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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > I cloned my MSV70 DME



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      09-15-2014, 09:18 PM   #23
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On further reading, msv80 has a tricore cpu. So you need something that can get into boot mode and read the internal flash of the cpu.
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      09-18-2014, 02:14 PM   #24
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poked around some more. Found the vanos maps (includes target angles as well as intake/exhaust spreads) and intake valve lift. Unsurprisingly, the VVL table is the largest at 20x20. max lift on the 330i is 9.7mm - anyone know the mechanical limits? the load axis is actually RF calculated from VANOS instead of the MAF. it's not easy to wrap your mind around.

might start with playing around with the rev limit. it has an "over rev" watch at 7200. I'm thinking that's as high as you'd want to push it safely. I want to play more with how the rev limit happens than the RPM itself.
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      09-18-2014, 02:49 PM   #25
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Great job Hass
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      09-18-2014, 03:22 PM   #26
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Wow! Hats off! I have a couple of questions. I want to put some issues to rest regarding the 325i and 330i. ECU-wise, what is the difference between the 2 programs? Even as of today, tuners can't achieve more than stock 330 power levels on a 325 with a tune and and 3-stage intake manifold. Speculation suggested that there was some variable(s) the engine tuning software could not accessed that "unlocked" the 330 maps. One forum member had a very brief appearance here and suggested that one of the variables was in the CAS module. What I'd love to do here is get a stock 330 engine map to work on a 325 with the 3 stage intake manifold.
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      09-18-2014, 04:44 PM   #27
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9.9mm lift is the mechanical maximum.
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      09-18-2014, 04:48 PM   #28
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wow man. nice work.
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      09-18-2014, 04:50 PM   #29
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if you made the lift to 9.9, what kind of improvements would you see?
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      09-18-2014, 04:55 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emozoo View Post
if you made the lift to 9.9, what kind of improvements would you see?
Power.
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      09-18-2014, 05:07 PM   #31
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10mm = collision ? or the valvetronic motor/assembly can only do 9.9?
thx
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      09-18-2014, 05:20 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Power.
like what, 10 hp?.. Im new to all this lifter jazz
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      09-18-2014, 05:22 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90pilot View Post
Wow! Hats off! I have a couple of questions. I want to put some issues to rest regarding the 325i and 330i. ECU-wise, what is the difference between the 2 programs? Even as of today, tuners can't achieve more than stock 330 power levels on a 325 with a tune and and 3-stage intake manifold. Speculation suggested that there was some variable(s) the engine tuning software could not accessed that "unlocked" the 330 maps. One forum member had a very brief appearance here and suggested that one of the variables was in the CAS module. What I'd love to do here is get a stock 330 engine map to work on a 325 with the 3 stage intake manifold.
I think that's probably nonsense. they aren't going to put critical engine variables in a completely separate module for 1 model produced for 1 year.

the difficulty lies in the complexity of the tunes. There's a mind boggling number of variables, curves and maps, and exactly how they work together is unclear.

I think what would be more feasible would be to flash the entire DME except for the secret key/vin/etc for the CAS with a dump from a 330i. The trick is going to be finding which sectors on the different memory chips have the relevant info. you could probably copy/paste all the variables from a 330i to a 325i but that would be tedious and risky due to the level of complexity.

Also I'm pretty certain you can't flash a 328i DME with 330i code, because they are a different architecture entirely. But I do wonder if you could plug in a 330i DME into a 328i.. I'd have to study wiring diagrams. you'd still have to get it to play nicely with the CAS, but that's essentially the same issue as the 325.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
9.9mm lift is the mechanical maximum.
Good to know. It's easy enough to test! now I just need money/time to hit up the dyno and test things one at a time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David0ff View Post
10mm = collision ? or the valvetronic motor/assembly can only do 9.9?
thx
probably a little of both. since you can control lift, overlap, and timing, there's the potential to contact both pistons and the exhaust valves, with the riskiest point being ATDC of the intake stroke.

0.2mm of lift probably isn't going to make a huge difference in power though. 10.5mm or 11mm would probably see gains but that would require cams.

It would be interesting to compare a dump from a 325i. if anyone has one, send it my way!
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      09-18-2014, 05:40 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David0ff View Post
10mm = collision ? or the valvetronic motor/assembly can only do 9.9?
thx
More than likely the mechanica/physical limit of the system, you would likely need a larger lobe to get more lift/duration.
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      09-18-2014, 05:42 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emozoo View Post
like what, 10 hp?.. Im new to all this lifter jazz
Hard to say, depends on head flow, but for an extra .3km that seems too high, in combination with ignition timing, fuel and more aggressive vvt maps, yeah 10whp or more.
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      09-18-2014, 05:45 PM   #36
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I'd love to see what you can do and a true custom tune will make more than an off the shelf tune, but how much is the question. I'll be watching thia thread.
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      09-18-2014, 09:10 PM   #37
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Where do you live..? I'm bringing my car to you for a tune lol
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      09-18-2014, 10:18 PM   #38
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I can't tune it yet lol. I can change values but i don't know what the effects are yet. That will take time..
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      09-19-2014, 10:23 AM   #39
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Good project. Hopefully you have a donor engine or two in case something goes awry.
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      09-19-2014, 11:19 AM   #40
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I'm not going to blow my engine, lol, but thanks for the concern.

a member sent me a 325i dump, thanks! also, I looked in the 4kb eprom, the VIN is written in there (or at least the serial #). I'm thinking the secret key is as well. theoretically you could flash the CPU and external memory with an entire 330i file on the 325i and have the same tune. i'll need to test by taking the original donor ECU and flashing just my 4kb eprom, then see if it starts.
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      09-19-2014, 11:42 AM   #41
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I have a 323I 2.5L 08 N52K with a factory 3 stage
Please if you have a moment give me a step by step on how to copy the dump and I will send it to you.
Where did you get the BDm header?


I want to know how much BMW cripples the maps and valve depth from factory.
Thx
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      09-19-2014, 11:53 AM   #42
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325i intake valve map:


330i intake valve map:


low load is basically the same but part load and full load are completely different. at first I thought the 325i was more aggressive but now that I see it, it basically peaks out at about 80% load. I guess partly to make up for the lack of the 3 stage manifold?

this is really just scratching the surface though. this will take months of effort to figure out, I don't even know what the effects of this map and many others truly are.

I have to stop for today but I'll post more as I find it.

oh yeah, the left axis is rf (relative filling) and the top axis is of course RPM. the units are in mm.
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      09-19-2014, 11:57 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David0ff View Post
I have a 323I 2.5L 08 N52K with a factory 3 stage
Please if you have a moment give me a step by step on how to copy the dump and I will send it to you.
Where did you get the BDm header?


I want to know how much BMW cripples the maps and valve depth from factory.
Thx
I don't really have a step by step - you need a BDM reader and software of course! the headers are from mouser.com (2x5, 0.27mm) but that's the easy part unfortunately. also, I think you have an MSV80 DME which is completely different from MSV70. I don't know if anything in the tune is similar but reading the flash is definitely not.

there are easier ways to download the stock tune over OBD but BDM is the only way to "clone" a dme including the ISN, and it's also much faster.
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      09-19-2014, 12:05 PM   #44
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I see,
I am not really looking to clone it
I just want to add valve depth, remove 6500 rpm limit and bump it to 7000 and remove top speed limiter.
Thx Hass
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