[Kerr]

Originally Posted by rsmallwo

Hmmm, I might not have worded it correctly. I did think that from a Physics point of view, Diesel contains more energy than petrol for the same volume of fluid. See quote ripped from internets:

"Diesel fuel has a higher energy density than gasoline. On average, 1 gallon (3.8 L) of diesel fuel contains approximately 155x106 joules (147,000 BTU), while 1 gallon of gasoline contains 132x106 joules (125,000 BTU). This, combined with the improved efficiency of diesel engines, explains why diesel engines get better mileage than equivalent gasoline engines"

YEs, a simplistic source but its still true:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel3.htm

Going back to my schooling days here.....

Diesel is very dense horrible stuff but used under the right conditions and heavy compression it does deliver a lot of energy.

Technically the diesel engine itself isn't very efficient. It loses more energy as it completes more energy transfers than a petrol engine.

Is it not the case that many manufacturers are struggling with the latest efficiency regulations with diesel engines?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

If you were really that concerned about fuel economy and depreciation you would have bought a tiny totty little used car, never a new 335i or 335D. Simples. So the article is not very pertinent to 335i/D drivers.

D.

I think on this forum, most are not buying on running costs, but more on what we want to drive. But to be fair, that is not the norm for millions of motorists, costs are a big part of the decision making process. Particularly because for some reason, fuel costs dominate the thinking, rather than the cost per mile over ownership, compared to the other options.

Even for the enthusiast, take the 335i vs, 335d cost issue. If we are the sort of guy that wants a new car and change before depreciation stabalizes, it is better to buy the 335d for obvious reasons. But if we go into the used market as plil200tdi has, the 335i can make a very competitive option. And get that 'fun factor' from the engine that I think most will agree the diesel doesn't really deliver. (Yes I know we can like the torque delivery, "but that ain't everything", is it?)

Originally Posted by phil200tdi

Compare the amount of cash you will lose during your ownership and not the percentage drop.

I.e. when I bought my 335i, I paid £17k. The equivalent 335d was £23k. Hence although my car is now only worth £12k vs the diesels £17k I have lost less in cash terms. The gap between the two will continue to close as they depreciate further.

Exactly the point.

But we see it isn't just the fuel costs here, we also buy into lower depreciation. The REAL cost in motoring.

As to buying cheaper cars that don't fall off the cliff depreciation wise, I have a close friend who has run a new small Fiat for 3-years, covered 56k miles and over 50mpg (in a petrol). It was coming out of warranty and a few things like tyres and possibly a clutch were on the cards in short order. He intended to run it into the ground for very cheap motoring. He popped into the Fiat dealer for something else, and they had the same model car with 4-miles on the clock, £4,000 to change. A no brainer really, £4,000 for 56k miles over 3-years, that is cheap motoring. He's now into a new car again, another 3-year warranty, costs controlled. With the impending costs, he reckons the real cost (to him) has been about £3,500 which is very low losses over 3-years.

HighlandPete

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I think on this forum, most are not buying on running costs, but more on what we want to drive. But to be fair, that is not the norm for millions of motorists, costs are a big part of the decision making process. Particularly because for some reason, fuel costs dominate the thinking, rather than the cost per mile over ownership, compared to the other options.

HighlandPete

I've not been in disagreement with that ...

Originally Posted by Dave_3

And if I had bought my 335D as a way to save on fuel costs it would be a perfectly legitimate point.

I personally didn't care whether it was finacially prudent to buy a new 335D, I simply bought what I wanted.

The "I'd rather take a 2nd hand X than a new car " is not really the topic of the article, more a discussion about the percieved wisdom that Diesels automatically = Economy.

The article is certainly useful for debate, but as we agree not entirely pertinent to most members of this Forum.

D.

[pjs]

Thought I'd add a little to this thread as I'd class my self as a cost concious fairly high mileage driver, consistently doing 25k per year for the last 10 years.

From 06 to 09 I had a e90 330d and averaged 36mpg. Bought at £30k, sold for £13k
From 09 to 11 I had a e92 335i and averaged 26mpg. Bought at £22k, prob worth £10k now and gave it to the wife.

I went to the 335i because at the time, the increased fuel costs were off set by lower depreciation.

I then went to the Mercedes 250Cdi as last November cos with fuel costs spiralling I thought only a 4 pot diesel could get me close to 50mpg. Its actually averaged 42mpg over 19k miles now.

All the above mpg figures are comparable on 70% motorway driving at 90-100 + 30% urban.

Next -hoping for a cheap 640d when all the lease cars are returned!

[xs2man]

Originally Posted by pjs

Thought I'd add a little to this thread as I'd class my self as a cost concious fairly high mileage driver, consistently doing 25k per year for the last 10 years.

From 06 to 09 I had a e90 330d and averaged 36mpg. Bought at £30k, sold for £13k
From 09 to 11 I had a e92 335i and averaged 26mpg. Bought at £22k, prob worth £10k now and gave it to the wife.

I went to the 335i because at the time, the increased fuel costs were off set by lower depreciation.

I then went to the Mercedes 250Cdi as last November cos with fuel costs spiralling I thought only a 4 pot diesel could get me close to 50mpg. Its actually averaged 42mpg over 19k miles now.

All the above mpg figures are comparable on 70% motorway driving at 90-100 + 30% urban.

Next -hoping for a cheap 640d when all the lease cars are returned!

42 mpg aint bad at all considering the bulk of the driving is 90-100 mph. Especially in a 200 BHP diesel.

[dxb335d]

In very interested to hear about your time with the 335 Pauly mate!

[pjs]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

In very interested to hear about your time with the 335 Pauly mate!

Erm, i'm sure you've read enough over the last couple of years to know my 335i ownership has been pretty eventful Carl....

So Diesel or Petrol????

[Ligumo]

I got a 2 year old 320d MSport last month and the amount of money it's saved me over my old E36 320i Auto is eyewatering - currently doing ±11p per mile, as opposed to the 21p per mile I did in my old car!

No plans to get on the change car every three years treadmill, don't care what other people think about what I drive, I love my new car, it looks nice, it's cheap to run and most of all I enjoy washing it and looking at it on my driveway.

Plan on owning it for many a year, unless BMW make an even more economical 3/4 series coupe. Or maybe would consider getting a 3/4 Alpina D3 if I could see there was much benefit over a regular BMW (Always loved Buchloe's finest, but now wondering what you get for the premium).

In my experience, much cheaper to run, and aren't bothered about depreciation. You don't buy a car as an investment!

Anyway, as you were...

[acerboo]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Out of those two, your choice is a no brainer!!

my point is that the 330i and 335d on paper are very close on power and performance but in reality you have to work the 330 much harder and therefore the 335 (for me) is the nicer car. driving the 2 side by side the 335 appears to be much quicker.

[dxb335d]

Yeah acer, the 335 is MUCH quicker.

[rogerxp]

So, the question really is, do I stick with the Zed (returning real-life average of 19mpg) or get a 330d (real-life mpg 32mpg if my memory serves me correct) - lets say 8,000 miles p/a - who's got a calculator to hand.

Note - both these averages contain very little motorway work, if my mileage goes up, it's fair to say my motorway mileage will too stretching the mpg out.

You back from jollies Paul or still over there??

[pjs]

Originally Posted by rogerxp

So, the question really is, do I stick with the Zed (returning real-life average of 19mpg) or get a 330d (real-life mpg 32mpg if my memory serves me correct) - lets say 8,000 miles p/a - who's got a calculator to hand.

You back from jollies Paul or still over there??

Just back mate, filled up the merc and drove all the way from Paris to Sunny Yorkshire yesterday and still have just over a quarter of a tank left....

And get the car you want - any petrol/derv debate for you is pointless.

[rogerxp]

Originally Posted by pjs

Just back mate, filled up the merc and drove all the way from Paris to Sunny Yorkshire yesterday and still have just over a quarter of a tank left....

And get the car you want - any petrol/derv debate for you is pointless.

Hope you had a good time fella - I'll speak to you in the week fella with an update - will obviously let you settle in first

I'm number crunching as we speak as I've found a potential motor (factoring in that in Sept I'll need new road tax - £470, a service - £300?, probably two rear tyres - £650, I've scratched some paint - £250, and one alloy is completely fucked - £75 to be done properly?)