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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > I cloned my MSV70 DME



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      09-26-2014, 05:04 PM   #89
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toyed with valve lift a bit. there's also a full load (vollast) map of course. I found the factor for maxiumum lift (10mm). I set the VL map to 10mm from 9.7, can't say I can tell any difference, but I'm not surprised. it's only maybe 3% increase at most. I'll reset it to stock before getting a base line.

I also tweaked the torque scaling factor for torque reduction requests via CAN (aka, traction control). basically it's a scaling factor, so if the ABS system requests a 50% reduction in torque, it multiplies that by the scaling factor and that's what it uses to reduce the actual torque output (this is way simplified but you get the idea).

stock was set to 400nm, I started with 200nm. coming from a car without any form of traction control, I found it to be pretty annoying and maybe even a little dangerous. I might play with it further but at half of what it was before, it seems much better - enough for a bit of safety factor, but not so much that it feels like somebody put the car in neutral. it would give me a little bit of wheelspin without letting it get out of control. too bad the car doesn't have LSD..

I set the fuel cut additive factor to 0 to see what happens. it still hits the spark retard first, basically can't tell any difference from stock.. there's a bunch of constants for disabling spark retard, I'll just have to try them and see if I can make the rev limit fuel cut only.

so far the only change that's really improved anything is the torque scaling factor, but there's still a lot to learn!
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      09-26-2014, 05:19 PM   #90
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Some pretty cool stuff! I have a small request if you can entertain it. I'm not sure if anyone else has experienced this, but the car has a "soft lift" feature that is actually quite irritating. Basically the car will close the throttle slowly to smooth out the driver input. While there's a turning force, the effect is amplified. I actually find it dangerous. If the car is understeering and I lift to get the front to grip, it won't let me. In fact it keeps accelerating sometimes. If you can find that table, that alone would make my day.
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      09-26-2014, 05:26 PM   #91
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interesting. I haven't driven the car hard enough to notice that, but I'll keep my eye out.
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      09-26-2014, 06:05 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90pilot View Post
I'm fairly confident you're correct. I've done some pretty extensive research on the physical differences between 325 and 330 engines. They are IDENTICAL. Same part numbers for everything including long block, head, ECU. The only differences are the muffler and and intake manifold. I'm not sure about the software because I haven't looked into it. I know the software is extremely complicated and that there is a difference between the two cars. What we've seen here is just one table. There are hundreds more for all sorts of things.

BudVlad, you have an N53 so I can't comment on that.
There are other differences as well, gearing/weight/etc... might not play to the 330i advantage but the other way around actually, all I'm saying is that it could be faster or slower.... we can't assume we would need to find out anybody with a 3stage/tune 325i wants to come by Montreal?
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      10-04-2014, 08:47 AM   #93
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I'm now an expert at re-synching my DME with the CAS. lol

I need to come up with a better way to flash the DME (other than OBD, which is slowwwwww). I'm thinking I can put in a switch to turn on the DME by itself. the problem is when you put the DME into boot mode, the other modules freak out. if I can leave everything else turned off (like the CAS) it would be much faster. it takes about 1 minute to flash the DME, but then it takes me 10 minutes screwing around with INPA to get the CAS to talk to it again. Also with the DME in boot mode and the ignition on, it runs the fuel pump continuously which drains my battery.

If I want to go to a dyno and do some tuning, I'll want to be much closer to 1 minute per change (which hurts when you're paying $150/hr). it's too bad it's not like an aftermarket DME where it takes .1 seconds to flash a map, but I knew that when I signed up.
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      10-04-2014, 09:30 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
toyed with valve lift a bit. there's also a full load (vollast) map of course. I found the factor for maxiumum lift (10mm). I set the VL map to 10mm from 9.7, can't say I can tell any difference, but I'm not surprised. it's only maybe 3% increase at most. I'll reset it to stock before getting a base line.

I also tweaked the torque scaling factor for torque reduction requests via CAN (aka, traction control). basically it's a scaling factor, so if the ABS system requests a 50% reduction in torque, it multiplies that by the scaling factor and that's what it uses to reduce the actual torque output (this is way simplified but you get the idea).

stock was set to 400nm, I started with 200nm. coming from a car without any form of traction control, I found it to be pretty annoying and maybe even a little dangerous. I might play with it further but at half of what it was before, it seems much better - enough for a bit of safety factor, but not so much that it feels like somebody put the car in neutral. it would give me a little bit of wheelspin without letting it get out of control. too bad the car doesn't have LSD..

I set the fuel cut additive factor to 0 to see what happens. it still hits the spark retard first, basically can't tell any difference from stock.. there's a bunch of constants for disabling spark retard, I'll just have to try them and see if I can make the rev limit fuel cut only.

so far the only change that's really improved anything is the torque scaling factor, but there's still a lot to learn!
It's neat that you were able to back off the TC.

I had to take my care to the dealer last year for something myself or my regular mechanic could not resolve, and they clearly flashed it with another version software that makes the TC kick in MUCH more than before. We get some snow here... it's like all the power pulls off when it detects wheel spen, not too safe when you are pulling into oncoming traffic. I would love to change that, rather than turning off the TC when I drive it. If my better half or father drove it, they could wind up in a wreck if I didn't coach them on how to disable the TC.
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      10-04-2014, 01:29 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
I'm now an expert at re-synching my DME with the CAS. lol

I need to come up with a better way to flash the DME (other than OBD, which is slowwwwww). I'm thinking I can put in a switch to turn on the DME by itself. the problem is when you put the DME into boot mode, the other modules freak out. if I can leave everything else turned off (like the CAS) it would be much faster. it takes about 1 minute to flash the DME, but then it takes me 10 minutes screwing around with INPA to get the CAS to talk to it again. Also with the DME in boot mode and the ignition on, it runs the fuel pump continuously which drains my battery.

If I want to go to a dyno and do some tuning, I'll want to be much closer to 1 minute per change (which hurts when you're paying $150/hr). it's too bad it's not like an aftermarket DME where it takes .1 seconds to flash a map, but I knew that when I signed up.
Isn't there another port other than the OBD that allows you to access all the modules including the DME? I remember a tech telling me this because updating the whole car could never get done through the OBD.
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      10-04-2014, 03:27 PM   #96
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Maybe but BDM is superior either way. I dont think you can flash the DME through a hidden port.

The only reason obd is slow is because BMW throttled it as an anti tuning measure.
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      10-06-2014, 03:19 AM   #97
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nice work
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      10-07-2014, 10:14 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90pilot View Post
Some pretty cool stuff! I have a small request if you can entertain it. I'm not sure if anyone else has experienced this, but the car has a "soft lift" feature that is actually quite irritating. Basically the car will close the throttle slowly to smooth out the driver input. While there's a turning force, the effect is amplified. I actually find it dangerous. If the car is understeering and I lift to get the front to grip, it won't let me. In fact it keeps accelerating sometimes. If you can find that table, that alone would make my day.
Me and some others have experienced this first hand! Those who have it have had an N51 though. Basically lift off the throttle, and it keeps going lol. Very unsafe, especially on track.
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      10-08-2014, 09:20 AM   #99
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figured out if I plug in the BDM cable before booting it, the CAS doesn't freak out and I don't have to reset everything.

I haven't figured out how to make an error code go away. I'm thinking the only way is to zero out the entire line. I really want to make 2F0D disappear, just on principle..
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      10-11-2014, 02:00 PM   #100
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I've got the flashes down. no having to reset the CAS. I just wish the FP didn't run the entire time. haven't had battery issues, it's more being worried about a fire.. lol

I was mistaken about the torque factor. Somehow it didn't work like I thought it did. in fact, changing the value from 400nm even to 402nm will cause the DME to freak out.

I did successfully set the VSS limit to 0 and it works fine without errors. I don't know if the speed limit is removed this way and I'm not going to test it any time soon.

Been playing with VANOS a bit. I can't do much without dyno feedback, but knowing a little bit about how cam timing & overlap works, I think there are gains to be had here. Next will be playing with DISA, the Evolve graphs I've seen have smoothed out the transitions between stages, so I think that can be improved as well.

Hoping to hit a dyno soon, I want to test filters (K&N vs stock, charcoal delete) and a couple things with VANOS to get an idea of where to take it. My goal is to see how far I can go with all stock hardware. I'm trying really hard not to buy a set of SS headers immediately, lol.
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      10-11-2014, 07:33 PM   #101
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Hass, can the DISA activation points be changed?
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      10-11-2014, 07:41 PM   #102
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yes, there are a number of thresholds and hysteresis values, based on load/RPM. I need to compile them all and then see if I can figure out how they work.
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      10-11-2014, 07:49 PM   #103
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yes, there are a number of thresholds and hysteresis values, based on load/RPM. I need to compile them all and then see if I can figure out how they work.
Awesome.
Any luck on finding a 328 ecu?
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      10-11-2014, 10:44 PM   #104
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I haven't looked. A 328i dump would be a good start though.
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      10-31-2014, 12:50 PM   #105
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Some progress.. having a full dump of the 325i is pretty helpful, especially since all the addresses line up. I'm working on a complete comparison. Much of it is actually the same, of course there are vanos/valvetronic, fuel and slight ignition changes.

Here's a comparison of what I've mapped out so far. I didn't post any ignition because it's almost exactly the same except for the last RPM column - the 325i actually has slightly more advance at full load. the rest of the ignition maps are identical.

Black is the 330i, Green is the 325i:

Large difference in full load lambda targets:


Large difference in full load VANOS (higher numbers on intake are retarded)


Part load Intake VANOS:


Supposedly exhaust is used mostly for emissions, that appears to be the case. I don't think that means it's not possible to use it for power; intake/exhaust overlap is certainly important.


Part Load Exhaust VANOS:


Part load Valvetronic map is really different, obviously:


Full load Valvetronic is gimped on the 325i:


This map is interesting to me. It appears to reduce power past certain RPM/Torque thresholds. I'm thinking possibly this is related to the rev limiter. The comparison is misleading - the values in the 325i are unchanged, but the torque axis maxes out at 250nm vs 300nm, and the RPM axis ends 300rpm sooner. The effect is the "power reduction" happens earlier on the 325i. There's a similar map with Coolant temp vs Oil temp that severely reduces power when the engine is overheated.


Not sure if it does what it appears to but it would be easy enough to test!

Hopefully I'll have time to hit up a dyno in November to get a baseline, and maybe test some stuff. What I haven't posted are the differences in 3-stage manifold tuning, the maps and code are all there for the 325i, but everything is de-tuned. I'll post that stuff when I get it all mapped out, but if you just plug a 3 stage into the 325i (and 328i) it definitely doesn't have the same effect as the 330i.

Having the comparison also helps me see what's worth spending time on when tuning. Definitely fuel, VANOS, and Valvetronic. Ignition looks to be pretty minimal for possible gains, the only things I can think of are playing with knock control to make it less sensitive/overpenalizing.

does anyone have a 328i dump? I'd love to compare it, even if everything is totally different..
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      10-31-2014, 04:34 PM   #106
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wow hass, thank you so much for these, its clear bmw crippled the non 330 cars and by a lot.
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      10-31-2014, 04:40 PM   #107
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how applicable is this to the MSV80 for X5 X3 n52 3.0si maps for 3stage manifold vs say the 328i n52 or n51 maps
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      10-31-2014, 06:12 PM   #108
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how applicable is this to the MSV80 for X5 X3 n52 3.0si maps for 3stage manifold vs say the 328i n52 or n51 maps
He doesn't have the file to compare it to.
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      10-31-2014, 08:43 PM   #109
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Yeah, i need msv80 dumps for comparison. I don't know if anything is the same, its a totally different architechture.

Might be possible to extract it from the *.0da, but since i don't have a 328i its a low priority. I'd be happy to look if anyone wants to send me one.
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      10-31-2014, 09:34 PM   #110
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Yeah, i need msv80 dumps for comparison. I don't know if anything is the same, its a totally different architechture.

Might be possible to extract it from the *.0da, but since i don't have a 328i its a low priority. I'd be happy to look if anyone wants to send me one.
How? I have my stock file I loaded off for OE when I got my tune.
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