[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Obioban

2nd life for car batteries will rapidly become a good supply. Most car batteries hit 80% of useable capacity by 250-500,000 miles. Most cars are off the road way before that point, and 20% deg is no problem for a grid battery starting point.

Have you looked into the recovery rate of Lithium from used batteries? It's not good.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by chassis

chad86tsi The doomsday scenario will not happen. It never does.

One idea is to take the current situation and turn it into a money making opportunity for yourself. Take your skills from the industry and sell them to the highest bidder, knowing full well there is a 30 year runway of grid evolution needed. It should carry you nicely into retirement.

I already have, I just like to warn my friends and those that are interested in hearing unpopular facts and unpublished realities.

I think the doomsday scenario will indeed never come to pass because the people won't allow it when realities start to rise above the bullshit. I hope to expedite that process.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Obioban

This is why I think when people ask me the payback period on my home solar/battery system, I think they're missing the point. I bought that stuff to maintain my quality of life first and foremost-- the fact that it'll pay for itself is just gravy.

there is pay back in some places, but not all places. It's sunny here 144 days a year. Payback in a solar system is 35-40 years here with my specific use-case. The cells themselves last 25 - 30 years. I get no gravy and I 'd have to pay upfront for the privilege. My neighbor got a quote on his system, cost $47K and generates/offsets $100-140 a month. Breakeven is somewhere in the 30 year range. I have cheap power where I live, 6-7 cents per KWH, so that's a huge Factor.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Have you looked into the recovery rate of Lithium from used batteries? It's not good.

a) I was talking about 2nd life of batteries, not recycling the materials within. Something more like this:
https://mashable.com/article/bmw-i3-2nd-life-batteries
Or this:
https://www.wwwatts.net/news/2017/10...tery-farm.html

b) Recycling the materials within will get better over time as demand increases, processes improve, and economies of scale get larger.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

there is pay back in some places, but not all places. It's sunny here 144 days a year. Payback in a solar system is 35-40 years here with my specific use-case. The cells themselves last 25 - 30 years. I get no gravy and I 'd have to pay upfront for the privilege. My neighbor got a quote on his system, cost $47K and generates/offsets $100-140 a month. Breakeven is somewhere in the 30 year range. I have cheap power where I live, 6-7 cents per KWH, so that's a huge Factor.

According to energysage, the average residental electric rate in portland, OR is $0.14/kwh. What are you doing to be less than half that?

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Obioban

According to energysage, the average residental electric rate in portland, OR is $0.14/kwh. What are you doing to be less than half that?

I live in a PUD, and it buys it's power directly from Bonneville Power (Federal hydro generation). Currently it's 6.70¢/kWh

Originally Posted by Obioban

a) I was talking about 2nd life of batteries, not recycling the materials within. Something more like this:
https://mashable.com/article/bmw-i3-2nd-life-batteries
Or this:
https://www.wwwatts.net/news/2017/10...tery-farm.html

b) Recycling the materials within will get better over time as demand increases, processes improve, and economies of scale get larger.

Those are the solutions we need. It's the timing of their development that concerns me. Until they are up and ready to be scaled appropriately, we need to watch out for solution vs demand alignment, especially if the demand and solution require some of the same limited resources.

[chassis]

2nd life battery storage systems are one example, of many, that will facilitate or enable the grid to do what it needs to do.

These systems are being produced today. The second life storage technology will get better, as technology always does.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by chassis

2nd life battery storage systems are one example, of many, that will facilitate or enable the grid to do what it needs to do.

These systems are being produced today. The second life storage technology will get better, as technology always does.

Where and when is anyone's guess.

[M5Rick]

Here's another vid on how the government has got it wrong..again,well hardly any of them drive.

[CDN-Driver]

Not yet, maybe 2027 or so.

[dreamingat30fps]

Just ended up taking the model 3 from FL up to NC and back. Usually we go up in the cayenne, but I was going by myself and gas is $$ and gf wanted to keep the SUV so I said fuck it, let's give it a shot.

Honestly since I never charge outside my garage I was really expecting this to suck ass. The GPS was telling me something like 12 or 13 hours, which even though it's technically like a 10.5-11 hour trip we have never made it in that time because we always have to stop. Usually we do it in 13-14 hours depending on traffic.

Anyways I must say it was actually quite enjoyable and charging was actually not bad at all. Since I left late and was driving alone I decided to stop half way at a hotel. I stopped to charge maybe 3 or 4 times each way. The GPS would purposely navigate you to chargers so you got there with a pretty low charge. So the bulk of the charging was done in like 10-15min although I would typically stay like 20min maybe 30 if I was eating at that stop. Since the hotels had EV charger I would be topped off with a full charge in the morning. So maybe had I not charged at the hotel it would have added another stop.

Regardless the charging stops were fast enough that by the time I went into the store, used the bathroom got something to drink or a snack it was charged enough to continue. If the charger was next to something I wanted to eat then I would let it go until I was done eating. It did not feel like a chore as I originally anticipated. Also having the auto pilot (aka adaptive cruise and lane centering) was great on the long highway stretches. Would definitely take it again when I go up.

[M5Rick]

With what's been mentioned already and now EV's fire self destructing in a storm hit state as mentioned in another thread which are mainly tesla's when water hits the lithium battery conductors making purchasing one of these very high risk.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Just ended up taking the model 3 from FL up to NC and back. Usually we go up in the cayenne, but I was going by myself and gas is $$ and gf wanted to keep the SUV so I said fuck it, let's give it a shot.

Honestly since I never charge outside my garage I was really expecting this to suck ass. The GPS was telling me something like 12 or 13 hours, which even though it's technically like a 10.5-11 hour trip we have never made it in that time because we always have to stop. Usually we do it in 13-14 hours depending on traffic.

Anyways I must say it was actually quite enjoyable and charging was actually not bad at all. Since I left late and was driving alone I decided to stop half way at a hotel. I stopped to charge maybe 3 or 4 times each way. The GPS would purposely navigate you to chargers so you got there with a pretty low charge. So the bulk of the charging was done in like 10-15min although I would typically stay like 20min maybe 30 if I was eating at that stop. Since the hotels had EV charger I would be topped off with a full charge in the morning. So maybe had I not charged at the hotel it would have added another stop.

Regardless the charging stops were fast enough that by the time I went into the store, used the bathroom got something to drink or a snack it was charged enough to continue. If the charger was next to something I wanted to eat then I would let it go until I was done eating. It did not feel like a chore as I originally anticipated. Also having the auto pilot (aka adaptive cruise and lane centering) was great on the long highway stretches. Would definitely take it again when I go up.

Nice man!

I haven’t road tripped my model 3 yet but I’d imagine it’ll be awesome. I don’t do long trips in this car but any commute I do the drive is so relaxing. The gps integration is so smart and tells you where you stop for charging along your route.

I don’t use AP as much but I tried it and it’s amazing lol

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Nice man!

I haven’t road tripped my model 3 yet but I’d imagine it’ll be awesome. I don’t do long trips in this car but any commute I do the drive is so relaxing. The gps integration is so smart and tells you where you stop for charging along your route.

I don’t use AP as much but I tried it and it’s amazing lol

First and only road trip in it so far. However I will definitely take it up again when I go on my own.

Otherwise it's mostly around town use and when we do take longer highway trips I still don't use AP much as it's mostly going towards Miami and those people down there are savages... AP is not ready for that level of driving.

However it's great on the open highways. Even if it doesn't seem like it does much as you still have to watch the road and hold the wheel... it does enough that it really makes the long drives less tiring. I will say I had the $1k comma ai device on a 2020 corolla for a while and I still prefer that system to AP and that shit even has face recognition so you can go full hands off as long as you look at the road. Plus just the way they implemented it felt way more seamless than AP.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

First and only road trip in it so far. However I will definitely take it up again when I go on my own.

Otherwise it's mostly around town use and when we do take longer highway trips I still don't use AP much as it's mostly going towards Miami and those people down there are savages... AP is not ready for that level of driving.

However it's great on the open highways. Even if it doesn't seem like it does much as you still have to watch the road and hold the wheel... it does enough that it really makes the long drives less tiring. I will say I had the $1k comma ai device on a 2020 corolla for a while and I still prefer that system to AP and that shit even has face recognition so you can go full hands off as long as you look at the road. Plus just the way they implemented it felt way more seamless than AP.

Black tesla on youtube uses his plaid to drive from NJ to NYC back and forth using only self-driving. The system makes a couple of errors but each update he has done, i believe his channel has about 6-7 revisions, and they get better each time. His one video, the car only had 1 error when making a left turn because it couldn't judge oncoming cars in relation to that oncoming car making his own left as well. The car stuttered and didn't know what to do.

A single mistake isn't bad when he was driving from northern jersey to midtown manhattan on full self driving. The system still has a couple of years away from giving the driver full confidence in this system but honestly, i think in a less congested city, the system now already works.

I only use my model 3 for my daily commute as i have other cars to drive on the weekend and such. I can NEVER EVER go back to an ICE daily. This is where it's at monday-friday commute

[G30M]

i tested a EV6 GT-Line (not the GT GT) the other day and it was the most comfortable long distance cruiser I've ever driven. I told the guy, "secretly, between you and me, this thing is better than my 2021 M340i with 1000 miles"

still have not changed my mind. there were just so much more plusses than minuses

the seats have more adjustment than anything i've ever driven such that I was in a semi reclined beach chair position and i was about to fall asleep in the thing.

it was quiet (roads here are harsh 84dB "chip seal" material even in the m340i)

it went where i pointed the steering - M340i surely better on track but these are windy off camber public roads and it was not troubled

it didn't lean in the corners at public road speeds

and it wasn't harsher than the M340i in the bumps

i have no idea how they did it

my mate tells me if you can find a charger, 10-80% in about just over 10 mins was what he managed!

if the headlights were better i'd buy that thing!
(and keep the m340i for those fun days)

[P1]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Black tesla on youtube uses his plaid to drive from NJ to NYC back and forth using only self-driving. The system makes a couple of errors but each update he has done, i believe his channel has about 6-7 revisions, and they get better each time. His one video, the car only had 1 error when making a left turn because it couldn't judge oncoming cars in relation to that oncoming car making his own left as well. The car stuttered and didn't know what to do.

A single mistake isn't bad when he was driving from northern jersey to midtown manhattan on full self driving. The system still has a couple of years away from giving the driver full confidence in this system but honestly, i think in a less congested city, the system now already works.

I only use my model 3 for my daily commute as i have other cars to drive on the weekend and such. I can NEVER EVER go back to an ICE daily. This is where it's at monday-friday commute

People will throw anything on YouTube, won't they?

"Comment, like and follow!"

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by P1

People will throw anything on YouTube, won't they?

"Comment, like and follow!"

The video content actually backed up what the poster wanted to show though.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by G99M5

i tested a EV6 GT-Line (not the GT GT) the other day and it was the most comfortable long distance cruiser I've ever driven. I told the guy, "secretly, between you and me, this thing is better than my 2021 M340i with 1000 miles"

still have not changed my mind. there were just so much more plusses than minuses

the seats have more adjustment than anything i've ever driven such that I was in a semi reclined beach chair position and i was about to fall asleep in the thing.

it was quiet (roads here are harsh 84dB "chip seal" material even in the m340i)

it went where i pointed the steering - M340i surely better on track but these are windy off camber public roads and it was not troubled

it didn't lean in the corners at public road speeds

and it wasn't harsher than the M340i in the bumps

i have no idea how they did it

my mate tells me if you can find a charger, 10-80% in about just over 10 mins was what he managed!

if the headlights were better i'd buy that thing!
(and keep the m340i for those fun days)

People with no EV experience like to focus on niche negatives, with the notion that it invalidates everything about the them, but the simple truth is that EVs are VASTLY better at the daily boring grind of a commute, that makes up 98% of driving.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Uyyyu09

I love the video

It's bitching about taking a car to a jankity charger. Come on. If the gas stations where I live all have water in the gas, is the car bad?

Nobody should get an electric car that hasn't done the research and doesn't know how to use them. It is what it is.

Shawn

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by G99M5

it was quiet (roads here are harsh 84dB "chip seal" material even in the m340i)

it went where i pointed the steering - M340i surely better on track but these are windy off camber public roads and it was not troubled

it didn't lean in the corners at public road speeds

and it wasn't harsher than the M340i in the bumps

i have no idea how they did it

It
has
a
1000lb
brick
at
the
bottom
of
the
car.

My i3 handled better than A LOT of gasoline cars. It's just one of the benefits of an electric car.

Shawn

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

It's bitching about taking a car to a jankity charger. Come on. If the gas stations where I live all have water in the gas, is the car bad?

Nobody should get an electric car that hasn't done the research and doesn't know how to use them. It is what it is.

Shawn

In my life I’ve logged about 800,000 miles of driving. I’d estimate the average mpg of all that travel at 20, and average refill at 20 gallons, so 400 miles between fillips. That’s about 2000 fillips in my life. Not once have I ever been unsuccessful at getting the amount of gas I wanted on the first try. Never have I had to go somewhere else once I pulled in, and besides a few occasions of waiting in line, it’s never taken more than 15 minutes. Typical is 7.

Switching to a drivetrain where my chances of charger success is anything less than 100% is a pretty big leap. Some charger audits have shown terrible success rates.