Is BSW speaker upgrade worth it?

ken530i · 11-20-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

Specs are tentative and subject to change, but yes, should be around 50W per channel.

The amplifier will probably be only a 4 channel with a separate amplifier for the subwoofer channels.

Micah
So, will the amp upgrade @ $699 involve 2 amps - 1 for F/R and 1 for 2 subs??

Thks!
Ken

Micah D. Cranman · 11-21-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken530i

Micah
So, will the amp upgrade @ $699 involve 2 amps - 1 for F/R and 1 for 2 subs??

Thks!
Ken

No. $699 is for one amp for interior speakers only. We will have a separate amp/sub upgrade for the two subwoofers, probably in a similar price range for both woofers + amp + wiring (plug and play).

It is POSSIBLE that we may at some point offer a 6 channel amp that would provide power to both, but in general our upgrades are designed to be modular -- one does not require the other.

ismelllikepoop · 11-22-2009, 12:35 PM

699 for a 4 channel amp?

kaigoss69 · 11-22-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ismelllikepoop

699 for a 4 channel amp?

$200 for the amp.... and $500 for the plug & play connections.

Micah D. Cranman · 11-22-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

$200 for the amp.... and $500 for the plug & play connections.

We've got significant sunk costs in the engineering of the connector. We'll also likely need to include crossover networks, and the amp and connectors are proprietary (i.e. low volume).

Again, we don't manufacture anything in large quantities like "standard" car audio products and brands are able to, so we just don't get the same pricing for what appear to be similar products with similar specs. Making things in small runs is WAY more expensive than mass manufacturing. Sorry, but we're not Wal-Mart -- we are a boutique brand and it costs more to do what we do, and we have to make more money per part since we sell so few compared to mass manufactured audio products.

It also costs money to offer guarantees, liberal return policies, provide excellent customer service, not to mention extremely high quality products with 4 year warranties. And, of course, we have to pay our bills and make sure everyone involved with BSW makes a reasonable living.

All that said, we'd like to offer the product at a lower price, and we're going to make every attempt to offer it for less when it's released and reduce the price over time. But we'd rather estimate high and pleasantly surprise people with a lower price if we can.

Also: we always offer discounts when you buy multiple products together. We'll probably offer $100 off when purchased with our Stage 1.

Finally, as we've always said, if you can find better value another way, go for it! If it makes financial sense to you to do something other than what we offer when you account for your time, energy, and the fact that you need a certain skill set to get the results you want, that's your call.

wjramsey · 11-24-2009, 10:39 PM

I just purchased the BSW Stage 1 and the amp/sub for my '97 328i convertible. I've got all of the interior speakers installed but haven't installed the subs yet. It sounds a lot better to me than what I had but that's not saying much since all of the speakers were either blown or rotted out in the case of the bass and rear mids. (I didn't know Nokia made speakers!)

Anyway I guess I have two questions:

1) Should I just unhook the rear speakers? It sounded to me like what you guys are saying that you're better off just using the fronts.

2) The sub came with an amp but it sounds like the amp for the interior cabin (which I didn't even know there was one) isn't good? If this is the case then is there a good amp I should buy to pair with these speakers?

I've got $1100 wrapped up in the speaker system and another $600 in the Kenwood head unit. I don't care if I have to put another grand in it or so in order to make it sound decent.

I like to listen to music loud and listen to everything from rock to jazz to classical.

I get the feeling I should have just taken this to a professional audio shop and had them do the work as obviously I've got about 0 knowledge about car audio other than what sounds good to me. I definitely want to make it clear I'm in no way dissing what I got from BSW - I've only had them in for about an hour and listened to them at mid volumes driving around a bit. I just want to make sure that I have got everything I need installed to have the best listening experience necessary.

Any constructive guidance / input would be extremely appreciated

wjramsey · 11-24-2009, 10:45 PM

By the way I should mention at least for Micah that I was really happy with the service and quick delivery on the system I purchased. The YouTube videos on the installation were really helpful. The only suggestions I would have is that they were ordered a bit better and more clearly and that the instructions for removing the rear mid bass (which was really hard those things were fused in there) were a bit better and the section on installing the sub went over the removal of the trunk lining and such. I'm sure it'll be easy enough to figure it out but I was a bit nervous as a non car-audio professional pulling the panels out and all of these parts

Thanks again!

Micah D. Cranman · 11-25-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjramsey

I just purchased the BSW Stage 1 and the amp/sub for my '97 328i convertible. I've got all of the interior speakers installed but haven't installed the subs yet. It sounds a lot better to me than what I had but that's not saying much since all of the speakers were either blown or rotted out in the case of the bass and rear mids. (I didn't know Nokia made speakers!)

Anyway I guess I have two questions:

1) Should I just unhook the rear speakers? It sounded to me like what you guys are saying that you're better off just using the fronts.

With the stock amplifier, you want to keep the rear speakers. That's because the factory amplifier isn't particularly powerful, so all channels are required to generate enough volume.

If you go with an aftermarket ampifier, eliminating the rear channels is a more viable option since you'll have more output from the front speakers.

Quote:

2) The sub came with an amp but it sounds like the amp for the interior cabin (which I didn't even know there was one) isn't good? If this is the case then is there a good amp I should buy to pair with these speakers?

It's not great, but it's enough for many. At the moment there is no "direct fit" amplifier for your car that is compatible with our speakers. You'd have to set up your own crossover networks, do your own wiring, etc., a complex job if you are not familiar with audio.

I would suggest that you install the sub alongside the speakers (keeping rears installed), and see how you like the performance of the system. You may find you don't need anything more, in which case an amplifier upgrade isn't needed and you can save your money and energy.

Quote:

I've got $1100 wrapped up in the speaker system and another $600 in the Kenwood head unit. I don't care if I have to put another grand in it or so in order to make it sound decent.

I like to listen to music loud and listen to everything from rock to jazz to classical.

See above. You may not need to.

Quote:

I get the feeling I should have just taken this to a professional audio shop and had them do the work as obviously I've got about 0 knowledge about car audio other than what sounds good to me. I definitely want to make it clear I'm in no way dissing what I got from BSW - I've only had them in for about an hour and listened to them at mid volumes driving around a bit. I just want to make sure that I have got everything I need installed to have the best listening experience necessary.

Any constructive guidance / input would be extremely appreciated

Perhaps, perhaps not. Like I said, try it with the sub installed and see what you think, then go from there.

Micah D. Cranman · 11-25-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjramsey

By the way I should mention at least for Micah that I was really happy with the service and quick delivery on the system I purchased. The YouTube videos on the installation were really helpful. The only suggestions I would have is that they were ordered a bit better and more clearly and that the instructions for removing the rear mid bass (which was really hard those things were fused in there) were a bit better and the section on installing the sub went over the removal of the trunk lining and such. I'm sure it'll be easy enough to figure it out but I was a bit nervous as a non car-audio professional pulling the panels out and all of these parts

Thanks again!

Glad you were happy with our service! I'll pass your suggestions on to our lead tech who can work in enhancing our instructions and videos.

Let me know if you have any further questions or if there's anything else I can do for you!

wjramsey · 11-25-2009, 03:13 PM

Your lead audio tech is going to call me. I think I had some misunderstandings. I received a Rokford Fosgate amp along with the sub I purchased from you and it looks like the amp is for both your sub and the speakers in the cabin. Having a little bit of a fit problem with the sub where the brackets are too far out but as I said they're giving me a hand. Thanks for your replies

Micah D. Cranman · 11-25-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjramsey

Your lead audio tech is going to call me. I think I had some misunderstandings. I received a Rokford Fosgate amp along with the sub I purchased from you and it looks like the amp is for both your sub and the speakers in the cabin. Having a little bit of a fit problem with the sub where the brackets are too far out but as I said they're giving me a hand. Thanks for your replies

The amplifier you received is a subwoofer only amp. We do not offer a 4 channel amplifier and we only stock one type of RF amplifier, so it would be nearly impossible for you to receive the wrong amp. Does it say P200-2? If so, you got the right amp.

As for the enclosure, it's designed with a gasket on the back that has to be compressed by bolting it in and screwing it down, so the brackets should stick out from the vehicle chassis some -- that's normal. If it's a lot (i.e. you can't put your seat back in place) then there is a problem.

But he'll help you better than I can.

wjramsey · 11-26-2009, 12:53 PM

Micah,

Just an FYI. I was finally able to get everything installed and adjusted. Sounds great! So is the new amp you guys have been talking about a replacement for the factory amp that drives the cabin speakers? If so is that out yet or soon to be out? If not can you recommend a good replacement? I'm not sure if that is what you guys were talking about before when you said you couldn't really recommend an amp earlier ....

Also

I was able to find some Focal demo disks that sound absolutely fantastic! Does anyone have any idea how they do that - it sounds a lot different than what I hear on other cd's. I'm taking it that they're mastered or remastered differently somehow.

Micah D. Cranman · 11-27-2009, 01:30 PM

Yes, the amplifier will be a direct replacement for the factory amplifier that drives the cabin speakers. However, the connector / amplifier required varies from vehicle to vehicle. We have not yet determined if we will be offering an upgrade for E36 applications. It's an older car and we don't know if the market will bear a $699 upgrade.

As for a good replacement, there really is nothing on the market that's direct fit. In addition, to use an aftermarket amp with our speakers, you'd need crossover networks, something we do not sell for your Stage 1. If you feel like you need an amp upgrade, really your best bet is to send the Stage 1 back and go custom for the interior speakers.

As for the Focal disks, good production can make a huge difference. They're probably using harmonics for the bass / midbass to increase impact -- very common in modern hip-hop, etc. to make it sound decent and "impactful" even on mediocre stereos.

wjramsey · 11-27-2009, 02:40 PM

Micah,

Thanks for taking the time to respond to all of my questions. After installing the amp and the sub the stereo actually sounds really good so I don't plan on returning the system. I guess the more I read and learn about all of this the more interesting it becomes and the more I feel like toying with it. I do database and server performance tuning for a living so by nature I'm a "tweaker".

I think I'm getting what you're saying now. Basically there are compromises you have to make to build a plug-and-play system where someone just wants to put in a new sound system without having to do a lot of playing around with it or having to have a lot of in-depth car audio knowledge.

Given that I think I'm just going to leave well enough alone and confine my tweaking to adjusting the amp and some of the settings on my head unit and not overcomplicate things - as I said the system sounds great as is. I read up a little bit on crossover networks and I'm starting to see what you're talking about there. Since the subjects intriguing to me now I think I'll continue to learn about it but I'll just use my other car to experiment with which is going to be much more friendly to tinkering around with and that I'll not mind tearing around in as much.

Again thanks for the information and the explanations and my apologies to everyone else for hijacking your thread!

Micah D. Cranman · 11-27-2009, 02:46 PM

Happy to help, glad to hear you're happy with performance!

Let me know if you have any further questions or if there's anything else I can do for you!

kjkaiser · 12-12-2009, 10:06 PM

If anyone is interested, I have a 10% off coupon from BSW. If you use it, I will in turn get 10% my next purchase (I sure could use that discount!). Let me know and I will send the code to you.

FFBaller · 12-13-2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

It is not available yet in the USA, though. I think that Rover Active at eBay can get it for you for a premium.

This is really cool. I have the standard stereo in my 2010 e92, can I use this for an upgrade? Will I be able to retain all functionality of the car's oem head unit?

Technic · 12-13-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFBaller

This is really cool. I have the standard stereo in my 2010 e92, can I use this for an upgrade? Will I be able to retain all functionality of the car's oem head unit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

Those are European P/N and this OEM amp kit apply only to MY2010 USA 1- and 3-Series with the new standard Stereo system.

All the OEM HU functionality is retained.

kjkaiser · 02-08-2010, 11:45 PM

I have a coupon for 10% off at BSW. Just enter the coupon code at checkout: Coupon Code: 9C9510CET106V101L10B

Also, let me know if you use it.

ProfessorCook · 03-29-2010, 11:46 AM

I have recently installed the BSW Stage 1 upgrade to my 328i coupe. I put together a supplemental DIY with pictures. If you're interested...

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...74#post5058574

UdubBadger · 03-29-2010, 12:07 PM

how do you like it so far?

ProfessorCook · 03-29-2010, 03:48 PM

So far, I like it very much.

I immediately noticed better high frequency response, which I had been missing. I also noticed much more detail in the mid range. Of course, as mentioned in my other thread over on Bimmerfest, I cannot deny a placebo effect. After spending money and time and effort on something, you're naturally predisposed to think you've done great things.

Still, I like it very much indeed. I'm not going to be sending the speaker set back.

I added so much sound deadening material in the process, that the doors are noticeably heavier. This leaves me a bit concerned over the long term durability of the grab handle, but I don't think it's a big enough worry to go back in and strip out the material.

11-22-2009, 12:35 PM	#179
ismelllikepoop First Lieutenant 26 Rep 365 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: May 2008 Location: pooptown iTrader: (1)	699 for a 4 channel amp?
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11-24-2009, 10:39 PM	#182
wjramsey New Member 0 Rep 5 Posts Drives: 1997 BMW 328i Convertible Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oxford, OH iTrader: (0)	Over my head but a question since you guys obviously know :) I just purchased the BSW Stage 1 and the amp/sub for my '97 328i convertible. I've got all of the interior speakers installed but haven't installed the subs yet. It sounds a lot better to me than what I had but that's not saying much since all of the speakers were either blown or rotted out in the case of the bass and rear mids. (I didn't know Nokia made speakers!) Anyway I guess I have two questions: 1) Should I just unhook the rear speakers? It sounded to me like what you guys are saying that you're better off just using the fronts. 2) The sub came with an amp but it sounds like the amp for the interior cabin (which I didn't even know there was one) isn't good? If this is the case then is there a good amp I should buy to pair with these speakers? I've got $1100 wrapped up in the speaker system and another $600 in the Kenwood head unit. I don't care if I have to put another grand in it or so in order to make it sound decent. I like to listen to music loud and listen to everything from rock to jazz to classical. I get the feeling I should have just taken this to a professional audio shop and had them do the work as obviously I've got about 0 knowledge about car audio other than what sounds good to me. I definitely want to make it clear I'm in no way dissing what I got from BSW - I've only had them in for about an hour and listened to them at mid volumes driving around a bit. I just want to make sure that I have got everything I need installed to have the best listening experience necessary. Any constructive guidance / input would be extremely appreciated
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11-24-2009, 10:45 PM	#183
wjramsey New Member 0 Rep 5 Posts Drives: 1997 BMW 328i Convertible Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oxford, OH iTrader: (0)	Forgot something By the way I should mention at least for Micah that I was really happy with the service and quick delivery on the system I purchased. The YouTube videos on the installation were really helpful. The only suggestions I would have is that they were ordered a bit better and more clearly and that the instructions for removing the rear mid bass (which was really hard those things were fused in there) were a bit better and the section on installing the sub went over the removal of the trunk lining and such. I'm sure it'll be easy enough to figure it out but I was a bit nervous as a non car-audio professional pulling the panels out and all of these parts Thanks again!
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11-25-2009, 03:13 PM	#186
wjramsey New Member 0 Rep 5 Posts Drives: 1997 BMW 328i Convertible Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oxford, OH iTrader: (0)	Thanks Your lead audio tech is going to call me. I think I had some misunderstandings. I received a Rokford Fosgate amp along with the sub I purchased from you and it looks like the amp is for both your sub and the speakers in the cabin. Having a little bit of a fit problem with the sub where the brackets are too far out but as I said they're giving me a hand. Thanks for your replies
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-26-2009, 12:53 PM	#188
wjramsey New Member 0 Rep 5 Posts Drives: 1997 BMW 328i Convertible Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oxford, OH iTrader: (0)	Micah, Just an FYI. I was finally able to get everything installed and adjusted. Sounds great! So is the new amp you guys have been talking about a replacement for the factory amp that drives the cabin speakers? If so is that out yet or soon to be out? If not can you recommend a good replacement? I'm not sure if that is what you guys were talking about before when you said you couldn't really recommend an amp earlier .... Also I was able to find some Focal demo disks that sound absolutely fantastic! Does anyone have any idea how they do that - it sounds a lot different than what I hear on other cd's. I'm taking it that they're mastered or remastered differently somehow.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-27-2009, 01:30 PM	#189
Micah D. Cranman 44 Rep 208 Posts Drives: 2016 M3 Messing over Nutmeg Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego, CA iTrader: (0)	Yes, the amplifier will be a direct replacement for the factory amplifier that drives the cabin speakers. However, the connector / amplifier required varies from vehicle to vehicle. We have not yet determined if we will be offering an upgrade for E36 applications. It's an older car and we don't know if the market will bear a $699 upgrade. As for a good replacement, there really is nothing on the market that's direct fit. In addition, to use an aftermarket amp with our speakers, you'd need crossover networks, something we do not sell for your Stage 1. If you feel like you need an amp upgrade, really your best bet is to send the Stage 1 back and go custom for the interior speakers. As for the Focal disks, good production can make a huge difference. They're probably using harmonics for the bass / midbass to increase impact -- very common in modern hip-hop, etc. to make it sound decent and "impactful" even on mediocre stereos.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-27-2009, 02:40 PM	#190
wjramsey New Member 0 Rep 5 Posts Drives: 1997 BMW 328i Convertible Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oxford, OH iTrader: (0)	Thanks! Micah, Thanks for taking the time to respond to all of my questions. After installing the amp and the sub the stereo actually sounds really good so I don't plan on returning the system. I guess the more I read and learn about all of this the more interesting it becomes and the more I feel like toying with it. I do database and server performance tuning for a living so by nature I'm a "tweaker". I think I'm getting what you're saying now. Basically there are compromises you have to make to build a plug-and-play system where someone just wants to put in a new sound system without having to do a lot of playing around with it or having to have a lot of in-depth car audio knowledge. Given that I think I'm just going to leave well enough alone and confine my tweaking to adjusting the amp and some of the settings on my head unit and not overcomplicate things - as I said the system sounds great as is. I read up a little bit on crossover networks and I'm starting to see what you're talking about there. Since the subjects intriguing to me now I think I'll continue to learn about it but I'll just use my other car to experiment with which is going to be much more friendly to tinkering around with and that I'll not mind tearing around in as much. Again thanks for the information and the explanations and my apologies to everyone else for hijacking your thread!
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11-27-2009, 02:46 PM	#191
Micah D. Cranman 44 Rep 208 Posts Drives: 2016 M3 Messing over Nutmeg Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego, CA iTrader: (0)	Happy to help, glad to hear you're happy with performance! Let me know if you have any further questions or if there's anything else I can do for you!
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12-12-2009, 10:06 PM	#192
kjkaiser New Member 0 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 09 BMW 328i E90 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Massachusetts iTrader: (0)	10% Discount for BSW Products Available If anyone is interested, I have a 10% off coupon from BSW. If you use it, I will in turn get 10% my next purchase (I sure could use that discount!). Let me know and I will send the code to you.
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02-08-2010, 11:45 PM	#195
kjkaiser New Member 0 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 09 BMW 328i E90 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Massachusetts iTrader: (0)	I have a coupon for 10% off at BSW. Just enter the coupon code at checkout: Coupon Code: 9C9510CET106V101L10B Also, let me know if you use it.
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03-29-2010, 11:46 AM	#196
ProfessorCook Not a real doctor 0 Rep 10 Posts Drives: 2009 E92 328i Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Massachusetts iTrader: (0)	I have recently installed the BSW Stage 1 upgrade to my 328i coupe. I put together a supplemental DIY with pictures. If you're interested... http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...74#post5058574
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03-29-2010, 12:07 PM	#197
UdubBadger Banned 641 Rep 24,685 Posts Drives: '04 330i ZHP Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Chicago Burbs iTrader: (22) Garage List 2004 BMW 330i ZHP [9.50] 2011 135i [7.46] 2008 328xi [8.76]	how do you like it so far?
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03-29-2010, 03:48 PM	#198
ProfessorCook Not a real doctor 0 Rep 10 Posts Drives: 2009 E92 328i Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Massachusetts iTrader: (0)	So far, I like it very much. I immediately noticed better high frequency response, which I had been missing. I also noticed much more detail in the mid range. Of course, as mentioned in my other thread over on Bimmerfest, I cannot deny a placebo effect. After spending money and time and effort on something, you're naturally predisposed to think you've done great things. Still, I like it very much indeed. I'm not going to be sending the speaker set back. I added so much sound deadening material in the process, that the doors are noticeably heavier. This leaves me a bit concerned over the long term durability of the grab handle, but I don't think it's a big enough worry to go back in and strip out the material.
	Appreciate 0 Quote