[bsd107]

Originally Posted by LionRampant

The music import from the glovebox USB port seems more dependent on the speed of the device you plug into it than internally limited. A USB hard drive allowed much quicker import of music than a slow USB flash drive. Note that you cannot play music directly from the port in the glovebox--the music must be imported into the Music Collection, which is a complete-drive import and can take some time.

--LR

Note that fast USB flash drives will be faster than even desktop hard drives, and especially faster than low-power-drawing portable USB hard drives.

Note that Windows Vista has the ReadyBoost feature specifically to take advantage of the fact that some flash devices are faster than even desktop hard drives.

USB flash drives that are rated for Windows ReadyBoost should give the fastest copying times to the new iDrive, although I'm still not convinced that it's not the iDrive that is the limitation in any of these cases...

[bsd107]

Originally Posted by LionRampant

If you have both iDrive and the iPod/USB adapter, you should receive two cables. --LR

A week or so ago I read a short review from a new owner of a 2009 E92 with the new iDrive. He was claiming that when playing the iPod through the BMW iPod/USB Y-adapter, the sound quality was inferior to the sound quality he got if he just used a USB-only cable instead. However, when using with a USB-only cable the responsiveness in navigating the music was much slower, so he had to decide between responsiveness and sound quality.

That is always one thing that bugged me about the iPod/USB Y-adapter - it depends on the headphone output of the iPod, and an analog headphone cable to carry the audio signal.

Playing directly through USB, with the iDrive doing the decoding of the ACC (or MP3) music file would obviously give better playback quality as the file would be digital all the way to the Logic7 amplifier in the trunk.

Playing through USB-only would not allow playing DRM files, however....

Have you done any sound quality comparisons between these two different methods of connecting an iPod/iPhone?

[bsd107]

To answer a question I had a few weeks ago:

My car with 6FL, 6NF and the new iDrive did NOT come with the iPod pouch integrated into the lid of the armrest.

[bsd107]

The new iDrive supposedly will play PCM files in WAV format. Has anyone tried doing this from DVD-ROM?

I'm not a big fan of audio lossy compression, which all of these devices use (or you have to play a lossless codec through a portable device's headphone socket), especially when the new iDrive does not support any lossless codecs.

There is some music that I would like to be able to play in CD Audio quality.

The CD Changer is way too expensive for what you get, so I abandoned that option.

One idea I had is to load up a DVD+R DL (~9GB) with uncompressed WAV files in linear PCM audio format - i.e. unconverted CD Audio. With the capacity of a single layer DVD-ROM being about 7x that of a CD-ROM, and a dual layer DVD-ROM being about 14x that of a CD-ROM, in theory you could have a single DVD-ROM disc that was the equivalent of having a multi-disc CD Changer in the trunk, and with full lossless audio quality.

Does anyone know if the new iDrive will play PCM WAV files from a DVD-ROM in the in-dash drive?

[LionRampant]

Originally Posted by Rotary Rasp

Does that mean that if you have 256kbs mp3s the system will copy them onto the hard drive at that same bit rate.

I thought the system used 128kbs, or is that for CD ripping only?

My experience is that files imported via the USB interface in the glovebox are preserved in terms of format and bitrate (the system does not downsample them to 128kbps WMA) and must be a playable codec and file format to play back from the Music collection. WMA, MP3, and AAC are supported. Apple Lossless, OggVorbis, FLAC and Windows Media Lossless do not seem to be supported. DRM-protected files are not supported for playback either directly from USB or after import to the internal Music Collection--only a separate device designed to play those protected files will work in that case.

When importing to the Music Collection from a CD-Audio source, the system needs to convert the CD Audio to a playable (and more compact) format. BMW has chosen to have all CD-Audio imports processed using 128kbps WMA format. Thus, I advise that quality-sensitive folk import music via the USB glovebox connection and rip their CDs on a home computer rather than having iDrive import them directly from CD.

--LR

[LionRampant]

Originally Posted by bsd107

Actually, this is surprising. According to the manual, the car stores the index for USB devices on it's hard drive, so that once the index is created it should already be available the next time you connect. The car will remember the index of up to four USB devices, and if you connect a fifth USB device, it will overwrite the first index, etc.

I think the above only applies to the 6FL connector - where you perhaps connecting to the glove-box USB part when you found it not caching the index?

The indexing behavior does not seem to be consistent. The usual behavior I have observed is that the index is retained as long as the device is connected, and removing the device and reconnecting it forces the index to be performed again. The last two times I have had the system index my 60Gb hard drive expecting this behavior, however, it has behaved more like what the manual describes. This caused an issue when I completely replaced the contents of the drive before departing for the weekend--the system retained the index information for the previous contents of the drive and seemed confused for a bit when I tried to access songs it had cached but were no longer on the drive.

I'm not certain why the indexing is not consistent, but it doesn't seem to be tied to a checksum or other means of telling when the drive contents have changed. I will continue to experiment with it and see if I can figure out what its deal is.

--LR

[LionRampant]

Originally Posted by rob72

Also, does the system now allow you to have more then one POI category displayed on the map simultaneously? Again the reason is because of speedcameras, right now I use the same icon for all types, and if I can have multiple POI categories displayed, each type of camera (50km, 70km, red light-only, etc) can have a different icon.

The new iDrive does allow multiple categories of POIs to be displayed on the live map with different icons. What is not clear, however, is that users can add POIs like speedcameras and have them added to the list of POI types that can be displayed. The list of POI categories which can be displayed live seems to be based on the iDrive internal database, and I am not certain that user-defined categories can be created for that purpose.

--LR

[LionRampant]

Originally Posted by bsd107

A week or so ago I read a short review from a new owner of a 2009 E92 with the new iDrive. He was claiming that when playing the iPod through the BMW iPod/USB Y-adapter, the sound quality was inferior to the sound quality he got if he just used a USB-only cable instead. However, when using with a USB-only cable the responsiveness in navigating the music was much slower, so he had to decide between responsiveness and sound quality.

That is always one thing that bugged me about the iPod/USB Y-adapter - it depends on the headphone output of the iPod, and an analog headphone cable to carry the audio signal.

Playing directly through USB, with the iDrive doing the decoding of the ACC (or MP3) music file would obviously give better playback quality as the file would be digital all the way to the Logic7 amplifier in the trunk.

Playing through USB-only would not allow playing DRM files, however....

Have you done any sound quality comparisons between these two different methods of connecting an iPod/iPhone?

At the distances involved, the quality difference between the D-A conversion being performed by the device or by the car's audio system is likely more about the relative qualities of those D-A converters and less about the fact that one happens six feet of (hopefully) high-quality cable before the other. Logic7's stereo expansion requires analog input to the surround algorithms, so there seems to be no tangible advantage to digital delivery of the signal to the Logic7 processor unless the distance is sufficient to degrade the analog signal or the D-A converter in the L7 system is much better than the alternative.

I would expect that the Logic7 D-A converter is superior to the one integrated into a portable music player, but I don't imagine that difference is likely to be perceptible to the average listener.

I cannot discern a quality difference between a 256kbps track played via USB and that same track played via an iPod, but then again, I'm far from a golden ear in that regard.

--LR

[LionRampant]

Originally Posted by bsd107

Note that fast USB flash drives will be faster than even desktop hard drives, and especially faster than low-power-drawing portable USB hard drives.

You are certainly correct. I don't have any fast USB-native flash devices--I would need to pick up a USB flash-memory reader and plug in one of my SDHC cards for a definitive import speed test.

--LR

[ShadeZeRO]

Damnit,

I'd trade in my E60 in a heartbeat if it didn't degrade to 50% value already =\

New iDrive is beautiful.

[JSpira]

Originally Posted by bsd107

That is always one thing that bugged me about the iPod/USB Y-adapter - it depends on the headphone output of the iPod, and an analog headphone cable to carry the audio signal.

But it doesn't use the headphone output.

[LionRampant]

Originally Posted by JSpira

But it doesn't use the headphone output.

Ah, I missed that assumption, which is one commonly made. The AUX connection is a stereo miniplug, and many folks who haven't seen the actual cable and connection of the 6FL might assume that a connection is made from the headphone jack to the AUX port using a miniplug-to-miniplug cable. This is not the case. When both USB and AUX connections are made, the car receives the audio from a cable which connects only to the dock connector on the iPod--there is no connection to the headphone jack. The dock connector-6FL cable provides a line-level stereo analog output to the car's system. This is actually considerably better for the integrity of the signal, as a connection to the amplified headphone jack may introduce distortions in later processing that the line-level signal will avoid.

--LR

[bsd107]

Originally Posted by LionRampant

Ah, I missed that assumption, which is one commonly made. The AUX connection is a stereo miniplug, and many folks who haven't seen the actual cable and connection of the 6FL might assume that a connection is made from the headphone jack to the AUX port using a miniplug-to-miniplug cable. This is not the case. When both USB and AUX connections are made, the car receives the audio from a cable which connects only to the dock connector on the iPod--there is no connection to the headphone jack.

--LR

What I meant was the used of the AUX miniplug on the car - disconnect that portion of the Y-cable and the sound ceases to play. You are right that it's not technically the "headphone" output from the iPod/iPhone, but it's analog, and my preference by far would be that the connection be digital - i.e. the song transmitted over USB. I do recognize that this would not be possible with DRM songs, however....

[Mantis64]

Originally Posted by bsd107

This makes no sense. It's an "apples & oranges" comparison.

- 6FL's USB port lets you play music directly from the device ONLY.

- The iDrive USB port only lets you import music to the car's hard drive.

- There is no "standard USB port", so I don't know what the dealer is talking about.

What would be true is that if you bring some new music to the car on a USB device and want to play it, if you only have iDrive you will have to first copy the music to the car's hard drive, which will take some time. With 6FL you can instead play from the USB device directly, avoiding the downloading step.

Thanks guys for the info.

At first the dealer didn't tell me about the USB port in the glove box (the "standard USB port"), so I thought I needed the 6FL option to be able to import music from a USB device.

Then he told me that the 6FL USB port could also be used to import music to the Idrive HD, and that it would be faster.
Which I know now is not true, but a good way to sell an extra option people may not need. So if you don't want to play music directly from a USB device, and are happy to import your music first you don't need the 6FL option.

Get the heated seats instead

[JSpira]

Originally Posted by bsd107

What I meant was the used of the AUX miniplug on the car - disconnect that portion of the Y-cable and the sound ceases to play. You are right that it's not technically the "headphone" output from the iPod/iPhone, but it's analog, and my preference by far would be that the connection be digital - i.e. the song transmitted over USB. I do recognize that this would not be possible with DRM songs, however....

From what everyone at Apple has told me, the iPod does not send its output digitally, regardless of whether you are using the USB connection or not.

[LEDZEP]

Top notch post!! Thanks much for making us all very jealous.

[bsd107]

Originally Posted by LionRampant

At the distances involved, the quality difference between the D-A conversion being performed by the device or by the car's audio system is likely more about the relative qualities of those D-A converters and less about the fact that one happens six feet of (hopefully) high-quality cable before the other. Logic7's stereo expansion requires analog input to the surround algorithms, so there seems to be no tangible advantage to digital delivery of the signal to the Logic7 processor unless the distance is sufficient to degrade the analog signal or the D-A converter in the L7 system is much better than the alternative.

I would expect that the Logic7 D-A converter is superior to the one integrated into a portable music player, but I don't imagine that difference is likely to be perceptible to the average listener.
--LR

Actually, an automobile is an extremely noisy environment in terms of electronic noise, so any time you can avoid analog transmission, the better.

I'm not sure that Logic7 requires analog input to the processor. The Logic7 keeps everything in digital between the unit in the dash and the amp in the trunk. It's only between the amp in the trunk and the speakers that the signal is analog. This isn't a surprise - my "Premium Audio" system in my previous 1999 E39 also did all the equalization and sound processing (including volume adjustment) in the digital realm, so if you used the optical output from the CD Changer the signal was digital all the way until the amp output to the speakers.

In any case, when connecting my iPhone 3G to 6FL (since the darn snap-in adapter for it and 6NF aren't available yet!!!!!), I often can clearly hear the difference in background noise when skipping between songs. I.e. it's like the signal output goes dead when the iPhone is searching, but when it starts playing the song I can sometimes hear the signal fire back up (i.e. low level background noise and some very slight hiss). It's not much, but it's there, and I don't want it.

I don't disagree with your statement that most folks won't tell the difference or care. But in this class of car it's entirely reasonable for me to demand the best (just as we do from the driving experience that the car delivers)....

[bsd107]

Originally Posted by JSpira

From what everyone at Apple has told me, the iPod does not send its output digitally, regardless of whether you are using the USB connection or not.

Yes, apparently this is for DRM policies - it won't let you transfer digitally out.....

[bsd107]

Originally Posted by bsd107

The new iDrive supposedly will play PCM files in WAV format. Has anyone tried doing this from DVD-ROM?

I'm not a big fan of audio lossy compression, which all of these devices use (or you have to play a lossless codec through a portable device's headphone socket), especially when the new iDrive does not support any lossless codecs.

There is some music that I would like to be able to play in CD Audio quality.

The CD Changer is way too expensive for what you get, so I abandoned that option.

One idea I had is to load up a DVD+R DL (~9GB) with uncompressed WAV files in linear PCM audio format - i.e. unconverted CD Audio. With the capacity of a single layer DVD-ROM being about 7x that of a CD-ROM, and a dual layer DVD-ROM being about 14x that of a CD-ROM, in theory you could have a single DVD-ROM disc that was the equivalent of having a multi-disc CD Changer in the trunk, and with full lossless audio quality.

Does anyone know if the new iDrive will play PCM WAV files from a DVD-ROM in the in-dash drive?

Well, to partially answer my own question, on my PC I took some music on an Audio CD, converted it to bunch of different MP3 formats, WMA formats, and WMA Pro formats. I also took a copy in WAV format (i.e. PCM in the original Audio CD specs). I also took an Apple Lossless Codec version (with MP4 extension) from iTunes.

I put these files on a DVD+R and put them in the in-dash CD/DVD Player.

The iDrive would play every MP3 format I threw at it, including 320kbps CBR (despite the manual warning that bitrates above 256kbps may not play all the time). VBR worked fine, too.

All of the standard WMA formats would play, except for WMA Lossless which would not play at all (DARN!). None of the WMA Pro formats would play.

The file in Apple Lossless Codec format (MP4 extension) displayed, but would not play.

The WAV file was not even recognized - it didn't show up in the iDrive menu at all. This file was in *.WAV filename format.

I REALLY want to be able to just put PCM files (i.e. uncompressed CD Audio) on a DVD+R and play them from the in-dash drive - this would give the best sound quality possible. Each DVD+R or DVD+R/DL disc would be like an entire CD Changer magazine, and with a couple of these discs in the car I could have a tremendously large audio library available without having to use lossy compression.

The manual for the car says that 6FL can play "MP3, WMA, WAV (PCM) and ACC, and playlists in the M3U format". I will next try putting a WAV PCM file on a USB stick and see if that will play through 6FL.

I was hoping that if WAV PCM would work with 6FL it'd also play through the CD/DVD Player, but so far no luck....

[AllydNYC]

Thanks for that write-up! Big!

[bsd107]

To follow up some more... Last night I took the same WAV file (PCM CD Audio format) that was not recognized when placed on a DVD+R DVD-ROM disc in the in-dash CD/DVD Player. I placed on a USB stick and put it in the 6FL USB port (i.e. in the armrest).

[Note that the test music file I have been using for all my format tests is a very high quality classical sound file, from a demo CD Audio disc.]

The WAV file played beatifully from there (i.e. through 6FL USB). It sounded fantastic - in my opinion it sounded significantly better than MP3 or WMA versions played through the CD/DVD Player. It also sounded better than playing from an iPhone connected to 6FL (using Apple Lossless Codec).

So, the 6FL USB port does indeed support WAV PCM format. Unfortunately, though, the in-dash CD/DVD Player does not. This sucks, in my opinion, especially since clearly the car is capable of playing this format successfully - just not from where I wanted it to play....

One other note: I'm not totally sold on the Logic7 Surround mode. Yes, it moves the soundstage around, but with high quality (i.e. high bitrate MP3/WMA or uncompressed PCM) I felt that the sound quality was noticeably better with the Logic7 Surround mode Off.
Interestingly, I threw in a DVD Video that had only a DD2.0 soundtrack, and with that disc I thought it sounded better with Logic7 Surround mode On. DD is significantly lossy compression and so maybe any sound degradation by the surround processor wasn't as significant, and with movies the soundstage imaging becomes more important - maybe this is why I preferred Logic7 Surround with this source.
I will continue experimenting with this, of course!

Also, I went out on a short drive last night to demo the car for some friends, and I could NOT get the iDrive to recognize the iPhone 3G music player section through 6FL. I unlocked the phone, disconnected and reconnected, etc., and could not get it to work. It had worked fine on previous days. Later that night I went back and tried it again, and this time it worked. Not sure why, but I assume it's iDrive bugs. I didn't reboot the phone or anything....

[E90M3CDFR]

For iDrive plus Nav, has anyone figured out how the "Trip Importing" function works through the USB connection? It looks like you should be ablet to import trips either through the MyInfo option or a USB flash drive, but there is no indication as to what format the information on the trips should be in to work.

Also, does anyone know if there is a way to be able to import a contacts list independently from a phone, ie. a CSV or other standard format, and have them saved into the drive itself?

Thanks