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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > F30 Performance brakes in E92 335i



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      07-20-2017, 03:37 PM   #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by R99 View Post
There is no soft pedal with just the fronts on!
Correct.
But why ? :
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      07-20-2017, 03:47 PM   #948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus335iguy View Post
But why ? :
Honestly, I don't know, other than maybe our assumption is wrong regarding the numbers on the master cylinder casting. at VT we have installed 340mm on the front only on two different 335i's and neither exhibited soft pedal. Half a dozen cars with front and rear retrofit did and M3 master cylinder remedied the issue. Isn't like Brembo in Porsche car but still considerably better than non M master cylinder.

Also, for your situation, my suggestion is to just order new master for RHS. Don't mess with booster retrofit and stuff. Is just not worth your time.
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      07-20-2017, 04:01 PM   #949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus335iguy View Post
But why ? :
Honestly, I don't know, other than maybe our assumption is wrong regarding the numbers on the master cylinder casting. at VT we have installed 340mm on the front only on two different 335i's and neither exhibited soft pedal. Half a dozen cars with front and rear retrofit did and M3 master cylinder remedied the issue. Isn't like Brembo in Porsche car but still considerably better than non M master cylinder.

Also, for your situation, my suggestion is to just order new master for RHS. Don't mess with booster retrofit and stuff. Is just not worth your time.
I'm fairly certain that the assumption regarding the numbers is actually correct because when digging through the net trying to find a master cylinder the one that I bought has dimensions in the spec sheet that says cylinder 1 and 2 and the diameter symbol and then the numbers 27 and 22 respectively....

Could it be that there is actually no mushy pedal when installing these it's just that when the rears are installed they are much harder to bleed properly?

Apart from ordering a a brand new RHD master cylinder I can't find one to buy!!!! There were a couple on eBay in the U.K. before but they're gone.
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      07-20-2017, 05:04 PM   #950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus335iguy View Post
I'm fairly certain that the assumption regarding the numbers is actually correct because when digging through the net trying to find a master cylinder the one that I bought has dimensions in the spec sheet that says cylinder 1 and 2 and the diameter symbol and then the numbers 27 and 22 respectively....

Could it be that there is actually no mushy pedal when installing these it's just that when the rears are installed they are much harder to bleed properly?

Apart from ordering a a brand new RHD master cylinder I can't find one to buy!!!! There were a couple on eBay in the U.K. before but they're gone.
Then I can't explan why BBK designed for the car like Stop Tech or the BMW yellow e9x Performance brakes don't exhibit mushy brake pedal. It would be equally dificult to bleed them. Don't you think?

Order new cylinder if use isn't available. . I know you like the challenge but this isn't where you want to improvise. Time, effort and money on other random parts will equal new m3 RHD cylinder. Plus you might find out that it won't work.
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      07-20-2017, 08:25 PM   #951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R99 View Post
Yeh, parting out.

I'm in the market for a 40d X5.
price for the rears with and without discs

cheers
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      07-21-2017, 07:27 AM   #952
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I personally would just fit the calipers and see what happens. The master swap is a big messy job to do at home and i'm sure your back will be knackered after doing the calipers alone on stands haha

I replied to the other thread but basically i am happy enough with my setup after i finally found the root cause of my inconsistent brake response (vacuum pump leak). I drive 1Ms and M3s (both E9x and F8x) for work and i cant help but think that there is more to it than just mechanical parts which contribute to the way our brakes feel.

If BMW stipulates you must encode/program the vehicle (DSC specifically) to tell it it has the 6pot/2pot Performance brake kit, there has to be a legit reason for it. Many people reported a positive difference after adding SPBR to their VO following an F30 Brembo upgrade on their E9x. It is my belief that there is a software restriction on the fluid flow volume and rate which is holding back the true performance of these calipers.
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      07-21-2017, 03:06 PM   #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus335iguy View Post
Thanks r99 I believe you because I know that you've done it but I'd love for someone to explain why that would be the case as my humble logic says that it shouldn't.

There are three times more pistons in the front and only double going into the rear. Maybe it's the area of the pistons ... ?

Did you end up changing your master cylinder @R99 ?

It sounds like maybe I should do the fronts and then the rears later ....
Just change the fronts and keep the rear OEM.
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      07-21-2017, 04:23 PM   #954
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I personally would just fit the calipers and see what happens. The master swap is a big messy job to do at home and i'm sure your back will be knackered after doing the calipers alone on stands haha

I replied to the other thread but basically i am happy enough with my setup after i finally found the root cause of my inconsistent brake response (vacuum pump leak). I drive 1Ms and M3s (both E9x and F8x) for work and i cant help but think that there is more to it than just mechanical parts which contribute to the way our brakes feel.

If BMW stipulates you must encode/program the vehicle (DSC specifically) to tell it it has the 6pot/2pot Performance brake kit, there has to be a legit reason for it. Many people reported a positive difference after adding SPBR to their VO following an F30 Brembo upgrade on their E9x. It is my belief that there is a software restriction on the fluid flow volume and rate which is holding back the true performance of these calipers.
Funny you should mention your vacuum leak. The only other difference on M3s is the Addition of a vacuum pump. Whether it's the whole cause or just a contributor remains to be seen. Race cars don't use boosters because the feel is inconsistent(among other reasons). What if that's the reason they put it in n the first place ?
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      07-21-2017, 04:34 PM   #955
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These guys used to do one of these for e9x but it's not listed on their website anymore(even though the link still says it)
https://www.chasebays.com/products/c...631494729#sidr
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      07-21-2017, 07:14 PM   #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus335iguy View Post
Funny you should mention your vacuum leak. The only other difference on M3s is the Addition of a vacuum pump. Whether it's the whole cause or just a contributor remains to be seen. Race cars don't use boosters because the feel is inconsistent(among other reasons). What if that's the reason they put it in n the first place ?
Both M and non M have vaccum pump.
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      07-21-2017, 07:18 PM   #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus335iguy View Post
Funny you should mention your vacuum leak. The only other difference on M3s is the Addition of a vacuum pump. Whether it's the whole cause or just a contributor remains to be seen. Race cars don't use boosters because the feel is inconsistent(among other reasons). What if that's the reason they put it in n the first place ?
Both M and non M have vaccum pump.
Really? I've been led astray by people here then. What other differences are there ?
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      07-21-2017, 07:48 PM   #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus335iguy View Post
Really? I've been led astray by people here then. What other differences are there ?
M is electric and non M is mechanical http://r.ebay.com/xPt45I Who told you M doesn't have air pump? In retribution have them but you M master cylinder.
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      07-21-2017, 09:21 PM   #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus335iguy View Post
Really? I've been led astray by people here then. What other differences are there ?
M is electric and non M is mechanical http://r.ebay.com/xPt45I Who told you M doesn't have air pump? In retribution have them but you M master cylinder.
Haha, yeah they should !
On a slightly related note http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=589753
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      07-22-2017, 03:39 AM   #960
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M3 has an electric assistant vac pump, same as what is fitted to several current model cars like the Cruze turbo. I considered plumbing in an aux pump and i probably will do it if the vac pump packs up. I've got all the means and tools to replace the mechanical vac pump on my motor but it's easier to just setup an electric one. Hella makes two versions. The second version is designed for electrics and hybrids so the pump is the sole source of vacuum whereas the more common version is suited only for supplementary use.

1M obviously has the same engine driven vac pump as an N54/N55. I really dont think vacuum strength or supply is my issue. Both 1M and M3 have a very similar brake feel/response. Im looking into it but i hope it isn't software and DSC module differences. After all, we will never get MDM... M3/1M uses a different DSC module
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      07-25-2017, 01:48 PM   #961
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There is so much GREAT information on here. I just want to double check before I go off and purchase anything. To make sure what I am reading is correct.

I am looking to keep the same size rotors on my car but if I wanted to add the F30 4pot 340mm calipers these would fit with no issues on the factory 345mm rotor set up?

Then in the rear I can use a 135 caliper and mill the mounting tabs 12mm to fit on my factory rear rotors?

If this is the case, what brake lines are used? I would want to upgrade those as well as the E9x M3 master.

Thanks for ALL the help in advance!
Phil
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      07-25-2017, 04:40 PM   #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus335iguy View Post
Haha, yeah they should !
On a slightly related note http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=589753
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1188080&page=2
post#22 post#27 how did you missed it? To your defense it was a year ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdlobe View Post
There is so much GREAT information on here. I just want to double check before I go off and purchase anything. To make sure what I am reading is correct.
We need to know what car you have. I assume 335i
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdlobe View Post
I am looking to keep the same size rotors on my car but if I wanted to add the F30 4pot 340mm calipers these would fit with no issues on the factory 345mm rotor set up?
No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdlobe View Post
Then in the rear I can use a 135 caliper and mill the mounting tabs 12mm to fit on my factory rear rotors?
No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdlobe View Post
If this is the case, what brake lines are used? I would want to upgrade those as well as the E9x M3 master.
Brake lines are interchangeable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdlobe View Post
Thanks for ALL the help in advance!
Phil
You welcome.
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      07-25-2017, 04:42 PM   #963
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You welcome.
You're* - Thanks, Ill keep reading.
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      07-26-2017, 05:23 AM   #964
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You welcome.
You're* - Thanks, Ill keep reading.
@thirdlobe be a gentleman.
Allow me to rephrase that for you...what you meant to say was ...
feuer thanks !
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      07-26-2017, 08:35 AM   #965
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@thirdlobe be a gentleman.
Allow me to rephrase that for you...what you meant to say was ...
feuer thanks !
As I do appreciate you wanting to speak for me, I dont feel I was rude. I was just as sterile as the replies.

feuer is a wealth of information and I am pretty sure while doing more reading from this thread it was said, if you do not grasp the content of doing this mod, it may not be for you.

I do thank everyone in this thread but it is daunting to go through 40+ pages but I see it must be done.
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      07-26-2017, 10:43 AM   #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juld0zer View Post
I personally would just fit the calipers and see what happens. The master swap is a big messy job to do at home and i'm sure your back will be knackered after doing the calipers alone on stands haha
The master swap is an easy job.
But is you aren't doing the lines like I was it can be messy.

I swapped calipers and lines (braided lines) and since the system was empty the master swap took all of 20 minutes.
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      07-26-2017, 11:29 PM   #967
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are 340mm worth it over stock 335i's besides for looks or is it worth it to look for a 370mm kit?

also from what i read no m3 MC needed for only a front 340mm swap but would it improve braking?

asking bc just scored some 34116850931 34116850932 f30 calipers for my 335i and wanting to see if i should resell them and get a 370mm kit

Thanks
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      08-04-2017, 10:39 PM   #968
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Finally fitted up my fronts today thanks to juld0zer .
Also fitted the m3 master. Feels good so far. I need some more seat time before I'll comment but initial observations are that they feel much better than stock.
The 370mm set fits behind 225 wheels just great.
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