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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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E90 Professional HiFi stereo upgrade
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06-22-2009, 07:15 AM | #89 | |
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"Best fit" depends on what you want, installation, your budget. You should download the owner's manuals on each manufacturer website first and learn for yourself the individual features and capabilities of these units before making any decision. For example, the DQL-8i that I recommended before is easier to install than the DQXS (these devices are techical and feature-wise identical) just because of the wired inputs vs. RCA inputs respectively. However, the more efficient processor of these two for the HiFi is the DQXS, as its inputs are low level. What that means is that the HiFi OEM HU low level outputs can be used directly as inputs of the DQXS without any unnecessary high to low conversion as in the DQL-8. That conversion will attenuate you input signal so you will need to increase the gains in the DQL-8i more than what is considered "normal" to compensate for the low inputs levels. Depending of the installation and tuning this high gain adjustments could cause noise. There is no such attenuation with the DQXS, actually the inputs will be increased in voltage immediately by raising the input gains as this is a line driver and not a line converter input section. So you will have a much better range of gain adjustments and output voltage in the DQXS and a better capability of reducing noise -if any. The downside is that you will need to solder RCA plugs into the OEM HU output wires to use the DQXS. |
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06-23-2009, 02:30 AM | #90 |
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I have a budget around $1500-2000 to upgrade my car. I searched the posts to try to understand the upgrade path since I am newbie in this area. Here is what I understand, pls correct me if I'm wrong.
<<My understanding>> The full path of audio signal processing: [Summing] -> [Normalization] -> [De-processing] -> [EQ] -> [Crossover] -> [Amplify] [Summing]: take all of the input audio signal and merge them to a full range signal [Normalization]: flating the input signal which means all the frequence of the signal has the same intensity(dB). [De-Processing]: remove the EQ in the input signal [EQ]: add new EQ to signal [Crossover]: divide the signal by frequency [Amplify]: change the input into a high level signal for driving the loudspeakers The following table summrized the process way in each phase. Summing..........Analog Normalization....Analog De-processing...Analog EQ..................Analog or Digital Crossover........Analog or Digital Amplify............Analog <<Question>> 1) For the E90 with HIFI configruation, the HU output signal is flat. so it can be used directly without "summing" and "Normalization", right? 2) For the EQ, The HU has the treble/bass setting, so "de-processing" is required. Is it still need if set these EQ setting off in HU? <<configuration>> Would you pls give your suggestion for my configuration. BTW, any comments about MACROM's speaker since there is a local dealer here. For the DSP, do u think Audison bit1 is the perfect one? since I saw it in your post at m3post. Thanks a lot! |
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06-23-2009, 08:44 AM | #91 | ||
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Hi, welcome, happy to help.
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Your signal path list is mostly correct. The normalization and de-processing are the same thing, and should probably be called "de-equalization", since there is no other change occurring with any product I've tested. The de-equalization can be analog or digital, but with most current products it is digital. So I would state it this way (this is my understanding of signal flow for, say a 360.2 or an Audio Control DQL-8): "Line Output Conversion" (attenuation of speaker-level signals, isolation of grounds, impedance matching) (analog) Summing (analog) Analog to digital conversion De-EQ and EQ (digital) crossover (digital) time delay (digital) output level (digital (I think)) digital to analog conversion output to amplifiers (analog) As you say, in the above signal chain, if you are using the analog flat, full-range outputs of the HU, you don't need a lot of that. You don't need attenuation, you don't need summing, you don't need de-EQ. I have not seen Macrom speakers in the US in a long time They used to have a good reputation, but there was some relationship with Morel here in the US in the past which I think is no longer in effect. |
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06-24-2009, 05:38 AM | #92 |
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VP Electricity, thanks for your post which help me a lot!
I am confused with low level and high level signal. Many DSP or AMP can accept both of them, but how to determine a signal is low level or high? Can I say line level is low level and speaker level is high level? differential signal is low and unbalanced signal is high? Technic said "... the HiFi OEM HU low level outputs can be used directly as inputs of the DQXS without any unnecessary high to low conversion as in the DQL-8". So the output of HU is low level and DQXS also regards it as low level input, but DQL-8 regards it as high level? When high to low conversion is required? it is device dependant? Next question is about the flat signal. Can I think that All frequence waves in the flat signal has the same amplitude? What is the benifit to use a flat signal as input? Back to my configuration, I am thinking about the DSP with digital SPDIF input since I plan to install a carputer. Using a sound card with SPDIF output, the SQ may better. OEM HU will take charge of RADIO. PC will play mp3 and DVD audio. Both of them can play CD. (I am not sure if PC can adjust the volume) . OEM HU ----> DSP --> AMP(s) --> Speakers PC ------> . Alpine has some such products. for example PXA-701, PXA-H900, PXI-H990. Audison also announce the bit one, but I can not find bit1 in Audison website (out of market?). Any experience or suggestion about such DSP? Last edited by efunroom; 06-24-2009 at 07:34 AM.. |
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06-24-2009, 10:42 AM | #93 | ||||
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I avoid the use of the term "line level" because it means different things to different people, especially in pro audio compared to car. I always used it to describe low-voltage preamp signals, but pro signals can be very different. Quote:
I am not too familiar with all the Audio Control products, but I think that technic is referring to the fact that some have RCA connectors and balanced circuitry on those inputs, and some have high-level LOC circuitry on bare wire inputs. A true balanced input can accept low-voltage preamp signals, and it can accept medium-level speaker signals (such as from a deck or a small OE amp). It doesn't work as well with very high-power amplifier signals such as from bigger OE amplifiers. That's where the LOC inputs com in, such as in the LC6/7/8 and the DQL-8. The DQL-8 is essentially an LC8 and a DQXS in one box, with the signal going into the LC8, and the output of the LC8 going to the DQXS. Quote:
A pink noise signal has equal energy at each octave. Quote:
When working with SPDIF outputs, you will get much better sound quality than with most PC soundcards, but you will have a volume control problem. The control panel for the audison bitONE would solve that problem, I believe (again, Technic knows more about this product than I do, he has one and mine has not arrived yet). It sounds like you will want to do in-depth research on this question. |
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06-25-2009, 09:58 AM | #94 |
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I want to double confirm that the output signal of the E90 OEM HU (HIFI option) is balanced & low-level & pre-amp & flat. --- what voltage of the signal (Vrms)? --- It can be directly plugged to the low level input of audison bit one.
OEM HU--> Bit one --> PDX-5 --> MARCOM midrange 4" & tweeter 1" speaker, SWS 8" I heard that Audison is developing a DRC plugin for PC, it sounds great. BTW, where can you buy the audison bit one? It is not available in my area(China). Not sure if it can be bought in Chicago since I have a friend living there. |
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06-25-2009, 11:37 AM | #95 |
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Feel free to test your own car , I've confirmed as much as I'm going to.
The problem for the bitONE might not be voltage. Audison RCA inputs on the amplifiers are common-ground inputs, I don't know if the bitONE inputs are as well. You cannot run balanced signals into common-ground inputs. |
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06-25-2009, 12:09 PM | #96 |
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Audison Bit One manual if anyone's interested.
My install is as follows: OEM HU --> LC6i --> PDX-5 --> Focal KRS100 components, SWS-8x Once the speakers have bedded in I will make the decision whether or not to add an EQ. No hiss on my system but gather that's not gospel for some repeating the above. |
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06-25-2009, 09:34 PM | #97 | |
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1) OEM HU --> OEM AMP --> Bit one --> aftermarket AMPs --> aftermarket speakers 2) OEM HU --> LOC (LC6 or LC6i ?) --> Bit one --> aftermarket AMPs --> Aftermarket speakers Since the output signal of OEM HU is flatting, do I really need the DSP? or just need a aftermarket AMP which accept balanced signal as this 3) OEM HU --> aftermarket AMP --> aftermarket speakers or this if the AMP can not accept balanced signal 4) OEM HU --> LOC --> aftermarket AMP --> aftermarket speakers . Last edited by efunroom; 06-26-2009 at 12:56 AM.. |
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06-26-2009, 10:42 AM | #98 | |
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Found a post at here
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EDIT: Got the Technic's confirm -- "Yes, it does accept differential inputs." Last edited by efunroom; 06-26-2009 at 07:36 PM.. |
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06-26-2009, 07:32 PM | #99 | |
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06-26-2009, 08:35 PM | #100 | |
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Technically, a Matrix line driver is more efficient than the LC6i line converter just because the OEM HU outputs are low level already, so they don't need to be converted/attenuated, just driven and adjusted. |
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06-27-2009, 11:22 AM | #101 | |
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Now come back to my planned config: Audison Bit one 1) Glad to know the OEM HU output is 5V. Does bit one accept such voltage as it's low level input? 2) I noticed that the volume/EQ will be auto-adjusted with speed. This is handled by HU or the AMP? Hope it is the AMP, then the output of the HU is a ideal signal. 3) Seems that bit one has some problem (noise) when using the digital input. I Just watch the progress. Hope audison fix it ASAP. |
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08-15-2009, 09:53 AM | #102 |
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Since the headunit(RAD2) with HIFI option has the MOST interface, can I use the mObridge DA1000 Preamp to get the digital output from that MOST interface? RAD2 need software upgrade?
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08-26-2009, 05:39 AM | #103 | |
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cheers, mObridge |
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08-26-2009, 08:43 AM | #104 |
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08-26-2009, 11:10 AM | #105 | |
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If you're gonna talk capabilities, can you also update us on dates? |
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08-31-2009, 09:54 AM | #106 |
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08-31-2009, 10:00 AM | #107 | |
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cheers, mObridge |
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08-31-2009, 10:02 AM | #108 |
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08-31-2009, 10:03 AM | #109 | |
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08-31-2009, 10:13 AM | #110 |
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Or was he asking if the device with analog and Toslink SPDIF outputs can have both outputs active simultaneously? (For bitone.1 use, this seems important...)
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