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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > +1mm Modified Intake Lift Valvetronic Supports- 'MILVs' N52



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      02-14-2017, 05:27 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
I have the DCAN cable, I can probably find a working version of the WINKFP. You couldn't grab the damos from from ____ ECU when you read it?
Damos is a factory list of maps/parameters for each DME. They are specific to the software version being used - the newest Damos for MSV70 is from like 2004, and there isn't one (that is publically available) for MSV80. But, I have methods to deal with that.

Hopefully Pheno can work out the OBD read part. There is still some missing infrastructure, but the pieces are starting to fall into place; the days of needing a proprietary $500 cable to flash are numbered.
Remember when we hated winfkp and ODB flashing. LOL
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      02-14-2017, 05:48 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Hopefully Pheno can work out the OBD read part. There is still some missing infrastructure, but the pieces are starting to fall into place; the days of needing a proprietary $500 cable to flash are numbered.
I think we might have it working now. Have to do some more testing and see what speed is like. Full dump will take forever no matter what, but calibration shouldn't be too bad. People with D-CAN cars need to update the firmware on those ATMEGA chips though in order to dump, and that'll probably be a roadblock for the less technically inclined folks. And honestly, that firmware works so much better that I would recommend anyone who's doing flashing to update to that firmware.

But yeah, future is looking quite good. I must have tested the RSA delete at least 50 times, and it worked perfectly. We've got 3-stage tunes for all the x28 variants (about as close to factory as you can get). And as you know, the only brick I had was because I fucked up the boot sector, and I recovered from that lol.
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      02-14-2017, 06:53 PM   #91
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He's ALIVE!
Lol - haven't been up to speed on car stuff recently but am lurking from a distance. Thanks for the heads-up!
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      02-14-2017, 07:55 PM   #92
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Remember when we hated winfkp and ODB flashing. LOL
yes.. until I realized it was even faster than BDM.
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      02-15-2017, 12:11 PM   #93
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Have you tested these in the motor yet?
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      02-15-2017, 06:36 PM   #94
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In the motor on the stand, not a running motor in car. That is the next step.
I am buying a 'new to me' commuter '07 328xi E90 81k auto this friday. My son and his 328 doesn't want to be the first.

I should do a 'reward' for the first to test in a running engine and dyno.
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      02-15-2017, 06:47 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by CobraMarty View Post
In the motor on the stand, not a running motor in car. That is the next step.
I am buying a 'new to me' commuter '07 328xi E90 81k auto this friday. My son and his 328 doesn't want to be the first.

I should do a 'reward' for the first to test in a running engine and dyno.
Where does the secondary rocker toe sit wrt to the end of the primary rocker at max lift? Can we see a picture of this versus stock, please?
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      02-16-2017, 05:58 AM   #96
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Where does the secondary rocker toe sit wrt to the end of the primary rocker at max lift? Can we see a picture of this versus stock, please?
No actual pic but imagine the 'support' sitting slightly lower than the stock location and everything moves down slightly. All the pivot/rocker wheels of the intermediate rocker are nearly in the same position and the foot on the primary rocker arm is in the same location, just pushed lower. In the picture, the intermediate rocker will be slightly lower at 80+% - WOT. The 'support' has a 'ramp' on the surface that the intermediate rocker roller rides on and pushes the intermediate rocker down at about 70%-WOT. It is that 'ramp' and the shape of the 'foot' that gives the ratio multiplication. This picture is at idle position, at WOT the eccentric cam pushes the intermediate top roller forward.
I hope that helps explain.


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      03-09-2017, 01:00 PM   #97
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Just a little feedback on the shims - I've been working with somebody who's installed these to get it set up. No issues with anything (runs fine, nothing blew up), except the limitations of valvetronic itself. It did pick up a bit of mid-range, but not a significant amount - for reasons I'll detail below.

I don't know if you measured the lift increase with the eccentric shaft at full stop - but the reality is, it doesn't really pass 172-173 degrees. I'm working on that, but even if I can make it move the max value to say 175 or 177 degrees, it's still going to be less of an increase if you were measuring 0.5mm at 180 degrees. It might be worth re-thinking the design a little bit.

Maybe it would be possible to target ~10.2-10.5mm at 175 degrees or something (although I haven't actually made the eccentric shaft move that far yet). I actually think even though BMW says the maximum lift is 9.9mm, in reality it doesn't go past 9.2-9.5mm. So that could be a 1mm increase (significant) over stock. With the current setup we saw some small gains at 0.2mm (my estimate), so I think there is potential with this - once we get it set up right.

I'm going to continue working on the eccentric shaft issue and see what I can max it out at. Interestingly, if you disconnect the valvetronic motor it will go into limp mode, which moves the eccentric shaft all the way to the 180 degree stop (the only time it ever does so). Otherwise, if you log the values I can pretty much guarantee it doesn't move past 173.
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      03-09-2017, 01:25 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Just a little feedback on the shims - I've been working with somebody who's installed these to get it set up. No issues with anything (runs fine, nothing blew up), except the limitations of valvetronic itself. It did pick up a bit of mid-range, but not a significant amount - for reasons I'll detail below.

I don't know if you measured the lift increase with the eccentric shaft at full stop - but the reality is, it doesn't really pass 172-173 degrees. I'm working on that, but even if I can make it move the max value to say 175 or 177 degrees, it's still going to be less of an increase if you were measuring 0.5mm at 180 degrees. It might be worth re-thinking the design a little bit.

Maybe it would be possible to target ~10.2-10.5mm at 175 degrees or something (although I haven't actually made the eccentric shaft move that far yet). I actually think even though BMW says the maximum lift is 9.9mm, in reality it doesn't go past 9.2-9.5mm. So that could be a 1mm increase (significant) over stock. With the current setup we saw some small gains at 0.2mm (my estimate), so I think there is potential with this - once we get it set up right.

I'm going to continue working on the eccentric shaft issue and see what I can max it out at. Interestingly, if you disconnect the valvetronic motor it will go into limp mode, which moves the eccentric shaft all the way to the 180 degree stop (the only time it ever does so). Otherwise, if you log the values I can pretty much guarantee it doesn't move past 173.
Good update,

If you remember, I unplugged my valvetronic motor and used an allen key to rotate the eccentric shaft motor / cam against the stops and recorded the values in INPA, 175.4 degrees was the recording I had at the physical stop.

I never did get a tune to go above 173 degrees.

The limp mode target is 180 degrees but it never achieves that value.
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      03-09-2017, 01:48 PM   #99
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I should try that.

If that is true, then 173 is really ~178?

That's the part I find so confusing.

I did get it to increase from 172 to ~172.9. lol.
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      03-09-2017, 02:08 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
I should try that.

If that is true, then 173 is really ~178?

That's the part I find so confusing.

I did get it to increase from 172 to ~172.9. lol.
What sort of signal is this before it gets converted to degrees?

If it's a voltage signal, like 5v for 0 and 0V for 180 then it would follow that limp mode would be no signal back from the sensor, indicating a break or failure.
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      03-09-2017, 05:18 PM   #101
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I don't think it's a voltage signal, I think it's bit-encoded.

but yeah it will go into limp mode if you disconnect the sensor (which will cause the motor to run until the 180 degree stop).
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      03-10-2017, 09:32 AM   #102
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Glad to hear- " No issues with anything (runs fine, nothing blew up)"

I tried to be very conservative and safe for this initial mod. I can make it more aggressive but I was afraid it might affect idle lift and idle quality. I also have another mod version I can add to the current mod to also gain a bit more.

Here are my measurements. The 'low' numbers are because the lifters are not pumped up.
The valve lift gain actually starts at about 140* Ecc Cam position, and there is even some mid range valve lift gain from 100-140* EC position

140* Ecc Cam position - stock 7.122mm valve lift - modified 7.366mm valve lift +0.244mm
150* Ecc Cam position - stock 7.569mm valve lift - modified 8.103mm valve lift +0.534mm
160* Ecc Cam position - stock 8.103mm valve lift - modified 8.611mm valve lift +0.508mm
170* Ecc Cam position - stock 8.560mm valve lift - modified 9.093mm valve lift +0.533mm
174* Ecc Cam position - stock 8.712mm valve lift - modified 9.347mm valve lift +0.635mm

Mid Range Ecc Cam position-
100* Ecc Cam position - stock 5.029mm valve lift - modified 5.156mm valve lift +0.127mm
110* Ecc Cam position - stock 5.663mm valve lift - modified 5.817mm valve lift +0.154mm
120* Ecc Cam position - stock 6.172mm valve lift - modified 6.426mm valve lift +0.254mm
130* Ecc Cam position - stock 6.655mm valve lift - modified 6.910mm valve lift +0.255mm

Last edited by CobraMarty; 03-10-2017 at 09:47 AM.
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      03-10-2017, 09:37 AM   #103
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IDK if this graph posted from the first page-
You can see that the increase is not just at max Ecc Cam position.

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      03-10-2017, 10:10 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
I should try that.

If that is true, then 173 is really ~178?

That's the part I find so confusing.

I did get it to increase from 172 to ~172.9. lol.
So you are thinking there is an offset between actual eccentric cam position and reported position?

Have you measured the physical rotation limit on the cam?
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      03-10-2017, 10:13 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraMarty View Post
Glad to hear- " No issues with anything (runs fine, nothing blew up)"

I tried to be very conservative and safe for this initial mod. I can make it more aggressive but I was afraid it might affect idle lift and idle quality. I also have another mod version I can add to the current mod to also gain a bit more.

Here are my measurements. The 'low' numbers are because the lifters are not pumped up.
The valve lift gain actually starts at about 140* Ecc Cam position, and there is even some mid range valve lift gain from 100-140* EC position

140* Ecc Cam position - stock 7.122mm valve lift - modified 7.366mm valve lift +0.244mm
150* Ecc Cam position - stock 7.569mm valve lift - modified 8.103mm valve lift +0.534mm
160* Ecc Cam position - stock 8.103mm valve lift - modified 8.611mm valve lift +0.508mm
170* Ecc Cam position - stock 8.560mm valve lift - modified 9.093mm valve lift +0.533mm
174* Ecc Cam position - stock 8.712mm valve lift - modified 9.347mm valve lift +0.635mm

Mid Range Ecc Cam position-
100* Ecc Cam position - stock 5.029mm valve lift - modified 5.156mm valve lift +0.127mm
110* Ecc Cam position - stock 5.663mm valve lift - modified 5.817mm valve lift +0.154mm
120* Ecc Cam position - stock 6.172mm valve lift - modified 6.426mm valve lift +0.254mm
130* Ecc Cam position - stock 6.655mm valve lift - modified 6.910mm valve lift +0.255mm
Thanks that's helpful. Are you measuring the Eccentric shaft position with your own methods, or are you reading the value out of a DME?
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      03-10-2017, 10:19 AM   #106
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Quote:
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Thanks that's helpful. Are you measuring the Eccentric shaft position with your own methods, or are you reading the value out of a DME?
On my engine on the stand, I put a digital angle finder on the end of the EC. Zero'd it at closed/resting position on the stop and verified it at maximum rotation on the stop. I then turned the EC motor to get a angle reading at every 10* and measured the actual valve lift.
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      03-10-2017, 10:22 AM   #107
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I hit the stop at 174*, maybe 176* max if I force it, but does not go to 180*. Now that is with my digital angle meter attached to the end of the Ecc Cam. When I set it and calibrate it, the meter seems to be right and accurate.

I get no reliable valve lift values under 50* which I believe is due to lifter collapse.
This is some of my original findings.
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      03-10-2017, 10:49 AM   #108
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I still want these, but shit came up (New O2 sensors, and a new clutch and flywheel) so maybe I can wait for the second revision...if you plan on making one.

Also trying to source an OFT, so I can have Hass update my file.
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      03-10-2017, 02:10 PM   #109
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You don't need an OFT anymore. All you need is a ~$35 cable (not sure what BimmerGeeks is going to sell them for, but it has updated firmware) a Windows laptop, and WinKFP.
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      03-10-2017, 02:19 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
You don't need an OFT anymore. All you need is a ~$35 cable (not sure what BimmerGeeks is going to sell them for, but it has updated firmware) a Windows laptop, and WinKFP.
I have a Cable I use, I have a laptop with windows 10 - and Winkfp..well, I'm not sure. Can you modify my DISA with that?

If I need a new one, BimmerGeeks! I will buy it.
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