[OpenFlash]

Mike- The first one is cause by traction control intervention. Look at the rpm log. N00b.

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

See my next post, my intention was, its cool for people to learn...

But starting to learn after having full bolt ons, Meth, 18+ PSI, nitrous? upgraded turbos? Then you start asking about ignition timing? and Air fuel? How to read logs? how to produce logs? What they mean?

Thats like paying for a wedding and forgetting to ask the bride if she want to marry you, its simply backwards.

That I agree...before pushing the car and adding mods to it, you should have an understanding of how it will effect your car and what needs to be done to run it safely, and by doing so its imperative that you log and understand what the logs are showing...

[maui86]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Mike- The first one is cause by traction control intervention. Look at the rpm log. N00b.

I laughed hard. I am no expert, but I caught that. Probably because I noticed the trend on my car in first gear.

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by maui86

I laughed hard. I am no expert, but I caught that. Probably because I noticed the trend on my car in first gear.

Hey T...hows that install going man!

[adrian@vishnu]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Mike- The first one is cause by traction control intervention. Look at the rpm log. N00b.

HA HA!! Took me about 1 second to work that out. If the DBW throttle was logged it would be more obvious, but very clear from the RPM and boost logs. Notice how RPM stops increasing (flatlines), and pre throttle boost takes a little spike indicating throttle closure. This means the timing spike was caused by a big reduction in actual engine load which is the manifold pressure due to DTC closing throttle. The giveaway should have been that it happend at the beginning of the run in a low gear.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Mike- The first one is cause by traction control intervention. Look at the rpm log. N00b.

I'm just pointing out the drop. Could be DTC related but could also be massive knock causing the engine to stutter. The bigger concern is the timing drop in 4th gear under full boost. Also boost dropping from ~20psi to ~10psi at the shift is awfully strange. That can't be intentional?

Mike

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu

Mike (Terry),

Seriously.... I just designed a PCB assembly for some other work I do that will sell in the range of 500,000 per year. Let me know when you reach 5% of that. Your numbers are wrong. I have been doing volume production designs including for companies with inhouse manufacturing capability for over 15 years. You maybe abot to argue lies with less informed, but not with me. And I have seen no evidence that you have made any surface mount PCBs in any volume before. I am not going to argue with you any more.... your numbers are wrong, you will realise this when you go to get them made.

It is easy to say stuff is common sense when you see them done. Many things are patent protected that are common sense when you think about it. The fact is that these things were not common sense until we worked them out, and you then copied us it much lower development cost. The fact remains... BMS has NEVER released any new feature or anything else that Procede has copied, and every feature Procede has released has already been or is planned to be copied by BMS.... Maybe Vishnu just have much more common sense??

Adrian

If you say so Adrian. But the first website that come up when I typed in "pcb manufacturing" in google was a place called "sunstone". I typed in your dimensions and selected 6 layer and the price for 1000 was $6.28 not including a 20% first time discount bringing the cost down to $5.02. They also offer free shipping. That was the first link I clicked so I'm sure with some work I can get that price down to $4.00 as I suggested. Especially if you order more than 1000. I did some research and assembly is around $8.75 per board ($8750 for 1000) in the USA and probably much less overseas.

On the features BMS was the first to offer a downpipe solution, first to offer map switching without the use of an external device, first to offer a true pass through mode, first to perform fuel pressure control, first to offer a color coded PnP harness w/ single box, etc. And of course has had a very positive impact on overall pricing for the entire N54 tuning community. Remember when the PROcede was $1495?

Mike

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I'm just pointing out the drop. Could be DTC related but could also be massive knock causing the engine to stutter. The bigger concern is the timing drop in 4th gear under full boost. Also boost dropping from ~20psi to ~10psi at the shift is awfully strange. That can't be intentional?

Mike

Please stop your nonsense. The first drop out is clearly a 0 advance event caused by traction control intervention, NOT knock. It is caused when the traction control system induces a throttle closure and manifold pressure spikes well above the DME boost target. Nothing to do with knock and you know it. Even for the uninformed, you can see that it doesn't demonstrate the telltale positive decay/recovery slope that you see with knock retard. But rather it jumps back up immediately once traction is recovered. And you can see traction being lost/recovered clearly in the RPM log which has a steep vertical rise (tire spin) and then a horizontal section (traction recovery) followed by a rise again (normal acceleration).

And the last knock even is hardly a engine breaker. You know that because that is exactly what happened when enrita ran the JB3 (cracked piston ring resulting in $12k engine rebuild). And you can see, in the logs, that the knock issue with the JB3 was an order of magnitude more severe. So please stop playing your games. You are just embarrassing yourself.

shiv

[OpenFlash]

I just saw his last post regarding PCB quotes. God, he doesn't know when to quit.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I'm just pointing out the drop. Could be DTC related but could also be massive knock causing the engine to stutter. The bigger concern is the timing drop in 4th gear under full boost. Also boost dropping from ~20psi to ~10psi at the shift is awfully strange. That can't be intentional?

Mike

You are struggling mike, like STRUGGLING.



I think the majority here would better see you agree once with something, then scramble about, beating around the bush, and changing "what you really mean to say" all the time.

Massive knock? then 10+ ignition right after, mid gear? While the RPMS are not increasing? Yet Full throttle?

Do the math! Its traction control!!!!!

Forget it, I rather text my gf then read this nonsense, and thats saying something!

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I just saw his last post regarding PCB quotes. God, he doesn't know when to quit.

it would be nice for you and the community as a whole if you didnt have to respond, but honestly you do.

and so does Merry.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Please stop your nonsense. The first drop out is clearly a 0 advance event caused by traction control intervention, NOT knock. It is caused when the traction control system induces a throttle closure and manifold pressure spikes well above the DME boost target. Nothing to do with knock and you know it. Even for the uninformed, you can see that it doesn't demonstrate the telltale positive decay/recovery slope that you see with knock retard. But rather it jumps back up immediately once traction is recovered. And you can see traction being lost/recovered clearly in the RPM log which has a steep vertical rise (tire spin) and then a horizontal section (traction recovery) followed by a rise again (normal acceleration).

And the last knock even is hardly a engine breaker. You know that because that is exactly what happened when enrita ran the JB3 (cracked piston ring resulting in $12k engine rebuild). And you can see, in the logs, that the knock issue with the JB3 was an order of magnitude more severe. So please stop playing your games. You are just embarrassing yourself.

shiv

You mean when he was running 1/2 the meth flow and knock inducing plugs two of your large turbo customers are now in the process of removing? The six degree timing drop under full boost seems like an obvious serious issue for him to work on. As is the massive boost decay at the shift. Why is everything a battle royal with you?

Mike

[mke135i]

I'm sorry, I read only until page 17, but, what was the verdict of the fault on the OP's engine?
If it can't be made public for some reason, can someone please PM me?

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by mke135i

I'm sorry, I read only until page 17, but, what was the verdict of the fault on the OP's engine?
If it can't be made public for some reason, can someone please PM me?

The first post has an updated post from the owner of the car. Doesn't go into much detail but thats all the info we have right now.

Mike

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

You mean when he was running 1/2 the meth flow and knock inducing plugs two of your large turbo customers are now in the process of removing? The six degree timing drop under full boost seems like an obvious serious issue for him to work on. As is the massive boost decay at the shift. Why is everything a battle royal with you?

Mike

Pot calling the kettle black.....

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

The first post has an updated post from the owner of the car. Doesn't go into much detail but thats all the info we have right now.

Mike

Again. You are hiding the truth. Is it true that BMS is compensating Sevak an undisclosed amount of money for his engine failure in exchange for keeping many details that lead up to the failure off the forum? It's pretty easy to see this if you read between the lines. And I know for a fact that they did the same thing with another customer who recently had an engine failure while running a JB3.

So instead of purposely deceiving the readers, you should just learn to stay hushed. It will work out better for you sales. You really aren't doing yourself any favors here.

shiv

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

On the features BMS was the first to offer a downpipe solution, first to offer map switching without the use of an external device, first to offer a true pass through mode, first to perform fuel pressure control, first to offer a color coded PnP harness w/ single box, etc. And of course has had a very positive impact on overall pricing for the entire N54 tuning community. Remember when the PROcede was $1495?

Mike

I'm sorry, but being first with gas pedal switching with the engine off is nothing to brag about.

But I almost forgot about that $20 hardswitch for switching on the fly that I spent half a day splicing into my cabin

IIRC as soon as the next version of JB was released that switch never worked properly.

I actually felt relieved once I got it out of my car.

BTW....I paid $695 for my Procede

[ZTUNER]

The whole idea of "copying ideas,features is wrong" is silly. In every industry people copy ideas, features and reverse engineer products. Its a fact of life and both sides need to get over it.

I feel that Shiv makes a good product but has a huge ego issue which requires him to put down bms and anything related to tuning including the giac reflashes. I would not sit on a public forum taking every opportunity to beat down a competitor when time could be better spent developing your product.

Yeah so some guys car blew up, he made the wrong choice blah blah blah. Just let it go. Eventually enough bms cars will blow and all the business will go to Procede. Why argue endlessly, if you know your product is better ?

If you want to contribute to a tech post do it but don't deride a competitor, take the higher road and don't get butt hurt just because someone "copied" your ideas and sold it for less. There is a market for each type of product. I can assure you if bms did not exist you would not automatically get all his customers because not all 335 owners are willing to buy a $1000 piggy.

And For the record imo cps offsetting is better than the alternate solution.

Harry

[adrian@vishnu]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

If you say so Adrian. But the first website that come up when I typed in "pcb manufacturing" in google was a place called "sunstone". I typed in your dimensions and selected 6 layer and the price for 1000 was $6.28 not including a 20% first time discount bringing the cost down to $5.02. They also offer free shipping. That was the first link I clicked so I'm sure with some work I can get that price down to $4.00 as I suggested. Especially if you order more than 1000. I did some research and assembly is around $8.75 per board ($8750 for 1000) in the USA and probably much less overseas.

On the features BMS was the first to offer a downpipe solution, first to offer map switching without the use of an external device, first to offer a true pass through mode, first to perform fuel pressure control, first to offer a color coded PnP harness w/ single box, etc. And of course has had a very positive impact on overall pricing for the entire N54 tuning community. Remember when the PROcede was $1495?

Mike

Your original statement:

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

A 6 layer 3"x5" PCB in quantities of 1000 is $3-4 at most. The processor was $11 and everything else a small fraction of that. Assembly is a few dollars and the cases a few dollars as well.

So your PCB is around double your first claim and your assembly is about tripple your claim.... and this is for quantity of 1000. Given the rate at which you change the hardware, 1000 would be an unwise choice, so add some more cost. You will also find your casing cost will be alot more than a few dollars. I am just saying that the $60 you through out there in your first post is actually about half the real cost... like your other estimations. Anyway, I am done with that. I do this stuff all day every day, so don't need your advice on it.

I like the map switching claim.... like it was somehow better than on the fly switching!! And the "true" pass through mode as opposed to our "false" one!! And I think we beat you with most of the other things anyway. I like how you assume if BMS test something without releasing it before we go to market that you beat us... you seem to assume we havn't spent months testing things before we release it?

$1495 was an appropriate price at the time. Nobody knew how much this market would takeoff. We may have only sold 300 in total for all we knew then. $1495 would not cover the development costs at that volume back then. It is the high volume market and associated economy of scale that has enabled the lowering of prices.

Adrian

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu

$1495 was an appropriate price at the time. Nobody knew how much this market would takeoff. We may have only sold 300 in total for all we knew then. $1495 would not cover the development costs at that volume back then. It is the high volume market and associated economy of scale that has enabled the lowering of prices.

Adrian

That wasn't covered until the Business 102 class

[OpenFlash]

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I got a new ride
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ok.... my apologies for contributing to all this talk of copying/cost of manufacturing/etc. Probably best that we get back on topic.

[BrianMN]

Hahahaha well admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery!