[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I wasn't just pointing at you when i said flood these threads. I don't even know who you are lol. This is the first time i am seeing your username posting in the same thread as me.

For me, i love debates, so i don't care at all if everyone argues (or tries to debate) with me on this subject in ANY thread. That's why i had to point out that i am not arguing on what is more green or not. You guys might be 100% right on why EV is more harmful.

I like evolution, as well as A LOT of people, something others, meaning basically everyone here in these threads, aren't realizing.

Cars are an appliance to most. We represent probably 2% of total car buyers who are labeled as "enthusiasts". We spend more money and value our cars more than the typical car buyer.

Most car buyers treat their cars as something like a phone. They buy (or lease), use, enjoy, then dispense and get the new and latest thing.

Using one simple example.

In 2012, tesla launched their model s.

When did that same car become the fastest car in the world?

2021?

So in 9 years, tesla (which is ONE car maker) took a car that was pretty shitty and turned it into one of most desired, looked upon EV's in today's world. It set the gold standard for performance and it's without a doubt the greatest EV for it's dollar, PERIOD. Even at it's price point.

This is why i said car makers will catch up but performance aside, people want regular cars right? Look up any car maker and see what EV's have to offer. Look back at 6-7 years and what did ANY of them have? Nothing.

You think 6-7 years is not enough time but you'll see how this accelerates as each year that passes.

5 years ago it was pretty common to see posts on this forum and many others that said in 5-10 years we'd all be driving autonomous vehicles. That whole thing has gotten pretty quiet. My point being that yes technology often moves quickly, shockingly fast sometimes. But there are a number of realities that I have posted already that aren't going to be overcome with technology as the logistical realities are what will slow it down.

I've posted on this threat a number of times as well as the Tesla thread and other threads regarding EV's and autonomous vehicles. I'm pretty comfortable with my common sense approach.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

5 years ago it was pretty common to see posts on this forum and many others that said in 5-10 years we'd all be driving autonomous vehicles. That whole thing has gotten pretty quiet. My point being that yes technology often moves quickly, shockingly fast sometimes. But there are a number of realities that I have posted already that aren't going to be overcome with technology as the logistical realities are what will slow it down.

I've posted on this threat a number of times as well as the Tesla thread and other threads regarding EV's and autonomous vehicles. I'm pretty comfortable with my common sense approach.

I highly suggest looking up tesla's FSD and all it's revisions and rethink that.

When tesla first brought out their first version of FSD, it fucking sucked. This was only in 2020.

Their autopilot system gets mimicked and yet their system is still better. Nothing comes close to tesla's FSD right now on the market for it's price point.

Black tesla on youtube has repeatedly tested it's FSD and all it's revisions and took his car from NNJ to NYC midtown on FSD alone. The earlier programs had many errors but with each update, he documented it and it became better and better. So much that the same drive from NNJ to midtown that had nearly 20 errors and almost 2 accidents turned into ONE error.

I don't full believe in fully autonomous at least for another decade. ANd i believe tesla will be the first.

But even if the system was perfected, would you get into a car with no driver? Would you really trust your car, if it was battle tested to be flawless, to drive you from A to B without you doing anything?

If not, then that's an irrelevant topic as of right now. But we will get there sooner than people think.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

That's why i had to point out that i am not arguing on what is more green or not. You guys might be 100% right on why EV is more harmful.

You are seeing the "green" argument used a lot because that's the reason these are being forced on all of us. You may not care, but others do, and they are the ones making this a problem for all of us.

I'm pro EV, they are a great evolution in transportation.

I'm anti-forced-solutions that have timelines that are unachievable, single-solution outcomes that that don't actually work for far too many.

I like evolution, as well as A LOT of people

Count me in on that too. I love evolution. It's so great, so why force it?

I'm also anti-green-mandates that cause substantial long term waste for short term gains. Unlike some, I do actually care about this green shit.

Like spending a dollar to save a dime, it costs more in the long run to feel good now. It's just stupid.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I highly suggest looking up tesla's FSD and all it's revisions and rethink that.

Tesla faces U.S. criminal probe over self-driving claims

https://www.reuters.com/legal/exclus...es-2022-10-26/

When tesla first brought out their first version of FSD, it fucking sucked. This was only in 2020.

It seems it still sucks.

[HerkHealer]

This may have been already discussed, but I just watched a Road and Track YT video about the new line of EV Cars from Mercedes.

They are REQUIRING you to pay $1200 per year to get the full advantages of your car.
That is BULLLLLLLLLLSHIT to me. They also mentioned that Tesla has this as well, but not as expensive or annually.

[XutvJet]

Automakers need stop making a majority of their EVs excessively and needlessly powerful. A vast majority don't need or want a vehicle that can do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. For most, 0-60 in 6 seconds is plenty powerful. Plus the EVs would squeeze out more battery mileage because they'd have lighter and smaller motor(s).

We're still a LONG off from a viable EV SUV/truck that can tow or an EV that doesn't get it's mileage pummeled by the cold.

Lastly, until you figure how easily and quickly charge EVs for those people that don't having a designated parking space/areas, there's no way you can have even 20% of the car owning public in EVs.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by HerkHealer

This may have been already discussed, but I just watched a Road and Track YT video about the new line of EV Cars from Mercedes.

They are REQUIRING you to pay $1200 per year to get the full advantages of your car.
That is BULLLLLLLLLLSHIT to me. They also mentioned that Tesla has this as well, but not as expensive or annually.

To be fair, BMW is doing this as well aren't they? Aren't they charging a monthly or yearly subscription for your heated seats now?

So let's not all attack EV's. Car companies do this for a reason. Some people might want a certain feature of a car but not everything else that comes with a "package".

I guess it doesn't matter since they're coming anyway. But i suppose it's cool to debate to give yourselves false reassurance.

[HerkHealer]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

To be fair, BMW is doing this as well aren't they? Aren't they charging a monthly or yearly subscription for your heated seats now?

So let's not all attack EV's. Car companies do this for a reason. Some people might want a certain feature of a car but not everything else that comes with a "package".

I guess it doesn't matter since they're coming anyway. But i suppose it's cool to debate to give yourselves false reassurance.

Not in the USA they're not.
At least not yet.
MB is doing this in the USA.

[HerkHealer]

And from what I remember with the BMW program, you can pay a one time / lifetime fee up front to get everything for life.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Tesla faces U.S. criminal probe over self-driving claims

https://www.reuters.com/legal/exclus...es-2022-10-26/

To me Tesla and Theranos are the same

I have no idea why the poor lady at Theranos is getting 11 years jail time. she never cashed any of her shares.

but I do love Kia, WAG and BMW EVs!

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by HerkHealer

Not in the USA they're not.
At least not yet.
MB is doing this in the USA.

So then shame on MB.

I do believe this is ok to a certain extent, as i noted in my post you quoted.

It is wrong if car makers in the future to just be tacking on fees for nothing. However that just proves my point that car makers have to catch up to tesla.

While there is no doubt the MB EQ EV or whatever that model is is VERY NICE. I think MB interiors are THE BEST of ANY car maker, and yes MB shits on BMW with interiors, that 1200 annual fee is bullshit.

Again, car makers will catch up to where everyone is on an even playing field and car buying will basically be about who is more brand loyal. And who has the better tech.

Performance wise, i think in 2 decades every car maker will be exactly the same in terms of performance. You just have to pick which model you like looking at aesthetically and which has the better interior.

Maybe i won't be a tesla owner in the future and i will get MB as my EV of choice. But right now, in terms of what an actual EV is, tesla is number 1. Will be that way for a while.

[HerkHealer]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

So then shame on MB.

I do believe this is ok to a certain extent, as i noted in my post you quoted.

It is wrong if car makers in the future to just be tacking on fees for nothing. However that just proves my point that car makers have to catch up to tesla.

While there is no doubt the MB EQ EV or whatever that model is is VERY NICE. I think MB interiors are THE BEST of ANY car maker, and yes MB shits on BMW with interiors, that 1200 annual fee is bullshit.

Again, car makers will catch up to where everyone is on an even playing field and car buying will basically be about who is more brand loyal. And who has the better tech.

Performance wise, i think in 2 decades every car maker will be exactly the same in terms of performance. You just have to pick which model you like looking at aesthetically and which has the better interior.

Maybe i won't be a tesla owner in the future and i will get MB as my EV of choice. But right now, in terms of what an actual EV is, tesla is number 1. Will be that way for a while.

100% agree with what you've said.
I'm "tempted" to get into the EV world, especially interested in the KIA Ev6, which has new charging tech that gets you 80% battery in 15 minutes.
Several YT videos give it a nod above Tesla, which is impressive.

What I dont like is BMW, MB and others charging customers for normal shit you already paid for. I'm all for Capitalism, but this bullshit is going overboard.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by HerkHealer

100% agree with what you've said.
I'm "tempted" to get into the EV world, especially interested in the KIA Ev6, which has new charging tech that gets you 80% battery in 15 minutes.
Several YT videos give it a nod above Tesla, which is impressive.

What I dont like is BMW, MB and others charging customers for normal shit you already paid for. I'm all for Capitalism, but this bullshit is going overboard.

The EV6 GT is very nice. The interior is crazy good. Just like a normal ICE car. However for me, i like to see which car checks most boxes and the tesla still has it beat. Especially when it comes to performance. While that isn't really a big deal for a commuter, it is really fun. If i wanted to just get a car with better styling or interior, i wouldn't even buy an EV then, might as well get a regular ICE car to commute with. But i wanted an EV to commute. And i can never go back to an ICE daily. EV's are so good when you work out your charging situation, commute routes etc, it is so good.

The last SC i used for my model 3 was at a wawa. I literally plugged it in, went inside, got some snacks, played some lotto. After all that, waiting on line, paying, i go out and sit on my phone for about 6-8 minutes and before you know it it was 80% already. The charging wait times isn't that bad if you know how to manage your time. But i know some people want instantaneous results. We'll get there trust me.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Total car sales annually is between 74-78 Million. I'm not sure EV's have market share yet at 3.4% of total sales. ICE are going to be around for a very long time. https://housegrail.com/new-car-statistics/

With Tesla owning 68% of that market share.

[HerkHealer]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

The EV6 GT is very nice. The interior is crazy good. Just like a normal ICE car. However for me, i like to see which car checks most boxes and the tesla still has it beat. Especially when it comes to performance. While that isn't really a big deal for a commuter, it is really fun. If i wanted to just get a car with better styling or interior, i wouldn't even buy an EV then, might as well get a regular ICE car to commute with. But i wanted an EV to commute. And i can never go back to an ICE daily. EV's are so good when you work out your charging situation, commute routes etc, it is so good.

The last SC i used for my model 3 was at a wawa. I literally plugged it in, went inside, got some snacks, played some lotto. After all that, waiting on line, paying, i go out and sit on my phone for about 6-8 minutes and before you know it it was 80% already. The charging wait times isn't that bad if you know how to manage your time. But i know some people want instantaneous results. We'll get there trust me.

Suggest you look into the EV6 interior vs Tesla. Every single review I've watched said it's better. Maybe it's just advertising, who knows, but it sure seems intriguing. The GT version is also impressive on the power scale, if you're interested in that. We wont get the USA version until next year, but the initial reviews from Countries who currently have it are very impressive. Reviews consistently point out the EV6 is much quieter in the cabin vs the tesla. Again, i've never driven either this is just off reviews.


Said that, I would not buy a year #1 car ever. Too many bugs to work out.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

So then shame on MB.

I do believe this is ok to a certain extent, as i noted in my post you quoted.

It is wrong if car makers in the future to just be tacking on fees for nothing. However that just proves my point that car makers have to catch up to tesla.

While there is no doubt the MB EQ EV or whatever that model is is VERY NICE. I think MB interiors are THE BEST of ANY car maker, and yes MB shits on BMW with interiors, that 1200 annual fee is bullshit.

Again, car makers will catch up to where everyone is on an even playing field and car buying will basically be about who is more brand loyal. And who has the better tech.

Performance wise, i think in 2 decades every car maker will be exactly the same in terms of performance. You just have to pick which model you like looking at aesthetically and which has the better interior.

Maybe i won't be a tesla owner in the future and i will get MB as my EV of choice. But right now, in terms of what an actual EV is, tesla is number 1. Will be that way for a while.

Yawn X5

[G30M]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

Yawn X5

I've Ordered a EV6 but I'm now getting itchy about getting a M550i ... *sigh

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by HerkHealer

100% agree with what you've said.
I'm "tempted" to get into the EV world, especially interested in the KIA Ev6, which has new charging tech that gets you 80% battery in 15 minutes.
Several YT videos give it a nod above Tesla, which is impressive.

What I dont like is BMW, MB and others charging customers for normal shit you already paid for. I'm all for Capitalism, but this bullshit is going overboard.

The Hyundai/Kia E-GMP 800v architecture is current charging king.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

And this is where charging time vs. ICE matters, towing and cold. Has anyone besides me question why there is no EPA MPGe rating for cold/winter operation of EV? And no manufacturer publishes the data either. Why because the range-anxiety buying public would not accept the reduced range. Best I can find is a minimum drop of 25% range on average.

My wife and I were looking to move into a pick up truck earlier this year. I took a hard look at the F150 Lighting after seeing some of the ads. I'm not an EV fan and was of the view I'd never buy one but the Lightning had me looking. The range wasn't great, but I thought we might be able to live with that, and then out came the reports about the range dropping below 1/2 with a moderate to light trailer. I live in Canada, we get winter and I on occasion tow. Sorry, the notion of the Lightning stopped right there.

We bought a Ram 1500 ecoDiesel. The thing is brilliant, and it gets better than 30MPG in real world use with 1100Km range. Diesel fuel isn't cheap, but I will likely keep this thing for a long time and I will never have range anxiety.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

My wife and I were looking to move into a pick up truck earlier this year. I took a hard look at the F150 Lighting after seeing some of the ads. I'm not an EV fan and was of the view I'd never buy one but the Lightning had me looking. The range wasn't great, but I thought we might be able to live with that, and then out came the reports about the range dropping below 1/2 with a moderate to light trailer. I live in Canada, we get winter and I on occasion tow. Sorry, the notion of the Lightning stopped right there.

We bought a Ram 1500 ecoDiesel. The thing is brilliant, and it gets better than 30MPG in real world use with 1100Km range. Diesels isn't cheap, but I will likely keep this thing for a long time and I will never have range anxiety.

Sounds like you need a Cyber Truck! Oh wait...

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by HerkHealer

Suggest you look into the EV6 interior vs Tesla. Every single review I've watched said it's better. Maybe it's just advertising, who knows, but it sure seems intriguing. The GT version is also impressive on the power scale, if you're interested in that. We wont get the USA version until next year, but the initial reviews from Countries who currently have it are very impressive. Reviews consistently point out the EV6 is much quieter in the cabin vs the tesla. Again, i've never driven either this is just off reviews.


Said that, I would not buy a year #1 car ever. Too many bugs to work out.

No i know the EV6 has a "nicer" interior than my tesla. Tesla is about simplicity. They are kings at it. A formula that works.

Hell i think the EV6 interior looks better than my M3 interior. This isn't a battle of what interior is better or i wouldn't even get an EV, i would get the new C300 from MB. Now THAT is an insane interior.

Road/tire noise is much improved each year. I have driven a 2020 model 3. It is much louder than my 2022. Although i don't remember what tires were on the 2020.

It's not the perfect EV however it IS the perfect EV when you look at every aspect as a whole, for the price point. That's why people buy them and that's why they're number 1.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

No i know the EV6 has a "nicer" interior than my tesla. Tesla is about simplicity. They are kings at it. A formula that works.

Hell i think the EV6 interior looks better than my M3 interior. This isn't a battle of what interior is better or i wouldn't even get an EV, i would get the new C300 from MB. Now THAT is an insane interior.

Road/tire noise is much improved each year. I have driven a 2020 model 3. It is much louder than my 2022. Although i don't remember what tires were on the 2020.

It's not the perfect EV however it IS the perfect EV when you look at every aspect as a whole, for the price point. That's why people buy them and that's why they're number 1.

Yawn X6