[cobradac]

Still no details. BTW, any of you getting a 5,6,7 series or X5 or Z4 PROGMAN update you could hear your SA say "you just got CIP v28.00.00" and you would think "oh boy" I got the very latest. True, but no changes since v27 so big deal.

Will post SIB info on fixes when released.

[Gig103]

Cobra - I assume you are in BMW Service - I was wondering how these updates work? It looks like from this attachment they send you a CD ... how do you get it onto the car?

[dinkoh]

interesting. when will it come out?

[tizzletom]

Originally Posted by Gig103

Cobra - I assume you are in BMW Service - I was wondering how these updates work? It looks like from this attachment they send you a CD ... how do you get it onto the car?

I had the same question.

[sofla335i]

You load it with a computer BMW calls a SSS

[tizzletom]

Does it require them to go into your ecu? Since I have a procede.

[cobradac]

Originally Posted by sofla335i

You load it with a computer BMW calls a SSS

Correct, although currently a SSSr2 (Software Service System Rev2 - a PC by another name). An updated diagnostic and programming system is coming (third generation -3G) called ISIS and work in conjunction with ISID but not sure if rollout has even started. At least one system per BMW center as standard issue but dealer can purchase more and most do. Connect via special connectors to vehicle (another list of acronyms involved here too). Distribution of major PROGMAN updates is via CD, but minor updates are via online system (sometimes referred to as Centernet).

The v28 CD might be in dealer hands but the updated SIB with info on fixes has not hit TIS yet.

[cobradac]

Originally Posted by Gig103

Cobra - I assume you are in BMW Service - I was wondering how these updates work? It looks like from this attachment they send you a CD ... how do you get it onto the car?

Not a BMW employee but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn

See post #7 for partial answer. The update processing system is connected to vehicle after diagnostics are run on system to determine current version and ensure all modules (ECU, EGS, all the CCCs, M-ASK, and on and on - 25 or more modules) are working. If any are not teh repair must be made before programming can commence. Battery charger connected, windows down so tech can peak in without touching car - everything is done so the car will not be touched or joustled. It is possible that a specific module might not need updating (ECU or EGS come to mind) but they are still checked out.

For details on what modules are updated owners should ask that copies of the Measures Plan or Final report be provided to you when you turn car in so the SA is not surprised by such a request when you pick up car. Tells you the old PROGMAN version and the new version (via the Target Data Status data) and all the modules that got updated.

[baltik]

Dumb question - If I have a procede V2 installed (hypothetically speaking ofcourse) and no visible wires/vacuum line alterations as well as the bypass plug installed - could the dealer detect it? IE would there be any possible reason for them to physically access the ECU during an update/routine service?

[alo]

Originally Posted by cobradac

An updated diagnostic and programming system is coming (third generation -3G) called ISIS and work in conjunction with ISID but not sure if rollout has even started.

ISIS Rollout has been started in Europe. Although not for programming and diagnostic info yet, mostly technical info (TIS). Diagnostics will come in the first quarter of 2008, programming will follow with the new 7-series.

[asif163]

So those of us w/a E92 will see a difference from v27? I just picked up my car and I have v27....sorry for the noob question.

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by baltik

Dumb question - If I have a procede V2 installed (hypothetically speaking ofcourse) and no visible wires/vacuum line alterations as well as the bypass plug installed - could the dealer detect it? IE would there be any possible reason for them to physically access the ECU during an update/routine service?

Notice how he is ignoring your post like your not even there!!! Thats a damn shame!!

[dinkoh]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Notice how he is ignoring your post like your not even there!!! Thats a damn shame!!

It's a good question. The answer is probably not. But, if they did, you're SOL.

[SoYank]

Originally Posted by cobradac

An updated diagnostic and programming system is coming (third generation -3G) called ISIS...

Isis was the wife and sister of Osiris, Egyptian god of life, death, and fertility.

[BMW335PA]

Originally Posted by cobradac

Not a BMW employee but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn

See post #7 for partial answer. The update processing system is connected to vehicle after diagnostics are run on system to determine current version and ensure all modules (ECU, EGS, all the CCCs, M-ASK, and on and on - 25 or more modules) are working. If any are not teh repair must be made before programming can commence. Battery charger connected, windows down so tech can peak in without touching car - everything is done so the car will not be touched or joustled. It is possible that a specific module might not need updating (ECU or EGS come to mind) but they are still checked out.

I have a question for you. Within a week or two of having my car updated at my dealer, I ended up with a dead battery. Took it to a different local BMW dealer, and they had to replace my battery, chalked it up to being a bad battery. I might believe that, but then it happened a 2nd time. Thats right, I'm on my THIRD battery, took delivery of the car April 2006. So I called my main dealer to let them know it killed another battery, and he tells me,
'well gees theres nothing that we could be doing to kill them' and 'if it were something we did the battery would die right away, not a week or more later'
So I guess my question to you is, could reprogramming a car do this?
I noticed above you mention 'connect battery charger'.
My car is in the shop this week, bad control module, car is being reprogrammed, so I guess I'll find out soon enough if their shop is somehow inadvertently killing my batteries.
Just thought I'd run it past you.
Thanks

[cobradac]

Originally Posted by BMW325

I have a question for you. Within a week or two of having my car updated at my dealer, I ended up with a dead battery. Took it to a different local BMW dealer, and they had to replace my battery, chalked it up to being a bad battery. I might believe that, but then it happened a 2nd time. Thats right, I'm on my THIRD battery, took delivery of the car April 2006. So I called my main dealer to let them know it killed another battery, and he tells me,
'well gees theres nothing that we could be doing to kill them' and 'if it were something we did the battery would die right away, not a week or more later'
So I guess my question to you is, could reprogramming a car do this?
I noticed above you mention 'connect battery charger'.
My car is in the shop this week, bad control module, car is being reprogrammed, so I guess I'll find out soon enough if their shop is somehow inadvertently killing my batteries.
Just thought I'd run it past you.
Thanks

The bad control module could be the culprit.

Check this SIB
SI B 61 13 05
General Electrical Systems October 2007
Technical Service

This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI B61 13 05 dated October 2007.

designates changes to this revision

SUBJECT
Dead Battery - Energy Diagnosis Must be Performed


MODEL
E90, E91, E92, E93 (3 Series)

E60, E61 (5 Series)

E63, E64 (6 Series

E65, E66 (7 Series) from 3/2004 vehicle production

E70 (X5)


SITUATION
The electrical system of BMW vehicles has been subject to an ongoing development process over the last few years. This has led to increased demands being placed on the battery. This document covers important information for the dealer on how to handle "dead battery" complaints.

A dead battery can have various causes, most of which do not concern the battery itself. For this reason, replacing the battery is not usually a permanent repair. The cause of the dead battery must be analyzed in order to guarantee a proper repair.

Only use the latest diagnostic software when diagnosing dead battery complaints.

For this reason, "Energy Diagnosis" must be performed on all dead battery complaints. At the conclusion of the "Energy Diagnosis" test plan a diagnostic code will be generated.

This code must be included in the "Comments" section when submitting the warranty claim.Failure to quote the diagnostic code in the comments of the warranty claim may result in a delay in processing or refusal of the warranty claim.

In some cases the diagnostic code may not be included on the printed version of the diagnostic report. During the test plan when the diagnostic code is displayed, a print screen should be performed. This error will be corrected with DIS V52.

The two exceptions to the rule are:

Battery damage and leakage

Use of mobile service and battery replacement to restore customer drivability as soon as possible.

CAUSE
Refer to the "Procedure" section of this service information for details.

PROCEDURE
1. Fault analysis (Energy Diagnosis)

There are currently two paths to access the energy diagnosis test plan:

If a power management fault is stored, the DIS will select the energy diagnosis test plan automatically.

The test plan can also be selected manually: "Function selection>Complete vehicle>Body>Power supply>Energy diagnosis>Execute energy diagnosis>Test plan".

Note: The vehicle must have had a dead battery before Energy Diagnosis can be performed. Also, fault codes must not be deleted.

Once the test plan has finished, the results screen will be displayed. Always select [1] "Most Likely Cause" to view the possible causes of the dead battery on the vehicle.

Possible causes are:

Vehicle fault

Battery fault/alternator fault

Vehicle is not entering sleep mode

Vehicle is constantly awoken from sleep mode

Closed-circuit current is too high

Exhaustive battery charge (for information only).

Terminal 30g-f shutdown due to start capability limit (for information only).

Undetermined

Operating fault

If one of the causes shown below is displayed in "Most Likely Cause", this is not considered a factory defect and a warranty claim should not be submitted, even though a diagnostic code is generated at the end of the test plan.

Lights/hazard warning lamps left on for too long

Terminal R/15 left on for too long

Unfavorable driving profile (e.g., extremely short distances)

Vehicle parked for too long

A functional description of Energy Diagnosis and terminal control, together with troubleshooting information, can be found in the Energy Diagnosis test module.

2. Closed circuit current measurement

Refer to SI B61 08 00 Closed Circuit Current Measurement for the procedure and troubleshooting hints.

Refer to the DIS/GT1 functional description for further information. Use the following path to access this information:

All except E65 and E66: Complete vehicle>Drive>Voltage and current control>Voltage and current supply>Off-load current measurement.

E65 and E66: Complete vehicle>Body>Power supply>closed-circuit current performance>Closed-circuit current diagnosis.

3. Checking the charging system

Refer to SI B04 25 02 for information on how to test the charging system.

4. Checking the battery condition

Refer to SI B04 25 02 for information on how to test the battery.

Refer to the DIS/GT1 functional description for further information. Use the following path to access this information:

All except E65 and E66: Complete vehicle>Drive>Voltage and current control>Voltage and current generation

E65 and E66: Complete vehicle>Body>Power supply>Alternator

5. New battery registration

Registration of the new battery is necessary using the DIS/GT1 service function. If the new battery is not registered, erroneous messages (check control) may appear.

Use the following path the register the new battery: "Function selection>Service functions>Body>Power supply>Battery>Register battery change>Test plan". Follow the test plan instructions.

6. Recharging the battery

Refer to SI B04 11 02 for information on how to recharge the battery.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

Please refer to the latest KSD for all applicable labor operations and allowances.

If the appropriate labor operation is not contained in KSD, then a work time labor operation should be used.

Defect Code
61 21 07 59 00

[BMW335PA]

Thanks for the info Cobradac, I will def use this if my battery dies after this Progman update.
I got my car back yesterday, it was actually in the shop b/c all these malfunction lights were coming on. DBC, DTC, DSC, FTM, Start off Assist, Cruise Control...ALL malfuntioning. It would come on while driving, then clear itself the next time I would start the car, then come on again after driving alittle bit. Turns out it was a bad control module, SZL or SLZ, something like that, I have the paperwork at home, and they are mailing me a Measures Plan.

But heres the weird part, maybe just my imagination, but my headlights seem more shaky than b4 it went in. Which is really odd, cause they installed some sorta clip on a previous visit to help with shaky-ness. Would a Progman update affect the headlights at all?
Thanks again for your help.

[cobradac]

Originally Posted by BMW325

Thanks for the info Cobradac, I will def use this if my battery dies after this Progman update.
I got my car back yesterday, it was actually in the shop b/c all these malfunction lights were coming on. DBC, DTC, DSC, FTM, Start off Assist, Cruise Control...ALL malfuntioning. It would come on while driving, then clear itself the next time I would start the car, then come on again after driving alittle bit. Turns out it was a bad control module, SZL or SLZ, something like that, I have the paperwork at home, and they are mailing me a Measures Plan.

But heres the weird part, maybe just my imagination, but my headlights seem more shaky than b4 it went in. Which is really odd, cause they installed some sorta clip on a previous visit to help with shaky-ness. Would a Progman update affect the headlights at all?
Thanks again for your help.

Well PROGMAN should not (no certainty on my part) effect shakiness. It is electro-mechanical and I suspect not subject to software adjustment in the leveling (up and down) aspect. Now from side to side maybe so as it could be software control on speed versus steering angle (which BTW is a major function of the SZL). That's why the SZL issue lit off all those alarms. SZL is like a digital angle encoder. I'll be interested in the TDS number you get in the Measures Plan. Please post that number when you get it.

[BMW335PA]

As soon as I get the paperwork, I'll post it... then if you don't mind can tell me what it all means...lol cause I'm sure it will be Greek to me.
For instance, what is a digital angle encoder?
Thanks

[gobo335i]

I just received #28 in my car. Taken in a week ago (12-27-07) and it was updated because of hard starting. Turns out its the fuel pump. They replaced it with a rebuilt unit (WTF?) and it seems fine now. Car runs smooth and its a nice color interface with nice new graphics. Will update when I drive it more. Just got back from Hong Kong and have only 5 miles since receipt.

[cobradac]

Originally Posted by BMW325

As soon as I get the paperwork, I'll post it... then if you don't mind can tell me what it all means...lol cause I'm sure it will be Greek to me.
For instance, what is a digital angle encoder?
Thanks

Sorry about the digital angle encoder comment. It is simply a flat disk with a etched mask pattern on it similar to, but still different, than a bar code. This allows a sensor (usually optical) to decode position by means of which bits of information are sensed. I assume, but do not know for sure, that it has to be able to read all 360 degres of rotation (plus count how many times it has done this) , plus down to very small units of less than 1/10 of a degree. Probably done in hexidecimal or at the least, binary.

[turbotko]

Originally Posted by alo

ISIS Rollout has been started in Europe. Although not for programming and diagnostic info yet, mostly technical info (TIS). Diagnostics will come in the first quarter of 2008, programming will follow with the new 7-series.

We just got our switch in for ISIS, I can't wait to get the new system up and running. I've heard 1 tablet PC per 3 techs for the first year, then working toward each tech having their own tablet.

I just put 28.0 in my 335 and noticed no difference. Only other thing I know about 28.0 is you can't program X3's with it.