[kefler]

Yeah.. post #4 and #6 seriously questioned the OP's car review prowess. I think they should retract their statements after post #20.

[John 070]

Traded in the 2010 Audi, it's good to be king!

[OnlyTruth]

What wrong with these Recaro seats?

[1997gtx]

Personally, I love the seats. But I guess everyone's different.

Also - you couldn't figure out how to preset the radio?

[electro-house]

I've had my 335i for over two months, and I'm still screwing around daily with the seat placement that I like. These seats are very uncomfortable IMO with sport package, I hope you don't run into the same trouble as Audi.

[Hedges]

Originally Posted by WWONG

Traded in an S4 because of seats? SPOILEDDDDD

lol You know you are balling when...

[Tondtar]

Nice looking ride ....Congrats and welcome back.

[TheRox]

Originally Posted by scm6079

Sorry- I'm a software engineer, and work on all sorts of user interface screens - and have been working hard over the last several months on the charger interface used for the Nissan Leaf. That makes me hyper aware of UI problems I see / experience in other cars!! The Audi also really stood out in my mind more because of it's great tech-toys than the performance aspects. I'll go into more details in my performance views below.





The easy one first, the discount, shop around. BMW N. Scottsdale was the 3rd BMW dealer I went to (Camelback and Chandler first). Camelback was nice, but had a fixed small discount. Same with Chandler. I used the negotiations with them to learn what I could get in my trade - went home and worked out a deal that I thought was fair to them (if they don't make any money, they won't do it) and good for me. I skipped the "BS" - and came with a pre-filled in BMW Financial report, down to the penny review of what I wanted with a fully spec'd car. They knew it would be a quick easy sale if they met my number. They did, and I was very happy. If you came in with a reasonable number and they won't discount, just leave. There are plenty of other dealers.




I've NEVER had a problem with sports seats in cars -- but the ones in the Audi hurt so bad I would literally be kept up at night in pain after driving a long distance. There is obviously something very incompatible between my back and the seats in the Audi. I think it was a very personal thing with my back, and won't affect many people - esp. those who don't have back issues.


And now the big one -- the performance comparisons. Let me start by saying that I used to race every weekend, and have always enjoyed high performance cars. Now the phrase "used to" is in there, because I haven't found myself at a track day in several years. I still love to push the cars to their reasonable limits when possible - and love on occasion pushing the car "stupid sideways". I'm not buying a car for the track here, but rather something I can have LOTS of fun with on the street and not be embarrassed to put a client in, or drive to a social event. For a track day toy, I'd buy a Lotus as an extra car.

When I bought the Audi I had been driving an '07 335i coupe since 2006. The difference moving to the Audi from the 335 was clear. The Audi had LOTS more torque. It felt much faster getting off the line. It also pulled hard to redline. The 335 seems to have less power in the bottom and the top compared to the Audi - although the mid-range may go to the bmw.

The Audi's 6MT also had a much nicer feel. The shifting was perfect, and the lever action very solid. I never really liked the MT in the 335 compared to the Porsche and other car's I've owned.

Handling is where the discussion changes. The Audi's "drive select" is a MUST have if you are looking at the S4. I test drove one without - and was VERY happy to buy with. That feature let's you control the differential, and route enough power to the rear wheels to be fun. In the end, the Audi was by far the best handling Audi I've ever owned (I've also owned a TT and the previous generation v8 S4).

Even with the great handling relative to the other Audis - the S4 just isn't as involving or as dynamic as the 335. The 335 is really fun to get "stupid sideways". On my old 335 I loved it when there was an abandoned rain soaked road. It was great fun to kick the rear end out, lay down the accelerator and just let it open up. The exhaust would kick out a melodic tune and all my problems would briefly go away. The S4 just doesn't drive like that. It's more business like - more... boring. Yes, it's fast. Yes, it handles well. No - it's not involving. It lacks the visceral feel of the BMW. The further away from the "limit" you are, the closer the feel of the two cars. The S4's more favorable torque/hp numbers and still excellent handling make that car more fun further away from the limit. As you drive more aggressively, the 335's feedback of the road and neutral handling make it a lot more fun to drive.

Test driving the new 335is right after driving to the dealer in the Audi - and having driven it for 12,000 miles over the last year I was immediately reminded that the 335 was more fun. And the 'is' model dialed the meter to 11. The exhaust on the 335is is AWESOME. Truly great sounding. The suspension is noticeably stiffer than the Audi - and the feeling much more of a sports car.

The one thing I also immediately noticed in the 335is was some turbo lag. Coming from the S4 it was very pronounced. Back 15 years ago I competed in the NIRA drag race regional finals with a car that had some REAL turbo lag. This was nothing compared to that (i.e. the old MR2, Supra days). But the 335is feels like more of a turbo car than the regular 335. I think some of this is the extra "boost" that really ramps up. It was a really fun feeling - and the extra boost is noticeable. Reminded me a little of the first Nitrous system I had (a 35hp dry-shot) keyed to full-throttle on the pedal. Overall the difference w/o the over-boost between the 335 and 335is is negligible at best.

So why not the M3? Really, it just wasn't all there. I've heard so many people say on the forums that they'd rather just spend the extra $10k and get an M3. Or that they'd get a stripper M3 vs a loaded 335is. First, I think you're crazy. This isn't a race car - you'd really want to drive a hour and a half a day without a radio upgrade, drive to client locations without navigation, and change transmissions because you are in a different model designation car? No way. Comparing apples to apples - the cars are $10k apart. My 335is was loaded, and came to a $61.5k sticker. The dealer dropped around $5k off. The M3 configured the same way came to $74.5k. Even if I was willing to drop $3k in options, it is still $10k more. The discounts are the same on both, with perhaps an extra $300-$500 off on the M3.

Knowing how much more the M3 was, I was still originally going to buy the M3. Mostly because it was an M3, and I keep telling myself my "next" daily driver will be an M3. But driving the 335is and the M3 back to back, it just isn't a better car for my needs. Yes - it is faster at the limit. But those limits were sky high. The 335is exhaust note was incredible. The handling was great. If they would have put a LSD on the 335is I can't see a reason to get an M3 other than for track duty. The personal stigma that goes with any car that qualifies for the gas-guzzler tax was also a very real decision making point. Remember when I said I've been working on the user-interface for the electric car charger for the Leaf? Gas-guzzler cars don't fair well at the office.

So there you have it... one less Audi, and back to BWM.

Just one quick comments on the notion of torque from the S4.

I have a 335xi...and my car FEELS like it PULLS a lot stronger than a RWD 335i at lower, city speeds.

And that's because of the sensation of all wheel drive - the 40% torque up front gives you that stronger sensation of being pulled from low speeds. This sensation is a lot more visceral than being "pushed" in a RWD drive. I might be wrong here, but the sensation of being pulled feels stronger than being pushed.

Hence RWD cars...."feel" slower in a sense, but they are much much smoother in power delivery. AWD have more visceral or rougher power delivery, but feel faster.

I think your S4 was giving you that feel of AWD pull. BTW, you should also have noticed launching the S4 or any AWD car, it bogs off the line...you really have to feather the clutch right to get it off the line properly. I know my 335xi is a little more sluggish off the line than a RWD 335i...I need to spend an extra tenth of a second slipping the clutch to get a good launch, whereas in RWD you connect and go!

Your thoughts?

[MikeyComputers]

dude i had the nicest 350z miss it so much. but then i remember the problems (flywheel chatter, dash unhinged after 1 year they wouldn't fix it, speakers would go in and out, umm the car was a coffin.. after many doughnuts the car would get dizzy and not turn back on if i shut it down i would have to wait 20 min)

mind you i bought the car with 8 months old with 8k miles 2004 touring with nav..

switched to bmw and they are the BEST cars i swear

and as far as the 335 over the m3 im in that boat now my friend just got the m6 and he is pushing me for a m3 but honestly the only reason i want a m3 is for a body kit and cuz the M is a panty dropper lol.. but the 335 is way more bang for your buck with 1 chip it hangs with a m3 then push the button u get 28 mpg

Originally Posted by J02 335i

I was in a situation like this a few years ago when I bought a 350z(03), the car felt right at the time and then after six months I could not deal with it (mind you it started to have issues aswell) So I jumped ship and bought my first BMW, a 330xi. Loved it, couldn't even compare to my 350z, sure it costed a couple grand to make this, but in the big picture I was more then happy with the out come. From there on out I have now owned threes BMW's and will have a very hard time buying anthing else(other then a Porsche LOL).

[TheStigsTwin]

Originally Posted by TheRox

Just one quick comments on the notion of torque from the S4.

I have a 335xi...and my car FEELS like it PULLS a lot stronger than a RWD 335i at lower, city speeds.

And that's because of the sensation of all wheel drive - the 40% torque up front gives you that stronger sensation of being pulled from low speeds. This sensation is a lot more visceral than being "pushed" in a RWD drive. I might be wrong here, but the sensation of being pulled feels stronger than being pushed.

Hence RWD cars...."feel" slower in a sense, but they are much much smoother in power delivery. AWD have more visceral or rougher power delivery, but feel faster.

I think your S4 was giving you that feel of AWD pull. BTW, you should also have noticed launching the S4 or any AWD car, it bogs off the line...you really have to feather the clutch right to get it off the line properly. I know my 335xi is a little more sluggish off the line than a RWD 335i...I need to spend an extra tenth of a second slipping the clutch to get a good launch, whereas in RWD you connect and go!

Your thoughts?

Personal experience and stats say your are exactly wrong. Because the XI plants all 4 wheels it is easier to get off the line and (all things being equal) should get to 60 a tick quicker than an RWD equivalent car.

[jayely1]

How can it not have presets for the radio???

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Hedges

lol You know you are balling when...

More like a fool and his money are easily parted. When you earn your own money and you do something foolish to lose it, you don't brag about it!

[FVM3]

You are talking like going into bmw showroom and ask the SA: Should i purchase a bmw from you or get an Audi?"

[TheRox]

Originally Posted by TheStigsTwin

Personal experience and stats say your are exactly wrong. Because the XI plants all 4 wheels it is easier to get off the line and (all things being equal) should get to 60 a tick quicker than an RWD equivalent car.

Buddy I never said its not faster to 60. Read what I said first.

All wheel drive bogs off the line and are very difficult to launch...so said by Jeremy Clarkson in his review of Porsche 911 Turbo Cab v. Audi R8 V10 Cab
go and youtube it.


You must have misunderstood me. All wheel drive has a slow upstart...off the line they bog...but you feel this sluggishness as the power delivery is just not as snappy as a 2 wheel drive car.

[Murph335]

Any a4 owner would swap you seats for free the same day u posted without blinking, u used to be all over the Audi forums. S4 parts are so desirable, prob could have saved u 10k in depreciation at a min.

I agree with the top gear review of the r8, great car that I don't want to own for the money. The 911 turbo is so incredible, it will take a nice offset, tunable, and a milestone in life to own one before late 30s, earlier the better IMO. If I could only sell the damn AMG!


If the new m3 comes with fat fenders and turbos, going to have to really tough decision to make.
Ttv8 m5, 09 e90 mtech will be a bargain, tt m3

Going to try and ride out the maint till 2013.

Btw the recaros in this airplane I am on right now as i type this are doing just fine


U az guys wanna meet at firebird soon, take adv of this perfect turbo weather!

[MikeyComputers]

i had a 06 A4 i would have traded seats in a HEARTBEAT.. love the 335is but the DCT ehhhhhh snooore rather drive stick any day.. (to each his own) and i drive on the belt parkway every day in brooklyn ..... nothing like droppin into 2nd spinning the tires around a turn :-p

oh yeh but then again the launch control is cool heres a picture of my neighbors

[TheRox]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

Gosh don't even know where to start on this one.
The split on the S4 is 40/60 so the pull you are alluding to is not really there since when you mash on the gas the weight goes all the way to the rear of the car and that is where most of the traction is. So in the S4 case it is more of a push than a pulll. Since it is AWD it just gets up and go with full throttle while on RWD cars with high torque and hp you can't just put your foot all the way down unless you just want to spin your tires. So this is the opposite of what you are saying. The S4 actually has more torque so it isn't just something in your head. With the clutch you just need to give it a little gas and just let the clutch out right away and floor the gas and it won't bog and will just take off, don't try to feather the clutch. That is why the reviewer says the S4 feels it has more torque because it does and it is easier to access. The S4 is a better daily and the M3 is the better track car as once you get above 5000rpm it takes off and that is where the M3 shines on the track along with the superior balance of the M3.

You must have misunderstood what I meant.

I have a 335xi, which you may want to know also has a 40/60 split ...and I feel much more pull than a RWD 335i...perhaps if you test drove both cars, you'd notice the same thing as I did. Its more sensation than reality; its the way our mind perceives being pulled.


Next, I didn't mean that AWD cars are SLOW off the LINE....they aren't, because of AWD, they don't spin wheel etc etc etc -- every person past the age of two knows this. You're not adding much here.

I meant that 6MT AWD cars are HARD TO LAUNCH, ie. hard to get fast snappy power delivery off the line...once they have that power, they slingshot no doubt, but getting that power to them is not as snappy as two wheel drive cars <---. THey bog off the line; like i said before, go youtube the porsche 911 turbo v. audi r8 v10 top gear video with jeremy clarkson, he says the same thing -- "they bog off the line" his words. This isn't even an opinion.

AWD cars are hard to launch with 6MT than are 2 wheel drive cars ....I'm not talking about wheel spin, i'm talking about connecting the crankshaft's power to the drive wheels. What the drive wheels do once they have the power is not what I'm referring to, which you are.


Edit: The video is the r8 spyder v. the 911 turbo cab; where clarkson drives the r8 initially and loses, then drives the turbo and loses to the r8 -- saying that AWD cars bog off the line, so the launch is critical. Its hard to replicate good launches with AWD drives day in day out. This is all 6MT of course.

[TheStigsTwin]

Originally Posted by TheRox

You must have misunderstood what I meant.

I have a 335xi, which you may want to know also has a 40/60 split ...and I feel much more pull than a RWD 335i...perhaps if you test drove both cars, you'd notice the same thing as I did. Its more sensation than reality; its the way our mind perceives being pulled.


Next, I didn't mean that AWD cars are SLOW off the LINE....they aren't, because of AWD, they don't spin wheel etc etc etc -- every person past the age of two knows this. You're not adding much here.

I meant that 6MT AWD cars are HARD TO LAUNCH, ie. hard to get fast snappy power delivery off the line...once they have that power, they slingshot no doubt, but getting that power to them is not as snappy as two wheel drive cars <---. THey bog off the line; like i said before, go youtube the porsche 911 turbo v. audi r8 v10 top gear video with jeremy clarkson, he says the same thing -- "they bog off the line" his words. This isn't even an opinion.

AWD cars are hard to launch with 6MT than are 2 wheel drive cars ....I'm not talking about wheel spin, i'm talking about connecting the crankshaft's power to the drive wheels. What the drive wheels do once they have the power is not what I'm referring to, which you are.


Edit: The video is the r8 spyder v. the 911 turbo cab; where clarkson drives the r8 initially and loses, then drives the turbo and loses to the r8 -- saying that AWD cars bog off the line, so the launch is critical. Its hard to replicate good launches with AWD drives day in day out. This is all 6MT of course.

Ummm Clarkson makes it fact? He lost BOTH launches, meaning HE blows. I have a 6mt 335xi, Launches are hard to not do well in this car. Much easier that RWD. I just don't agree with you at all. Sorry.

[TheRox]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

Ok understand what you are saying now. I would agree with you somewhat on the bogging down part, but the reason clarkson is most likely saying this is because he drives a sh!t load of RWD cars but only a handful of AWD cars so he is probably not the best to get reviews on AWD cars. Not sure how long you have been driving AWD cars but I have been for over 10years and let me just say that once you learn how to launch it then it is a big advantage and even clarkson says that if done properly it is a huge advantage. The secret is that you just need some time to learn to do it properly.
I just put about 2000rpm and then just let off the clutch quickly and then apply full throttle, don't try to let it out slowly and applying gas at the same time this takes too long. This method will allow you to put the power down before the RWD car driver figures out how to put the power down on his RWD car properly without spinning the wheels. This is what I do with my modded 1.8T A4 not sure if it is the same for your 335i though. This is attainable as you look at all the automatic AWD cars usually have a faster 0-60 time than the manuals. Look at the porsche PDK system with launch control. Yes the shifts are faster but 0-60 is only maybe one shift. Basically it is the launch. If the PDk system can do it I am sure eventually you can learn to do it just the same just takes more time.

Fully agree with you 100%

AWD def has the advantage overall in the launch. Its just the annoying driver in me is so used to that snapppy pickup you get in a RWD 335i or even a FWD 1992 Honda...yes true once you engage the clutch, tires spin in both cars!

No car is perfect, but you're right on the balance AWD goes like a bat out of hell.

[vitologarcia]

i wish i had dct