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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Something Corny is smelling at Bimmer Performance Center...



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      05-19-2018, 10:32 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle1oh7 View Post
Bob, so what are we looking at as far as deposits building up by running E85/E50?
it's gonna be the opposite. Ethanol is so gnarly it will clean everything, and then eat through aluminum.

I still don't think there's going to be a big increase in top end.



I mean, if a 13:1 motor doesn't see increases....
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      05-19-2018, 02:56 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by nsjames View Post
it's gonna be the opposite. Ethanol is so gnarly it will clean everything, and then eat through aluminum.

I still don't think there's going to be a big increase in top end.



I mean, if a 13:1 motor doesn't see increases....
Itís more than compression ratio.
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      05-19-2018, 02:56 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Love The Drive View Post
Awesome, I was secretly hoping they were 17's ahaha. They look great . What are the widths? Square/staggered? Thanks in advance.
17 x 9 ET30
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      05-20-2018, 11:26 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Eagle1oh7 View Post
You're running a blend on an NA motor?
Yes, I put a nitrous kit on last summer to play around with. I worked about 50 miles away, certain points allow you to open up for a bit, I'm working on what works. Anyway, the higher octane worked for fueling so it was a win, but when I wasn't running it it was still in the car, no misfires, no codes, just the dip with the 3stage. My car seems to run better with a little more e than with others may experience. I've done reading about its properties, besides a meth blend, and race fuel, this would work just like any of those. These engines are so limited with tuneing that unless your able to run a cam, run more timing, to run more fuel, the power will be limited.
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      05-20-2018, 01:14 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Itís more than compression ratio.
I don't see how in an otherwise stock motor.

it's an interesting experiment, but I just don't see the gains being worth the dismal fuel economy.
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      05-20-2018, 01:36 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by JuniorB View Post
Yes, I put a nitrous kit on last summer to play around with. I worked about 50 miles away, certain points allow you to open up for a bit, I'm working on what works. Anyway, the higher octane worked for fueling so it was a win, but when I wasn't running it it was still in the car, no misfires, no codes, just the dip with the 3stage. My car seems to run better with a little more e than with others may experience. I've done reading about its properties, besides a meth blend, and race fuel, this would work just like any of those. These engines are so limited with tuneing that unless your able to run a cam, run more timing, to run more fuel, the power will be limited.
Why aren't you running Hass's free 530i tune? It's better than running a 525i on the 3 stage manifold with no programing - save for the added torque, you're probably slower

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Originally Posted by nsjames View Post
I don't see how in an otherwise stock motor.

it's an interesting experiment, but I just don't see the gains being worth the dismal fuel economy.
Because things like RPM, combustion camber size/shape and camshaft all have an impact on ignition timing as well.
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      05-20-2018, 02:15 PM   #51
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There is some pick in the lower rpm, not optimal. I was waiting for his to launch,and may still inquire about it. I'm planning to pull the engine in place of a n54.
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      05-20-2018, 02:22 PM   #52
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There is some pick in the lower rpm, not optimal. I was waiting for his to launch,and may still inquire about it. I'm planning to pull the engine in place of a n54.
it's already out , and it's free.
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      05-20-2018, 02:55 PM   #53
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That's awesome, I have the BG cable, but haven't been able to dl the software. Is this needed for the tune to be sent?
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      05-20-2018, 03:10 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Because things like RPM, combustion camber size/shape and camshaft all have an impact on ignition timing as well.
so short of changing the cams for ones with more duration and changing the heads that are optimized to burn gasoline, how do you expect big gains in horsepower?
let's not forget the fuel system. injectors and pump to net what, maybe a 10% increase over something already tuned?
again, it's an interesting experiment, but I can't see the outcome being worth the hassle. Maybe it picks up 10 ft lbs in the midrange because you can crank the timing another 10 degrees, but without different valves and cams it's not going to be groundbreaking, and then you're going to get a whopping 12 MPG on e85 because it's terrible.

literally the only reason e85 is good is because it's the cheapest octane per dollar you can get, but a 10.5 motor doesn't need 110 octane to achieve it's best numbers.

I guess I'm just used to hi compression methanol motors that make 800+ HP. If you're not increasing the compression via boost or just having a high static compression ratio I just dn't see the major advantages to corn juice.
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      05-21-2018, 09:04 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraMarty View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob@BPC View Post
Currently we are testing drivability and getting part throttle maps dialed in. WOT pulls on the dyno are showing power increase and yes, if you have a blower car, you'll seen gains in the 25 - 40rwhp range
That right there!!

Now if you can also do an inline ethanol sensor that would be fantastic.
Is this doable, Bob?
As easy as it is to flip between tunes, it does get time consuming-
On top of that, some user error forces me to have to redo the process....
Sadly, a regular occurrence lol...
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      05-21-2018, 09:27 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorB View Post
That's awesome, I have the BG cable, but haven't been able to dl the software. Is this needed for the tune to be sent?
Yes
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      05-21-2018, 09:36 AM   #57
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Bob@BPC and Phil@BPC Have you guys tried playing with the spark plugs when you run E85?

We are anxious to see results!
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      05-29-2018, 05:50 PM   #58
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What 'kit' from MOTIV would we be looking at for the endeavor of flex fuel?
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      05-29-2018, 07:47 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Bob@BPC and Phil@BPC

We are anxious to see results!
bump
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      05-30-2018, 01:18 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W37V View Post
bump
sorry for the delay, we've been slammed on the dyno these past few weeks. I'll try and get it back on the dyno later on this week
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      06-05-2018, 09:46 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noir View Post
What 'kit' from MOTIV would we be looking at for the endeavor of flex fuel?
https://www.motivmotorsport.com/coll...el-for-the-n54

https://www.motivmotorsport.com/prod...el-for-mhd-bmw

E85 is great if you can readily fill up with it and don't mind the MPG hit.
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom
FYI - I don't drive hard at all. So I'm not interested in more clamping force when I won't use it. Even on my car, I take it easy. It's just too loud to be enjoyable.
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      06-05-2018, 10:28 AM   #62
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Maybe I'm just dense...
Are we looking primarily at the ECS on that page?
Ye, I wouldn't mind doing it up with e85!
Biggest thing for me and the ECS is when I'm back home in Texas. Living fairly far from everything and having the choice is so key. And sometimes e85 is cheaper than normal 87 up here in Virginia Beach
Might be breaking over what I pay now, but I can't imagine it being terrible.
With all that being said, if this can't be an implementation, I dunno about going through with it-
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      06-05-2018, 10:44 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noir View Post
Maybe I'm just dense...
Are we looking primarily at the ECS on that page?
Ye, I wouldn't mind doing it up with e85!
Biggest thing for me and the ECS is when I'm back home in Texas. Living fairly far from everything and having the choice is so key. And sometimes e85 is cheaper than normal 87 up here in Virginia Beach
Might be breaking over what I pay now, but I can't imagine it being terrible.
With all that being said, if this can't be an implementation, I dunno about going through with it-
You would need all three from my understanding. You have to get the input from the sensor back to the ecu/dme. The Flex Fuel box takes the sensor data and converts it to an output the dme can interpret. You then need the custom tune which modifies a number of the tables inside the dme etc. so it all works correctly. At least that is my understanding on the n54. Don't see why it would be any different on the N52.
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom
FYI - I don't drive hard at all. So I'm not interested in more clamping force when I won't use it. Even on my car, I take it easy. It's just too loud to be enjoyable.
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      06-05-2018, 10:45 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noir View Post
Maybe I'm just dense...
Are we looking primarily at the ECS on that page?
Ye, I wouldn't mind doing it up with e85!
Biggest thing for me and the ECS is when I'm back home in Texas. Living fairly far from everything and having the choice is so key. And sometimes e85 is cheaper than normal 87 up here in Virginia Beach
Might be breaking over what I pay now, but I can't imagine it being terrible.
With all that being said, if this can't be an implementation, I dunno about going through with it-
You would need all three from my understanding. You have to get the input from the sensor back to the ecu/dme. The Flex Fuel box takes the sensor data and converts it to an output the dme can interpret. You then need the custom tune which modifies a number of the tables inside the dme etc. so it all works correctly. At least that is my understanding on the n54. Don't see why it would be any different on the N52.
Right on... Thanks for clearing it up for me!
I'm astounded I manage to tie my own shoes.
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      07-11-2018, 05:05 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Phil@BPC View Post
And its exactly what you think....


The wizard (Bob) is cooking up a E85 tune for N52's. Stay tuned as I will be updating this thread with graphs and dyno numbers




awesome!!!!
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      07-11-2018, 05:10 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob@BPC View Post
Currently we are testing drivability and getting part throttle maps dialed in. WOT pulls on the dyno are showing power increase and yes, if you have a blower car, you'll seen gains in the 25 - 40rwhp range On the n51, I dont have a test car, but once Im done with the n52 testing I'll make a post to see if anyone wants to beta test remotely.

They are 17s btw
i do!
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