[tomtom]

Originally Posted by skier

The ability to transfer the flash would definitely increase atractivenes of this tune to folks who get a new car every two years.

not really...how much are piggybacks from 2 years going for....you probably couldn't sell them in today's market. rate of progress has been impressive.

piggy backs have come along way, but are they safe without full control of the DME.
and all this arguing about knock and timing control is concerning. I mean someone is distorting the truth.

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by tomtom

not really...how much are piggybacks from 2 years going for....you probably couldn't sell them in today's market. rate of progress has been impressive.

piggy backs have come along way, but are they safe without full control of the DME.
and all this arguing about knock and timing control is concerning. I mean someone is distorting the truth.

This topic took us down a road that got deleted not too long ago. I think GIAC would prefer we only discuss their product in this thread.

[stressdoc]

Does anyone have one of those sweet P3 rixx boost gauges with a GIAC flash? It would be nice to compare 'real world driving' boost levels of this flash as compared to stock.

[old account 1]

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

This topic took us down a road that got deleted not too long ago. I think GIAC would prefer we only discuss their product in this thread.

thank you sir.

[old account 1]

Originally Posted by tomtom

not really...how much are piggybacks from 2 years going for....you probably couldn't sell them in today's market. rate of progress has been impressive.

piggy backs have come along way, but are they safe without full control of the DME.
and all this arguing about knock and timing control is concerning. I mean someone is distorting the truth.

Staying on topic of our software, a giac flash 2 years from now will still be entitled to any new updates we make for the software. If it is transferrable, the new owner would be able to enjoy the same benefits of the previous owner.

A transfer would allow the owner to recoup some of the sunk costs while still enjoying the flash prior. The new owner of the flash would be able to pick up the flash at a "second hand" price. How would this not be a win-win for both consumers?

[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by Austin@GIAC

Staying on topic of our software, a giac flash 2 years from now will still be entitled to any new updates we make for the software. If it is transferrable, the new owner would be able to enjoy the same benefits of the previous owner.

A transfer would allow the owner to recoup some of the sunk costs while still enjoying the flash prior. The new owner of the flash would be able to pick up the flash at a "second hand" price. How would this not be a win-win for both consumers?

I am not sure what you mean by "transfer." Same car or transferable to a different car? E.g., case #1: I want to sell my car that has a GIAC flash. Buyer wants car with flash, gets rights to the flash installed in that car. Case #2: I want to trade car in to dealer, or a buyer that doesn't want flash (presumably most sellers would remove flash for fear that it would reduce resale value), is it possible for me to sell 'my' flash on the open market? My car goes in to GIAC installer, who removes flash (reflash to stock), and then installs flash into another car, different owner, that I 'sold' my GIAC flash to? If you are allowing for case #2 that would truely be amazing, and would assuage any concerns potential buyers have about resale of piggy hardware vs. flash software. Even a transfer fee of, say, $250, would prod a lot of fence-sitters.

It would be nice if microsoft had such enlightened policies.

[old account 1]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

I am not sure what you mean by "transfer." Same car or transferable to a different car? E.g., case #1: I want to sell my car that has a GIAC flash. Buyer wants car with flash, gets rights to the flash installed in that car. Case #2: I want to trade car in to dealer, or a buyer that doesn't want flash (presumably most sellers would remove flash for fear that it would reduce resale value), is it possible for me to sell 'my' flash on the open market? My car goes in to GIAC installer, who removes flash (reflash to stock), and then installs flash into another car, different owner, that I 'sold' my GIAC flash to? If you are allowing for case #2 that would truely be amazing, and would assuage any concerns potential buyers have about resale of piggy hardware vs. flash software. Even a transfer fee of, say, $250, would prod a lot of fence-sitters.

It would be nice if microsoft had such enlightened policies.

Case #1: The car is registered to the VIN of the vehicle. Buyer assumes rights to flash upon transfer of title. There is no transfer fee.

Case #2: Owner of the flash can transfer the flash to a new owner/VIN. The catch is that both DMEs would need to be sent to here to GIAC for the transfer. We would need to keep the transfer fee very reasonable to make it worth reselling.

[tomtom]

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

This topic took us down a road that got deleted not too long ago. I think GIAC would prefer we only discuss their product in this thread.

i think its on topic...selling point...direct timing control

[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by Austin@GIAC

Case #1: The car is registered to the VIN of the vehicle. Buyer assumes rights to flash upon transfer of title. There is no transfer fee.

Case #2: Owner of the flash can transfer the flash to a new owner/VIN. The catch is that both DMEs would need to be sent to here to GIAC for the transfer. We would need to keep the transfer fee very reasonable to make it worth reselling.

But you need to keep the market open for new sales too. After the market is saturated you could find transfers eating up a substantial portion of potential new sales and undercutting the price support. So from the vendor's perspective, I would think a substantial transfer fee would be wise. Just the prospect of recouping several hundred $ would be sufficient to equalize the situation vis-a-vis piggys. And this would be a standout policy for GIAC; I don't know of any other flash firm (Alpina, ESS, LET, etc.) that does this.

My apologies for helping divert your thread to marketing issues. I think most of us are much more interested in functional stuff, but in this data vacuum until S4to335 et al get their tunes and report results we are twiddling our thumbs...

[joec500]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

But you need to keep the market open for new sales too. After the market is saturated you could find transfers eating up a substantial portion of potential new sales and undercutting the price support. So from the vendor's perspective, I would think a substantial transfer fee would be wise. Just the prospect of recouping several hundred $ would be sufficient to equalize the situation vis-a-vis piggys. And this would be a standout policy for GIAC; I don't know of any other flash firm (Alpina, ESS, LET, etc.) that does this.

My apologies for helping divert your thread to marketing issues. I think most of us are much more interested in functional stuff, but in this data vacuum until S4to335 et al get their tunes and report results we are twiddling our thumbs...

ME and S4to335 are trying to get time to get the flash done, we both work about 50 Miles from the nearest GIAC dealer and they don't work on the weekends

[old account 1]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

But you need to keep the market open for new sales too. After the market is saturated you could find transfers eating up a substantial portion of potential new sales and undercutting the price support. So from the vendor's perspective, I would think a substantial transfer fee would be wise. Just the prospect of recouping several hundred $ would be sufficient to equalize the situation vis-a-vis piggys. And this would be a standout policy for GIAC; I don't know of any other flash firm (Alpina, ESS, LET, etc.) that does this.

My apologies for helping divert your thread to marketing issues. I think most of us are much more interested in functional stuff, but in this data vacuum until S4to335 et al get their tunes and report results we are twiddling our thumbs...

This is something that is being considered as well, which is why I have not said that we are doing it as of yet.

[geneatals]

Originally Posted by Austin@GIAC

Case #2: Owner of the flash can transfer the flash to a new owner/VIN. The catch is that both DMEs would need to be sent to here to GIAC for the transfer. We would need to keep the transfer fee very reasonable to make it worth reselling.

interesting..as my lease is up 12/2011..I would hopefully be getting into another 535i..so if I flash my current 535i...i could pay a lesser fee than the original cost to flash my new 535i sometime next year?

or is it only dme to dme? as that would be almost impossible to get both dme's out to an authorized giac dealer..

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by tomtom

i think its on topic...selling point...direct timing control

Depends on who replied and which direction they decided to go with it...

Regarding the second option for transfer I think GIAC would have to figure out a way to make that work for leasers who are trading cars every two or three years (which is a large market) and don't have the ability to have both DMEs in hand at once.

Maybe have the GIAC dealer check in with headquarters stating they uninstalled the software on the original DME and keep a record but, this seems like it could become quite tedious to keep track of.

[geneatals]

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

Depends on who replied and which direction they decided to go with it...

Regarding the second option for transfer I think GIAC would have to figure out a way to make that work for leasers who are trading cars every two or three years (which is a large market) and don't have the ability to have both DMEs in hand at once.

Maybe have the GIAC dealer check in with headquarters stating they uninstalled the software on the original DME and keep a record but, this seems like it could become quite tedious to keep track of.

agreed..but it would definitely increase the number of potential customers...

as I am in the exact group you mentioned in the first 1/2 of your quoted post above...

[old account 1]

Originally Posted by geneatals

interesting..as my lease is up 12/2011..I would hopefully be getting into another 535i..so if I flash my current 535i...i could pay a lesser fee than the original cost to flash my new 535i sometime next year?

or is it only dme to dme? as that would be almost impossible to get both dme's out to an authorized giac dealer..

Shoot me a PM to discuss.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

...I don't know of any other flash firm (Alpina...

Sorry if this is too OT as well, but Alpina is not really a flash firm, although it seems with the latest models (B3 BT, B7) they become one more and more. Still, they're in another league entirely than LET, GIAC, ESS or you name it.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[geneatals]

Originally Posted by Austin@GIAC

Shoot me a PM to discuss.

pm sent

[Daya]

Question - I understand that in the future there will be a flash loader that will allow you to switch maps (stock, 91-93, race, valet, etc) but doesn't re-flash the car. I presume it would do no good to switch to stock if you bring the car in for service because the flash is still there, you are just running the stock tune so boost levels will be back to normal. Am I correct that in order to be truly invisible you would have to go to your GIAC shop to flash back to stock ecu tune before you go into the dealer, and then re-flash after the dealer?

I was ready to pull the trigger on this flash until I spoke to my local GIAC shop and they told me that to flash back to stock would be $70, and then to re-load the flash would be another $70 Not exactly the ideal scenario for me - $140 each time I have to bring my car in for service (not that I bring it in all that often).

Anyone else agree?

[stressdoc]

I think the idea is to be able to take it to the dealer for most service issues -- oil changes etc. -- without needing to change the flash. Obviously if you have an engine-related issue (HPFP etc.) then stock would be wise.

[1Sleeper]

Originally Posted by Daya

Question - I understand that in the future there will be a flash loader that will allow you to switch maps (stock, 91-93, race, valet, etc) but doesn't re-flash the car. I presume it would do no good to switch to stock if you bring the car in for service because the flash is still there, you are just running the stock tune so boost levels will be back to normal. Am I correct that in order to be truly invisible you would have to go to your GIAC shop to flash back to stock ecu tune before you go into the dealer, and then re-flash after the dealer?

I was ready to pull the trigger on this flash until I spoke to my local GIAC shop and they told me that to flash back to stock would be $70, and then to re-load the flash would be another $70 Not exactly the ideal scenario for me - $140 each time I have to bring my car in for service (not that I bring it in all that often).

Anyone else agree?

I was told by my local guy that "the flash is invisible to the dealer". I took that with a grain of salt. That was in response to my question about when the flashloader was coming out, and me not being too pumped if I had to bring my car in for service before it came out and having to pay to be reflashed. Not a dealbreaker, but I cant imagine Austin and the boys tell too many people not to worry when you go in for service, the flash is invisible. Of course if that were true, that would be a pretty good selling point.

[old account 1]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

I think the idea is to be able to take it to the dealer for most service issues -- oil changes etc. -- without needing to change the flash. Obviously if you have an engine-related issue (HPFP etc.) then stock would be wise.

Correct, stock mode is for basic service type items. We recommend flashing the DME back to stock for any major repair work. Any flash if read out will not be invisible (this is an extremely rare occurence and very time consuming). That said, for normal code scanning and the like, our software does not trigger any red flags. Obviously, the biggest giveaway taking a car into the dealer in flashed mode would be the huge difference in power when the tech drives it, though.

[old account 1]

Originally Posted by 1Sleeper

I was told by my local guy that "the flash is invisible to the dealer". I took that with a grain of salt. That was in response to my question about when the flashloader was coming out, and me not being too pumped if I had to bring my car in for service before it came out and having to pay to be reflashed. Not a dealbreaker, but I cant imagine Austin and the boys tell too many people not to worry when you go in for service, the flash is invisible. Of course if that were true, that would be a pretty good selling point.

I would definitely not tell you to take a flashed car in when in full performance mode and "not worry about it" as most techs will drive the car to ensure everything is proper before giving the car back. A car in "stock mode" would drive like stock, and would alleviate this issue.