go wrong going with either vehicle. Here are the benefits I find comparing the TL and 330i:

1) TL is faster if comparing auto to auto/manual to manual.
2) TL has a better Navigation System if not one of the best in the market today. Voice activated and touch screan and ease of use.
3) TL is more roomier and feels more luxury and has nicer interior. (Guages are glowing blue/red with blue ambient light)
4) TL you will save yourself a good $4000-7000 because the TL comes fully loaded and the 330i you would have to add sport/premium package just to get what the TL comes with.
5) BMW 330i is a more fun vehicle to drive overall.
6) BMW handles better and is a true Sporty Sedan
7) BMW is a more solid built car over the TL.
8) BMW over Acura....Branding!!!!


Those are my honest opinion so take your pick. Let us know what you end up with.

1. TL is not faster.

2. TL does have the better navi. The best navi right now.

3. TL is roomier but not more luxurious. Interior looks nice but material and craftmanship is subpar.

4. TL is cheaper but you get what you pay for. Name one thing that the sports package on the 330i gets that the TL already has besides the memory seats? I wouldn't call the TL's suspension setup a sports suspension.

5. 330i is definitely the more exciting car to drive.

6. E90 is one of the only true sports sedans.

7. TL build quality is terrible.

8. Buy a car you like not just based on the brand.

If you want to save some money and also want a fun and exciting car to drive than 325i and G35 are better picks.

[RyBMW]

Originally Posted by carklat

I traded in a 2004 TL with navigation yesterday on a 330xi with iDrive. A couple of quick observations. The Bluetooth works much better, and the phone book transferred where in the TL you had to manaully enter names and phone numbers. It also seems like the voice recognition is superior to what it was in the TL. I rarely used it in the TL because it didn't understand me. In using the voice recognition in the BMW last night and this morning, it never missed one of my commands. Though this is an individual taste thing, I think the BMW is just a much better looking vehicle. While I liked the TL, I love the BMW. It is just an amazing drive.

I despised the bluetooth system in the TL. It would take forever to make a call. You can only dial by voice.

[DTM]

Originally Posted by Pretender

I still stand by my post regarding to the rear seat in 330i that would be fine for a 6-foot tall guy. As I said, I was driving my car with 3 friends from San Jose to Sacramento (~130 miles), a 5 ft 9 guy in the front pass. seat and the 5 ft 10 one right behind him in the rear. I asked him if he was okay in the back and he told me it was perfectly fine. Maybe my friend with regular build (170lbs) didn't have big feet (size 11?) and happened to sit in the right rear. So he felt comfortable throughout the trip back and forth.

If people have an issue with footroom they can always take off their shoes to fit their feet under the seat. Don't know how formal this is tho. I always do it on long trips when I sit in the rear.

[RGRAY]

Originally Posted by hunter399@mac.com

Lets seeeeee one is a Honda and the other is a BMW.......

I Have been driving Hondas for 21 years (I have a loaded 1998 now and I'm keeping it), but I though it was time for something FUN.

[NaTuReB0Y]

Originally Posted by RyBMW

7. TL build quality is terrible.

TL build quality is terrible? This is a person who already has a biased opinion about anything compare to his BMW.Gotta wake up and smell the roses buddy.....believe me, I love my E90, but I wouldn't go on and bash other car brands like that without conclusive evidence.

quality/reliability.....BMW is not even in the same boat with automakers like Lexus and Acura.....
but different automakers target different drivers/buyers.

If you wanted to keep both cars to 200,000 miles.....most likely, it will cost you at
least 4 times more to maintain the BMW than the TL.......that is just a fact!

[D&G]

Originally Posted by RyBMW

1. TL is not faster.

2. TL does have the better navi. The best navi right now.

3. TL is roomier but not more luxurious. Interior looks nice but material and craftmanship is subpar.

4. TL is cheaper but you get what you pay for. Name one thing that the sports package on the 330i gets that the TL already has besides the memory seats? I wouldn't call the TL's suspension setup a sports suspension.

5. 330i is definitely the more exciting car to drive.

6. E90 is one of the only true sports sedans.

7. TL build quality is terrible.

8. Buy a car you like not just based on the brand.

If you want to save some money and also want a fun and exciting car to drive than 325i and G35 are better picks.

As much as I love the E90 I would have to disagree with you in terms of TL is not faster than E90. Have you driven a TL before??? Have you seen the #'s. If we compare auto to auto or manual to manual the TL is a bit faster. I would really like to say the E90 is faster but I think BMW should of upped the torque band and that might help but TL has a much quicker response and pick up than we do. The TL is a pretty fast car if you haven't driven one. Go test drive one for a good 30mins and come back to your own car and tell me that the TL is slower. No way!!!

Secondly...I love the E90's I-drive which has significantly improved compare to the not user friendly from the same technology as the 7series. But BMW has made a huge stride to improve the I-drive which they have but I find the TL has a smarter and user friendly Navi.

You should really check out the TL and test drive one before making these assumptions here. I would love to say the E90 is a perfect car and beats every car in the mkt today. No car today is perfect and all cars are good in one way and bad another. It all comes down to personal perferences!!! For me I would choose the E90 no doubt about. But that doesn't make me telling other members here otherwise just the fact I am a E90 fan. I think ppl who bashes other cars are jealous of the other car. I have my pride with the E90 so no need to go there.

[NaTuReB0Y]

Originally Posted by D&G

As much as I love the E90 I would have to disagree with you in terms of TL is not faster than E90. Have you driven a TL before??? Have you seen the #'s. If we compare auto to auto or manual to manual the TL is a bit faster. I would really like to say the E90 is faster but I think BMW should of upped the torque band and that might help but TL has a much quicker response and pick up than we do. The TL is a pretty fast car if you haven't driven one. Go test drive one for a good 30mins and come back to your own car and tell me that the TL is slower. No way!!!

Secondly...I love the E90's I-drive which has significantly improved compare to the not user friendly from the same technology as the 7series. But BMW has made a huge stride to improve the I-drive which they have but I find the TL has a smarter and user friendly Navi.

You should really check out the TL and test drive one before making these assumptions here. I would love to say the E90 is a perfect car and beats every car in the mkt today. No car today is perfect and all cars are good in one way and bad another. It all comes down to personal perferences!!! For me I would choose the E90 no doubt about. But that doesn't make me telling other members here otherwise just the fact I am a E90 fan. I think ppl who bashes other cars are jealous of the other car. I have my pride with the E90 so no need to go there.

I agreed. Some BMW owners are so close-minded...try looking outside the box!

[RyBMW]

Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y

TL build quality is terrible? This is a person who already has a biased opinion about anything compare his BMW.
Gotta wake up and smell the roses buddy.....believe me, I love my E90, but I wouldn't go on and bash other car brands like that without conclusive evidence.

quality/reliability.....BMW is not even in the same boat with automakers like Lexus and Acura.....
but different automakers target different drivers/buyers.

If you wanted to keep both cars to 200,000 miles.....most likely, it will cost you at
least 4 times more to maintain the BMW than the TL.......that is just a fact!

This is a person who already has a biased opinion about anything compare his BMW?
Get your facts straight before you make assumptions. I do not think BMW is the best automaker in the world. I suggest you read my past posts.
There are not that many automakers out that I can beat BMW. Lexus and Infiniti are top two companies that I think definitely has a chance. I'm even considering the 2nd gen G35 coupe. I might even consider getting the IS350 if it was offered with a manual.

You're getting quality and reliability mixed together. Honda/Acura are reliable. I have no doubt about that. I'm talking about quality, build quality.

I owned a 03 Accord coupe, 3 04 TLs.
03 Accord coupe had interior parts fitted together poorly. Bumpers that don't fit evenly. Bumper paint doesn't match body paint.
I had 3 TLs because I bought a AT TL at first and wanted a manual. The first manual I received had the paint on the bumper bubbled up from the factory. Dealer gave me a new TL.
I had paint peeling on the front bumper and hood. The front bumper was fitted poorly at the factory and had the headlight scraping the paint off. Grille was fitted poorly also and was chipping the paint off the hood. Gaps when the glove compartment is closed. Gaps when the front doors are closed. Third brake light leaks onto the back window. Doors not aligned properly. Leather wrinkled badly after a while. Rattles everywhere. Drooping headliner. Paint on bumper doesn't match paint on body. I could go on and on and on.

I'm bashing based on my own evidence. Read my past posts and you'll see that I only bash on cars that I owned and hated because of problems. So, please get your facts straight next time.

[RyBMW]

Originally Posted by D&G

As much as I love the E90 I would have to disagree with you in terms of TL is not faster than E90. Have you driven a TL before??? Have you seen the #'s. If we compare auto to auto or manual to manual the TL is a bit faster. I would really like to say the E90 is faster but I think BMW should of upped the torque band and that might help but TL has a much quicker response and pick up than we do. The TL is a pretty fast car if you haven't driven one. Go test drive one for a good 30mins and come back to your own car and tell me that the TL is slower. No way!!!

Secondly...I love the E90's I-drive which has significantly improved compare to the not user friendly from the same technology as the 7series. But BMW has made a huge stride to improve the I-drive which they have but I find the TL has a smarter and user friendly Navi.

You should really check out the TL and test drive one before making these assumptions here. I would love to say the E90 is a perfect car and beats every car in the mkt today. No car today is perfect and all cars are good in one way and bad another. It all comes down to personal perferences!!! For me I would choose the E90 no doubt about. But that doesn't make me telling other members here otherwise just the fact I am a E90 fan. I think ppl who bashes other cars are jealous of the other car. I have my pride with the E90 so no need to go there.

Have I driven a TL before? I had 3. The TL has no low end torque.

[NaTuReB0Y]

Originally Posted by RyBMW

This is a person who already has a biased opinion about anything compare his BMW?
Get your facts straight before you make assumptions. I do not think BMW is the best automaker in the world. I suggest you read my past posts.
There are not that many automakers out that I can beat BMW. Lexus and Infiniti are top two companies that I think definitely has a chance. I'm even considering the 2nd gen G35 coupe. I might even consider getting the IS350 if it was offered with a manual.

You're getting quality and reliability mixed together. Honda/Acura are reliable. I have no doubt about that. I'm talking about quality, build quality.

I owned a 03 Accord coupe, 3 04 TLs.
03 Accord coupe had interior parts fitted together poorly. Bumpers that don't fit evenly. Bumper paint doesn't match body paint.
I had 3 TLs because I bought a AT TL at first and wanted a manual. The first manual I received had the paint on the bumper bubbled up from the factory. Dealer gave me a new TL.
I had paint peeling on the front bumper and hood. The front bumper was fitted poorly at the factory and had the headlight scraping the paint off. Grille was fitted poorly also and was chipping the paint off the hood. Gaps when the glove compartment is closed. Gaps when the front doors are closed. Third brake light leaks onto the back window. Doors not aligned properly. Leather wrinkled badly after a while. Rattles everywhere. Drooping headliner. Paint on bumper doesn't match paint on body. I could go on and on and on.

I'm bashing based on my own evidence. Read my past posts and you'll see that I only bash on cars that I owned and hated because of problems. So, please get your facts straight next time.

get your fact straight....i was only responding to post #71

[RyBMW]

Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y

get your fact straight....i was only responding to post #71

Post #71 is my post. I can bash the TL because I owned it before. I only bashed the TL not the whole Acura brand. Did you read any other posts that has me bashing other cars?

[Pretender]

Originally Posted by D&G

As much as I love the E90 I would have to disagree with you in terms of TL is not faster than E90. Have you driven a TL before??? Have you seen the #'s. If we compare auto to auto or manual to manual the TL is a bit faster. I would really like to say the E90 is faster but I think BMW should of upped the torque band and that might help but TL has a much quicker response and pick up than we do. The TL is a pretty fast car if you haven't driven one. Go test drive one for a good 30mins and come back to your own car and tell me that the TL is slower. No way!!!

I must laugh on this quote. Here my proof to you: my friend 05 TL got to smell my smoke last week when we tried for 1-block race during the lunch time. I used my DS at the red light then manually shift after that and smoked him good. Try it with any TL and you will see the 270-HP claim on TL is really deceiving.

[visor]

Originally Posted by Pretender

I must laugh on this quote. Here my proof to you: my friend 05 TL got to smell my smoke last week when we tried for 1-block race during the lunch time. I used my DS at the red light then manually shift after that and smoked him good. Try it with any TL and you will see the 270-HP claim on TL is really deceiving.

Yep, 3 things against the TL for 0-60:
1. FWD= mega torque steer
2. FWD= weight transfer AWAY from the drive wheels during hard acceleration
3. it's 270 hp is really rated SAE 258 hp. Honda/Acura had optimistically over-rated many of their engines by 5%, so they had to re-rate their engines in 2006 for many models eg. TL, RL, Accord, Civic.

[lux.sh]

Visor, that is not "over-rating". With higher octane gas, they do put out that number. Its not like they purposively advertised false output.
Due to new regulation, it has been corrected for 258hp. Its not just for TL. Many other companies had to restate their ratings because of this regulation.

That "FWD, torque steering, understeering" piece of crap is faster than our 330i.

Low-end torque does lack, but once lift occurs, that it screams just like any other typical hondas. great top-end. In a "race", top-end is what really matters anyway. Most of the time you are in high-rpm range. Low-end is meant for daily driving. Its not like TL's low-end torque is SOOO bad(like 4cyl hondas), that it can't be forgiven. You all need to stop under-rating a great car.

I owned a 03 Accord coupe, 3 04 TLs.
03 Accord coupe had interior parts fitted together poorly. Bumpers that don't fit evenly. Bumper paint doesn't match body paint.
I had 3 TLs because I bought a AT TL at first and wanted a manual. The first manual I received had the paint on the bumper bubbled up from the factory. Dealer gave me a new TL.
I had paint peeling on the front bumper and hood. The front bumper was fitted poorly at the factory and had the headlight scraping the paint off. Grille was fitted poorly also and was chipping the paint off the hood. Gaps when the glove compartment is closed. Gaps when the front doors are closed. Third brake light leaks onto the back window. Doors not aligned properly. Leather wrinkled badly after a while. Rattles everywhere. Drooping headliner. Paint on bumper doesn't match paint on body. I could go on and on and on.

RyBMW, you are a cool guy but I have to agree with several of your points in this thread.

Now, just because of your single experience, you shouldn't talk as if the TL itself as a car sucks in general. You should be careful on that, and make sure to talk in terms of "My experience with MY TL wasn't so pretty". My 2002 accord was perfectly fine. I hear much worse stories about our E90s in this board than your current story. Does that make E90s in general a "horrible" car? No i don't think so.

TL is a great car. Sorry you had all the bad experiences with hondas. Its just your luck in my opinion.

Now, don't even bring up the build quality. Japanese manufacturers(Toyota/Honda specific) are top-notch when it comes down to build quality.

[D&G]

Originally Posted by Pretender

I must laugh on this quote. Here my proof to you: my friend 05 TL got to smell my smoke last week when we tried for 1-block race during the lunch time. I used my DS at the red light then manually shift after that and smoked him good. Try it with any TL and you will see the 270-HP claim on TL is really deceiving.

Well that tells you that you are a better driver than your friend. Or your reaction time is quicker than he is. Many Magazine has stated the 0-60 for the manual to hit 5.7secs for the TL and 6.1sec for 330i. I have driven alot of fast car from my experience and the TL is no slow car. But after driving it then driving the 330i I have notice quite a difference in hp/speed. No joke!!! But I did not care because the 330i was alot of fun to drive. If I wanted a fast car I would of bought myself a M3.

[Wildcat Jon]

Build quality on early 04 TLs was suspect. It is one of the few Acura's Consumer Reports has listed as "average" reliability. My 04 TL is gone for that very reason. I can't go into detail due to confidentiality issues, but search the web for the name of a certain yellow fruit and a certain "upscale" Japanese version of a Honda Accord and you might find some interesting reading out there. Maybe the 05-06 models have improved. . . .

[wheeler]

Originally Posted by lux.sh

Visor, that is not "over-rating". With higher octane gas, they do put out that number. Its not like they purposively advertised false output.

Did BMW have to rerate any of their HP numbers? Uh, no.

With nitro, my Bimmer will hit 350 hp. Is that not overrating my HP?

I'm not trying to bash anyone, or any brand, but you have to incredibly naive to believe that they (Honda, Toyota) did not know they were measuring HP using every trick they could find to get the highest possible number for marketing purposes.

New standards eliminated their use of those tricks, hence lower numbers.

[RyBMW]

Originally Posted by lux.sh

RyBMW, you are a cool guy but I have to agree with several of your points in this thread.

Now, just because of your single experience, you shouldn't talk as if the TL itself as a car sucks in general. You should be careful on that, and make sure to talk in terms of "My experience with MY TL wasn't so pretty". My 2002 accord was perfectly fine. I hear much worse stories about our E90s in this board than your current story. Does that make E90s in general a "horrible" car? No i don't think so.

TL is a great car. Sorry you had all the bad experiences with hondas. Its just your luck in my opinion.

Now, don't even bring up the build quality. Japanese manufacturers(Toyota/Honda specific) are top-notch when it comes down to build quality.

You're right. I should've said "My experience with my TL". I didn't mean to make it seem like the TL is a terrible car. I just wanted to explain what problems I had.

I miss that car somtimes. The engine was great. Powerful and smooth. Clutch and tranny are one of the best I ever driven. The ELS DVD-A sound system is awesome.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but the TSX and RL doesn't have the build quality flaws. I think it has something to do with the Marysville, Ohio plant where the cars are built. But this might not be true. My uncle's 04 Altima, built in TN, is rock solid. Not one single rattle. Albeit the interior material is cheap but it's put together well. The car has 60K miles already . Bought it in Feb. 04.

There are rumors of the next gen TL being equipped with the SH-AWD.