[Rustler]

I’m trying to put together a reasonable game plan for diagnosing some vibration I’m getting at speed and under heavy braking. I know these issues can be tough to diagnose, but this is driving me crazy and I’d really appreciate your thoughts on what you think the causes might be, in order of likelihood.

Car: 2010 E90 335i, 17,500 miles, currently has Pirelli Sottozero 240 snow tires mounted on Rial Salerno wheels, no clearly visible bends, no spacers, no centering rings (tire rack insists that the wheels are hubcentric and do not need centering rings), wheels/tires were found to be in balance by my local garage (but NOT roadforce balanced), only brake work that’s been done is changing the brake fluid, I’ve checked tire pressure recently and it’s right on.

Symptoms: Started with a slight shimmy/vibration/shudder at highway speeds (55-75 mph), doesn’t seem to get worse at higher speeds, the steering wheel vibrates slightly, and the whole car does a little bit as well, it tracks completely straight.

Very recently it has started to vibrate more significantly under heavy (although still reasonable for public road driving) braking. The vibration under braking is felt mostly in the steering wheel, and not so much in the brake pedal, it happens at most any speed under heavy braking.

My current game plan: After searching and reading posts here, I’ve come up with the following:

1. Roadforce balance all 4 wheels (this seems like the most obvious first step for the highway vibration, but would it cause added vibration under braking, especially at lower speads?)

2. Check control arm bushings for premature wear, or perhaps even bent control arms (I understand the bushings are a common weak spot, and often causes vibration under braking)

3. “hot spots” on rotors/discs, if so, repair or replace? (there have been many emphatic posts that these rotors do not warp, but can get some sort of build up that causes vibration on braking)

4. Alignment

If all that fails, I’m out of ideas. I appreciate your feedback.

[ExpensiveTaste]

3. Really easy...go on the highway and do a 80 to 30 brake just hard enough that you don't engage ABS but definitely don't stop...do it 3 times.
4. Alignment is highly unlikely to cause a vibration unless you are VERY off...I mean like the car is uncontrollable on the highway...

[Rustler]

If there are "hot spots" on the rotors, could that cause vibration when cruising without my foot on the brake?

[ExpensiveTaste]

Originally Posted by Rustler

If there are "hot spots" on the rotors, could that cause vibration when cruising without my foot on the brake?

Nope, it sounds like a wheel balancing issue. Some shops suck at balancing tires. Especially when the hub hole isn't machined. They get lazy and don't use the finger attachment.

[Rustler]

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

Nope, it sounds like a wheel balancing issue. Some shops suck at balancing tires. Especially when the hub hole isn't machined. They get lazy and don't use the finger attachment.

Thanks for the input. Is it fair to say that you think the vibration at highway speed is a wheel balance issue, but the vibration under braking is due to buildup on the rotors that can be worn off by repeated heavy braking?

I don't love the idea of repeated emergency stops on the highway. Can a shop take of that if it is indeed the issue?

Any thoughts on my control arm bushing suspicion?

[ExpensiveTaste]

Originally Posted by Rustler

Thanks for the input. Is it fair to say that you think the vibration at highway speed is a wheel balance issue, but the vibration under braking is due to buildup on the rotors that can be worn off by repeated heavy braking?

I don't love the idea of repeated emergency stops on the highway. Can a shop take of that if it is indeed the issue?

Any thoughts on my control arm bushing suspicion?

Ya, it could be the control arm bushing towards the rear of the front, too. Rotors can be "cut" but most places these days just buy new ones. Find a shop with a lathe. I forgot to add. Another rare possiblity is a tire that has separated belts.

[Kevinbmw335]

Warped rotors?

[Thumperx]

Your statement of vibration during braking is a sign of warped rotor and/or worn out front suspension bushings. If you mentioned "I'm getting vibration during 'at speed'", then this would show tire/wheel needs balancing. (may be all three)

Have the rotors checked properly by a technician. This constant shimmy may have prematurely worn out the bushing too. But your tech will give proper guidance from here. More than likely, front rotors need to be replaced.

I've had a wheel balance weight fall off the front right once, so have your wheels checked -just in case.

Road Force Balancing is a great and nice tool, but not essential. If you got the time and bucks, then great go for it.

[Rustler]

Originally Posted by Thumperx

Your statement of vibration during braking is a sign of warped rotor and/or worn out front suspension bushings. If you mentioned "I'm getting vibration during 'at speed'", then this would show tire/wheel needs balancing. (may be all three)

Have the rotors checked properly by a technician. This constant shimmy may have prematurely worn out the bushing too. But your tech will give proper guidance from here. More than likely, front rotors need to be replaced.

I've had a wheel balance weight fall off the front right once, so have your wheels checked -just in case.

Road Force Balancing is a great and nice tool, but not essential. If you got the time and bucks, then great go for it.

I'm getting vibration both at speed (no braking) and under heavy braking (especially at highway speed, and to a lesser extent at lower speeds like 30-40 mph). Perhaps there are multiple issues at play here.

I'm about to switch out my winter wheels for my summer set, so I think I'll start with having the summer set balanced to eliminate (or confirm, as the case may be) that variable.

There are some posts where people are emphatic that these rotors don't actually warp, but that buildup or hot spots can cause vibration. Do you have any input on that?

Car is still under warranty, if it is the rotors or bushing, anyone have any luck having these items replaced under the warranty (premature failure) or maintenance plan?

[Thumperx]

Originally Posted by Rustler

There are some posts where people are emphatic that these rotors don't actually warp, but that buildup or hot spots can cause vibration. Do you have any input on that?

Hmm "emphatic" is a strong term that infers under any situation these rotors will "never" warp. In the real driving world, anything can happens and often it does. Unless whomever is making such claim is a BMW brake engineer, then that person would have more creditability. I am no engineer, but a lot (in the brake system) has to go wrong to become a serious issue.

When it comes to brakes or suspension (safety), it is best to have it checked out. You are under warranty, the rotors are free of charged if it needs to be replaced. Also possibility the control arms too. This will buy you a lot of peace of mind.

At 48K, I had my rotors and pads changed free of charge. Most of the members here can attest to that type of service coverage.

[Rustler]

Thanks for the input Thumperx.

I can't speak to the credentials of those who have posted that the rotors won't warp on these cars (to clarify, the posts I read suggested they won't warp under road going driving conditions, even aggressive driving, although it's perhaps possible in theory). I read several posts where someone suggested that their rotors had warped, and then someone else would chime in that in fact these rotors won't in fact warp, but can exhibit symptoms often misdiagnosed as warping, but in fact caused by a non-uniform surface on the rotor.

I don't have an opinion either way, just interested to see what the consensus is.

[ExpensiveTaste]

Originally Posted by Rustler

Thanks for the input Thumperx.

I can't speak to the credentials of those who have posted that the rotors won't warp on these cars (to clarify, the posts I read suggested they won't warp under road going driving conditions, even aggressive driving, although it's perhaps possible in theory). I read several posts where someone suggested that their rotors had warped, and then someone else would chime in that in fact these rotors won't in fact warp, but can exhibit symptoms often misdiagnosed as warping, but in fact caused by a non-uniform surface on the rotor.

I don't have an opinion either way, just interested to see what the consensus is.

Rotors don't warp. Not just these. They collect deposits of brake pad material on the rotor which gives that pulsating feeling.

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...nd-other-myths

[AWD Addict]

Do you feel it in your seat or in the steering wheel?

If it's in the seat, you have abent or unbalanced rear wheel.

If it's in the steering wheel, it's probably the same problem, but up front.

I'd be surprised if these rotors warp. They're pretty stout, but who knows.

[Rustler]

I just had my summer wheels (stock 193's with original BS's mounted) and there was absolutely no vibration at speed, however, there is still the vibration under braking. While the car was up on the lift I asked the tire shop to check the rotors and the bushings on the control arms. They did a cursory visual check and said things look fine, but I don't put a lot of stock in that.

I'm thinking that the winter wheels had a bend or were out of balance which caused the vibration at speed, but that either the bushings or the rotors are also causing the vibration under braking, and will need to be replaced.

Cars going in for it's annual low mileage oil change soon, I'll check back again if I have more info in case anyone out there is interested in how this resolves.

[asus389]

Check thrust arm bushings for play and/or leaking fluid. If the fluid has leaked there may also be a stain on the control arm near the bushing.

[Rustler]

Update: After swapping out the winter wheels the cruising vibration stopped so I’m assuming there is an issue with those wheels (they’re in storage, so I won’t be able to sort that out till next winter). However, the vibration on braking persisted. I just had the car in for the annual low mileage inspection and asked the dealer to source the issue. They called to tell me that the bushings and all suspension components were fine, but there was significant rust buildup on the inside of all four rotors, and that the rust had actually caused corrosion on the friction surface which was causing the vibration.

They also told me that rust isn’t covered under warranty and that for a mere $1700 plus tax I could have four new discs and pads and be free of the vibration. After expressing my surprise and displeasure that BMW wasn’t going to stand behind rotors that corroded after 2 years in service, I got a call back and they covered the whole service as a “good will repair.” Call it what you will, I’m pleased they are covering this repair.

I’ll drive it later tonight and update if the problem hasn’t been remedied.

[palomino0527]

i had the same problem and it annoyed me so i went to bmw dealership,im still under factory warranty. they checked it out and saided it was my rotors . they were warped. so they replaced both of my rotors and new brakes. so i think it might be the same situation for you. just take it in and let them know you feel vibration.

[Rustler]

Car is now braking as smooth as silk. My final conclusions are that a bent wheel caused the vibration at highway speed, and rust/corrosion on the rotors was causing vibration under braking.

[nt_loader]

I had a similar issue with vibration at aproximately 70mph. Took the car in for service, brakes checked out however they replaced one of the bushings as it was making noise. I also aligned the car which corrected a lot of the vibration but it still exists ever so slightly. I am told the vibration that is left is from un-even tire wear.

[chi2410]

I have the problem right now i don't feel any play on those tire, i going for balancing the wheel but this is my first BM, i realy want to avoid the dealer and crazy number so someone knows any shop do a good balance on those run flat wheel.

[chi2410]

some people has alredy told me about TOWN FAIR TIRE for balancing and aligment, they do a good job on BMW i don't know, what about this any advise?