[robc1976]

Originally Posted by MR2 Josh

Jake didn't tune my car. Chad at MKC did. Boost was progressively ramped in to get around s limp mode which hurt spool on my car at that level too. The lower HP oulls I was seeing full boost around 300rpm sooner.

The differences are negligible though. No one will actually feel the difference in spool on the street. I'm not I'm not saying that the Motiv kit is junk or anything, it's a beautiful piece of quality work. Just that log manifolds are not ideal. 90* bends are bad for flow and cause turbulence. This has been proven time and again. (Hence why you see any type of race car with tubular manifolds).

In the end both kits perform extremely well and it's purely the end users choice on what they want and the end result with leave the customer happy with whatever they choose.

Also, the 861 I made is easily beatable. Hell I could throw the car back on the dyno right now and beat it in one single pull. I said from the beginning that I will not go over 36psi. I don't doubt that 900+ is possible. I just worry about the open deck and what the big end of the rods are doing under that stress. (Becoming ovate lol) we made 6 pulls over 800 and every one I was waiting for it to let go. Right after it made a clean pull at 861 I go we're done. My main goal was see what it did at a max of 36psi and then enjoy it all spring/summer/fall and then see where it's at and go from there. I bought this car to enjoy all the time and not have it down 90% of the time. I make personal goals because in the end having the most power is nothing more than bragging rights on paper.

I was mistaken then, I thought jake helped tune your car. I agree with the power statement.

[Aerotest]

Originally Posted by 3000GT MR

No one has really tuned one for max spool and power.

I have. 23 psi at 3700 rpm on AUBeast86's car and we aren't done yet. He is currently changing his FFTec PT over to a gtx3076r and I suspect we will improve spool even more.

[135Pats]

Wonder how much torque you are making down low at that type of boost. Mucho load on the motor....If it can eat that at 3.5K, certain another nice arrow in the cap RE: overall strength.

Someone needs to explode one of these damn things.

[3000GT MR]

Originally Posted by robc1976

not crap, just laggy...but to be expected for a larger turbo. Fftech has been out longer and been tuning longer, have to give motiv a chance. Note I didn't offend you man...you know that was not the intention lol!

No you didn't offend me nor did i take it that way. I'm just tired off all this motiv spool hype that people dont see and understand certain things about power delivery. It's a dog eat dog world, ALL manufactures are going to claim one thing or another. Jake can tune a car hands down and has one of the highest quality kits out there no doubt, I'm not hating one bit. We all know 90% of what we have seen come from motiv is tuning as far as spool characteristics go. The Bottom mount FFtec kit is by no means "laggy" I've owned one and have messed around with all different boost on-sets. I just didnt like the fact of spinning and not getting the power to the ground so i tuned around that.

Originally Posted by Aerotest

I have. 23 psi at 3700 rpm on AUBeast86's car and we aren't done yet. He is currently changing his FFTec PT over to a gtx3076r and I suspect we will improve spool even more.

Thats awesome!. I'd have to look at some old logs of mine but i think i was around 17 @3500 targeted.

[MR2 Josh]

Originally Posted by 3000GT MR

No you didn't offend me nor did i take it that way. I'm just tired off all this motiv spool hype that people dont see and understand certain things about power delivery. It's a dog eat dog world, ALL manufactures are going to claim one thing or another. Jake can tune a car hands down and has one of the highest quality kits out there no doubt, I'm not hating one bit. We all know 90% of what we have seen come from motiv is tuning as far as spool characteristics go. The Bottom mount FFtec kit is by no means "laggy" I've owned one and have messed around with all different boost on-sets. I just didnt like the fact of spinning and not getting the power to the ground so i tuned around that.

Agreed 100X's over.

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by 3000GT MR

No you didn't offend me nor did i take it that way. I'm just tired off all this motiv spool hype that people dont see and understand certain things about power delivery. It's a dog eat dog world, ALL manufactures are going to claim one thing or another. Jake can tune a car hands down and has one of the highest quality kits out there no doubt, I'm not hating one bit. We all know 90% of what we have seen come from motiv is tuning as far as spool characteristics go. The Bottom mount FFtec kit is by no means "laggy" I've owned one and have messed around with all different boost on-sets. I just didnt like the fact of spinning and not getting the power to the ground so i tuned around that.



Thats awesome!. I'd have to look at some old logs of mine but i think i was around 17 @3500 targeted.

I shoulded have been more clear, I was referrtop top mount. I will leave it at thus, my car, your car, josh's car will have no trouble beating most things err come across and neither of us have to worry about stock frame smoking blowing up at a blink of boost issues

[The Convert]

Originally Posted by MR2 Josh

Jake didn't tune my car. Chad at MKC did. Boost was progressively ramped in to get around s limp mode which hurt spool on my car at that level too. The lower HP pulls I was seeing full boost around 300rpm sooner. The tune is everything no matter the car and no matter what power you're going for. I always tell people, it doesn't matter what parts you buy and have on the car, in the end the tune is what makes or breaks (literally) a setup.

The differences are negligible though. No one will actually feel the difference in spool on the street. I'm not saying that the Motiv kit is junk or anything, it's a beautiful piece of quality work. Just that log manifolds are not ideal. 90* bends are bad for flow and cause turbulence. This has been proven time and again. (Hence why you see any type of race car with tubular manifolds).

In the end both kits perform extremely well and it's purely the end users choice on what they want and the end result with leave the customer happy with whatever they choose. I wanted top mount and tubular.

Also, the 861 I made is easily beatable. Hell I could throw the car back on the dyno right now and beat it in one single pull. I said from the beginning that I will not go over 36psi. I don't doubt that 900+ is possible. I just worry about the open deck/block shift and what the big end of the rods are doing under that stress. (Becoming ovate lol) we made 6 pulls over 800 and every one I was waiting for it to let go. Right after it made a clean pull at 861 I go we're done. My main goal was see what it did at a max of 36psi and then enjoy it all spring/summer/fall and then see where it's at and go from there. I bought this car to enjoy all the time and not have it down 90% of the time. I make personal goals because in the end having the most power is nothing more than bragging rights on paper.

Are you running the 861whp tune on the street too? I'd be interested to know how the car handles that much power when there is load applied and not just on the dyno.

[MR2 Josh]

Originally Posted by The Convert

Are you running the 861whp tune on the street too? I'd be interested to know how the car handles that much power when there is load applied and not just on the dyno.

Normally I run my cars in kill all the time but typically I have built my motors to handle kill all the time lol. With that said, I will run it occasionally full boost but most of the time I'll keep it around 29-30psi which is still 780-800whp.

[The Convert]

Originally Posted by MR2 Josh

Normally I run my cars in kill all the time but typically I have built my motors to handle kill all the time lol. With that said, I will run it occasionally full boost but most of the time I'll keep it around 29-30psi which is still 780-800whp.

I'm very interested to know how long it lasts at those levels...I really don't want to ever have to build a motor for this car. :/

[Aerotest]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Wonder how much torque you are making down low at that type of boost. Mucho load on the motor....If it can eat that at 3.5K, certain another nice arrow in the cap RE: overall strength.

Someone needs to explode one of these damn things.

Not as much as you would think. I have to taper the boost in to keep it off the surge line b/c it will actually spool right into it. BTW this is on a bottom mount FFTec. His car is an auto so we have been sensitive to keeping boost/torque in check at lower rpms. It is my experience that torque is the real killer of drive train components. I think we may see even better spool out of the GTX as the rotating components are lighter than the PT's.

[Aerotest]

Originally Posted by 3000GT MR

No you didn't offend me nor did i take it that way. I'm just tired off all this motiv spool hype that people dont see and understand certain things about power delivery. It's a dog eat dog world, ALL manufactures are going to claim one thing or another. Jake can tune a car hands down and has one of the highest quality kits out there no doubt, I'm not hating one bit. We all know 90% of what we have seen come from motiv is tuning as far as spool characteristics go. The Bottom mount FFtec kit is by no means "laggy" I've owned one and have messed around with all different boost on-sets. I just didnt like the fact of spinning and not getting the power to the ground so i tuned around that.



Thats awesome!. I'd have to look at some old logs of mine but i think i was around 17 @3500 targeted.

I agree 100% with all these points. Motiv knows their stuff when it comes to tuning but it really isnt rocket science. The same tuning principles used on other platforms work well with N54.

AUBeast's car was hitting around 17psi at 3500 using the free backend flash. I found the vanos tables and spool region timing to be pretty far off what I would prefer. My adjustments netted us 30whp and 40wtq on the dyno and the owner comment his car sounded like a freight train when spooling. I don't tune for money so I would be glad to share my work with anyone who is interested liability free.

[Tiago@VRSF]

I can't believe I missed this! Congrats Josh this is huge power. I'm glad the stock block is still holding up and it's great to finally see what a properly setup E85 car can do.

[Seanpatio]

Can we pleaaaase have some in car pull videos pleeeaaaaaase

[Evooooo]

Originally Posted by MR2 Josh

Majority of the details now updated.

First off, I owe HUGE thanks to Jake and the guys at Motiv Motorsports with all of their help with the tuning side of this and the very high quality products they offer. Also Huge thanks to Chad and Ryan Modified by KC who did the install and tuning on my car. Mike and Aaron and the guys at FFTEC for a very well made turbo kit, and last but not least Steve at Fuel-It taking care of me and my last minute change to the Stg 3+ lpfp! I wouldn't have been able to do this with my life's schedule being so busy with my rapidly growing business and my family. Anyone that knows me knows I'm extremely anal about my cars and in fact was the first time in 10 years that I have trusted someone to work on my cars other than myself. (My cars prior I did all of the assembly, fab work, tuning, etc).

This setup is fairly simple as far as mods go and can be replicated easily now that there is a growing support in this community of quality vendors such as the ones I listed above. It's a 100% stock unopened 64k mile long block. It's what I consider a bolt on car. Still has every single creature comfort as one that came from the factory minus the windshield washer reservoir. Well the reservoir is still there the full neck is removed but A/C, heat, cruise, Nav, etc, etc, is still all there and functional.

Fuel was 100% e85. To be exact it was e70 winter blend from the pumps that I blended e98 in to bring it up to ~e82. The pumps here should be switching to the summer blend e85 here in a month or so. Injector duty cycle on the port injection was 80% and I can't remember exactly what the DC was for the direct injection but it was roughly the same. I would say its safe to assume 900whp on 100% e85 with this fuel system isn't an issue.

MODS:
- FFTEC twin scroll Top Mount Precision billet dbb 6466 T4 1.0ar divided, twin Tial MVS WG's
- Motiv Motorsports PI-1000 kit
- Fuel-It "Hulk"Stg. 3+ lpfp
- Cobb AP (Controls the DME/DI)
- Haltech Platinum Sport 1000 (controls the PI and boost)
- Custom harnesses made by Chad at Modified by KC
- Clutchmasters FX850 twin disc
- VRSF 7" IC
- VRSF charge pipe
- Tial Q bov
- 4" to dual 3" exhaust

The final number was 861whp at 250-255KPA or a peak of 36psi. We were having interference on the rpm pick up for the dyno so I'll post two graphs, one over vehicle speed and the other with engine speed but the engine speed is going to be pretty erratic due to the interference on the pick-up and lost signal. Exact TQ is unknown on the 800+ pulls because of this. It's around 750-760wtq which is low because we had to ramp boost in to keep torque lower due to a "Too Much Torque" limp mode if we gave it all right away on basically anything over 775whp. Otherwise, following what it was was making for tq I would guess it would be around 800wtq and spool would have been about 300-500rpm quicker.

The car has A LOT more left in it and this number can easily be broken. My goal today was to make big power but also be able to enjoy after the dyno. I plan on pushing it again this winter until I run out of turbo or the motor lets go and then it'll be a fully forged bottom end, possibly a Motec m142 to simplify the tuning side, and try and do something with the head to make it more rev happy because it really could use another 500-1000rpm. I wouldn't be surprised if the n54 could handle 900-915whp stock. For how long though is the question. I didn't want to be the test mule for the limits of the motor right now.

Anyway, we made I think 75-80 pulls on e85 alone, half of those were well over 700whp and I think 5 pulls over 800whp (805, 813, 832, 858, 861). Pull after pull it just wanted more and never showed any signs of slowing up.


Here is the 861whp and 832whp graph over vehicle speed. We did make an 858whp pull but the boost control was unhappy bouncing all over hitting target then falling on it's face.




This is the 861whp graph with tq reading over engine speed and also showing the dyno losing signal because of the RF interference with the pick-up lead.




And then same graph over vehicle speed showing the erratic tq readings again from the reason above.





Here is the video of the 861whp pull. (excuse the mismatched wheels, I have new DPE wheels that I was waiting till after the dyno to put on)

All these numbers we are seeing mean absolute dick. All the 54 seems to be is a dyno queen. This is a great accomplishment and a ton of power but enough of these world record pulls. Put this thing on a strip and give us real world numbers. Should trap 135-140.

[Stucks]

Originally Posted by Seanpatio

Can we pleaaaase have some in car pull videos pleeeaaaaaase

He would need to do a 4th gear pull starting at 100mph and would likely still spin the wheels slightly upon throttle tip in lol. few places to safely do that at, even in mexico!

[MR2 Josh]

Originally Posted by Evooooo

All these numbers we are seeing mean absolute dick. All the 54 seems to be is a dyno queen. This is a great accomplishment and a ton of power but enough of these world record pulls. Put this thing on a strip and give us real world numbers. Should trap 135-140.

I already said (a few times now) I am taking it to the track aiming to lower the 1/4 mile et hopefully to the single digits...

[MR2 Josh]

Originally Posted by Stucks

He would need to do a 4th gear pull starting at 100mph and would likely still spin the wheels slightly upon throttle tip in lol. few places to safely do that at, even in mexico!

It actually isn't bad for traction 3rd gear on. We set it up to progressively ramp boost in so it doesn't immediately blow the tires off. I did a couple 3rd-4th gear pulls tonight and it hooks. I have a VBOX on the way so as soon as it arrives I'll set it up and see what the 60-130 times are that everyone wants.

[MR2 Josh]

Here are some pics of the car. I finally got to take it out today. lets just say it's pretty quick. Hah I still have to install my Msport front bumper, Arkym CF lip, m3 side skirts, and a few other miscellaneous pieces like the ER carbon fiber engine cover, LCI euro spec tail lights, etc. Ignore the fact I'm parked in a handicap spot. That is my business and I was only there for a minute. lol

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

You have no shot at putting a MT E90 in the 9's without serious suspension work, and a lot of other modifications just for the strip. I was like you, talking a big game with the stock frame record. Took the car to the strip, with a set of slicks on it. Lots of things stacked against us, ran a low 11. I think you can get into the 10's no problem, but no chance at 9's without serious work. With that big turbo, you are going to have a hard time launching it

[MR2 Josh]

Originally Posted by Tony@vargasturbotech

You have no shot at putting a MT E90 in the 9's without serious suspension work, and a lot of other modifications just for the strip. I was like you, talking a big game with the stock frame record. Took the car to the strip, with a set of slicks on it. Lots of things stacked against us, ran a low 11. I think you can get into the 10's no problem, but no chance at 9's without serious work. With that big turbo, you are going to have a hard time launching it

Yeah I just got home from driving it and was think how much of a handful the car is going to be launching. It's going to take a lot of seat time too. There isn't any slipping of this clutch which is odd because I have the fx725 in my mr2 and I can slip it easily and its a smaller diameter disc so theoretically the 850 in my 335 should be as good or better. My MR2 I can launch all day long (6766 turbo) on slicks cutting 1.4x 60's with all day but I also have many years of driving experience with that car. I'm hoping to be at the track this coming month. We are looking to rent the track for a day so I can get quite a few passes in.

But I agree and I've posted about this before, the biggest issue with these cars is traction which requires suspension work that no one offers an off the shelf solution for.

[Kallibrated]

Killer results, Josh. Reading this thread makes me even more anxious to begin with my car.

As some others have requested, could you get some in-car videos? Speedometer shots if possible? I'm really curious to how it puts down the power and who doesn't like speedo shots? It's like a point of view video and very motivating

Either way, awesome kit and awesome looking car!

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by MR2 Josh

Yeah I just got home from driving it and was think how much of a handful the car is going to be launching. It's going to take a lot of seat time too. There isn't any slipping of this clutch which is odd because I have the fx725 in my mr2 and I can skip it easily and its a smaller diameter disc so theoretically the 850 in my 335 should be as good or better. My MR2 I can launch all day long (6766 turbo) on slicks cutting 1.4x 60's with all day but I also have many years of driving experience with that car. I'm hoping to be at the track this coming month. We are looking to rent the track for a day so I can get quite a few passes in.

But I agree and I've posted about this before, the biggest issue with these cars is traction which requires suspension work that no one offers an off the shelf solution for.

You should try the twin disk it slips nicely. We have a shop across from us that does custom suspension work on race Mustangs. Once car is done I'm gonna let him take a look and see what he wants to modify to hook the car a little better. My first time at the track on slicks, my best 60 ft was a 1.7, these things are son of a bitches to get to hook, and not pull timing when pushing them hard. Keep me posted on how it goes!