[delmarco]

Originally Posted by Pointbreak

These kinds of cars will be non existent after warranty with all the gadgets??

Exactly how I feel! Too many unnecessary electronic trinkets put in these cars for the sake of advertising them as the latest and greatest in tech.

These automobiles are now like iPhones. Manufacturers literally make and sell them with the expectations that you the buyer will be replacing your new BMW every 2-3 years.

Because after 50k miles out of warranty these cars will be an absolute money pit to own.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by delmarco

Exactly how I feel! Too many unnecessary electronic trinkets put in these cars for the sake of advertising them as the latest and greatest in tech.

These automobiles are now like iPhones. Manufacturers literally make and sell them with the expectations that you the buyer will be replacing your new BMW every 2-3 years.

Because after 50k miles out of warranty these cars will be an absolute money pit to own.

I agree with you. When you say phones....remember the days of "upgrades," for about $300? I was one of those who held off as long as possible. Well, now, with phones costing $799 and $1099 and $1299, before Thanksgiving there was an offer for iPhone Xs $249.99, so I did it. Boy do I hate this phone as I am an android person. All the apps are child-like, and some, don't even exist (like a wifi analyzer). But that price got me to go for it. For a few days, there was the same offer for the new S10. I should have waited. But the offers literally are out there for like 3 days then get worse. So cars are the same now, people do things they really didn't want to like above.

The lack of a stick is such a downer. And here I am accepting that sticks are gone, period. So I would consider one. But I'll never get rid of my 335i coupe. Why should I? It has almost no value today, carfax says like $5k lol and it's very mint too.

People find it hard to believe there is anything good about a manual. Well, with fleet trucks being about 100% automatics these days, guess what typical owner/operators get? 18 speed manuals! So either people who love sticks are nuts, or there's something to it.

[delmarco]

Since news of that got out I heard the used market sales for F30 320i/330i/340i manual transmission cars have skyrocketed in both demand and price.

Since it is for now the last BMW 3 series that you can buy with a stick shifter.

Originally Posted by John 070

I agree with you. When you say phones....remember the days of "upgrades," for about $300? I was one of those who held off as long as possible. Well, now, with phones costing $799 and $1099 and $1299, before Thanksgiving there was an offer for iPhone Xs $249.99, so I did it. Boy do I hate this phone as I am an android person. All the apps are child-like, and some, don't even exist (like a wifi analyzer). But that price got me to go for it. For a few days, there was the same offer for the new S10. I should have waited. But the offers literally are out there for like 3 days then get worse. So cars are the same now, people do things they really didn't want to like above.

The lack of a stick is such a downer. And here I am accepting that sticks are gone, period. So I would consider one. But I'll never get rid of my 335i coupe. Why should I? It has almost no value today, carfax says like $5k lol and it's very mint too.

People find it hard to believe there is anything good about a manual. Well, with fleet trucks being about 100% automatics these days, guess what typical owner/operators get? 18 speed manuals! So either people who love sticks are nuts, or there's something to it.

[Pointbreak]

Originally Posted by delmarco

Exactly how I feel! Too many unnecessary electronic trinkets put in these cars for the sake of advertising them as the latest and greatest in tech.

These automobiles are now like iPhones. Manufacturers literally make and sell them with the expectations that you the buyer will be replacing your new BMW every 2-3 years.

Because after 50k miles out of warranty these cars will be an absolute money pit to own.

lol yeah spot on, apple and them boys are screwing us bigtime and now the carmakers wants us to buy a new car every 2 years to keep up with the gadgets=) Im getting me an e92 again=)

[Efthreeoh]

This is why my car has so many miles on it, and why I paid $1,800 out of pocket to buy the car back after it was totaled with 350,000 miles on it. I can't find a better car than the E90. There is too much tech to make good fuel consumption numbers on the EPA test (but not in real world use) and too much tech inside the cabin I don't need. Both make newer cars less reliable.

I've actually driven across country several times just using a paper map! The 1st time in 1985!!!!! OMG how did I manage to do that!

[Pointbreak]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

This is why my car has so many miles on it, and why I paid $1,800 out of pocket to buy the car back after it was totaled with 350,000 miles on it. I can't find a better car than the E90. There is too much tech to make good fuel consumption numbers on the EPA test (but not in real world use) and too much tech inside the cabin I don't need. Both make newer cars less reliable.

I've actually driven across country several times just using a paper map! The 1st time in 1985!!!!! OMG how did I manage to do that!

lol thats Amazing, ure not gonna like it but I love the feeling of having spotify and switching songs on the Wheel, thats when cartech peaked for me! Anything beyond is useless=)

[SilverSlug]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

This is why my car has so many miles on it, and why I paid $1,800 out of pocket to buy the car back after it was totaled with 350,000 miles on it. I can't find a better car than the E90. There is too much tech to make good fuel consumption numbers on the EPA test (but not in real world use) and too much tech inside the cabin I don't need. Both make newer cars less reliable.

I've actually driven across country several times just using a paper map! The 1st time in 1985!!!!! OMG how did I manage to do that!

Driving across country with a paper map... Those were the days!

[SilverSlug]

Originally Posted by delmarco

Since news of that got out I heard the used market sales for F30 320i/330i/340i manual transmission cars have skyrocketed in both demand and price.

Since it is for now the last BMW 3 series that you can buy with a stick shifter.

Indeed. BMW broke my heart when they killed the manual trans in the big six engines for 2019.

Fingers crossed they feel a backlash and bring it back for the LCI; not holding my breath though.

[Jesda]

iOS is more memory and CPU efficient than Android. An iPhone 6 with 1GB runs as well as a newer mid level Android device with 3-4GB. Regardless, both Android and iOS are trash compared to Blackberry OS 10, but the best mobile platforms are never the most popular.

As for BMW, the audience is changing. They ditched driving enthusiasts long ago in favor of more lucrative luxury buyers. Oh well.

[F30lolz]

Originally Posted by Jesda

As for BMW, the audience is changing. They ditched driving enthusiasts long ago in favor of more lucrative luxury buyers. Oh well.

There was a time when every single BMW model could be had with a manual transmission. Those were the days.

[Pointbreak]

Originally Posted by F30lolz

There was a time when every single BMW model could be had with a manual transmission. Those were the days.

Money Money Money, no one does Charity work anymore, not even bmw for us manics

[TemjinX2]

In BMW's defense, thats what most new 3 series buyers want, they want tech and automatic. BMW doesn't care about what the second and third owner wants.

Tesla out sold Audi last year and are gunning for BMW and mercedes. BMW understands new luxury car buyers want tech with their cars, so thats the direction their heading.

Manuals will probably continue to decline to niche sports cars like M3/m4/m2 and 911/caymans.

From some of the interviews BMW stated the take rate for manuals on the M2 was around 40-50% versus the regular 3 series was less then 17%. They said the business case wasnt their to offer manual on a regular 3 series. Manufacturers have to pay to crash test the manuals separately from the autos at least in the US, so it adds a huge cost to get a manual certified.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

In BMW's defense, thats what most new 3 series buyers want, they want tech and automatic. BMW doesn't care about what the second and third owner wants.

Tesla out sold Audi last year and are gunning for BMW and mercedes. BMW understands new luxury car buyers want tech with their cars, so thats the direction their heading.

Manuals will probably continue to decline to niche sports cars like M3/m4/m2 and 911/caymans.

From some of the interviews BMW stated the take rate for manuals on the M2 was around 40-50% versus the regular 3 series was less then 17%. They said the business case wasnt their to offer manual on a regular 3 series. Manufacturers have to pay to crash test the manuals separately from the autos at least in the US, so it adds a huge cost to get a manual certified.

Exactly, there are huge development costs even for an off the shelf transmission to get it to work with a car. I don't lament the death of the manual, even though I was a die hard manual guy. When in reality the only reason I was is because auto trans used to be terrible and many were only 4sp. The slush box 6sp in these cars is more than adequate. The new trans are both fun and perform amazingly. Steering feel is another story, BMW hopefully addressed this.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

In BMW's defense, thats what most new 3 series buyers want, they want tech and automatic. BMW doesn't care about what the second and third owner wants.

Tesla out sold Audi last year and are gunning for BMW and mercedes. BMW understands new luxury car buyers want tech with their cars, so thats the direction their heading.

Manuals will probably continue to decline to niche sports cars like M3/m4/m2 and 911/caymans.

From some of the interviews BMW stated the take rate for manuals on the M2 was around 40-50% versus the regular 3 series was less then 17%. They said the business case wasnt their to offer manual on a regular 3 series. Manufacturers have to pay to crash test the manuals separately from the autos at least in the US, so it adds a huge cost to get a manual certified.

Manufacturers just need to lobby US Congress to change the DOT regs to allow for crash test simulation modeling to substitute for real vehicle crash testing when major driveline components are swapped out (i.e. manual trans for an automatic). There is no technical reason why simulation can not be used. Every major automotive manufacturer uses element analysis and modeling to develop a new chassis and evaluate crash performance long before any steel is cut, shaped, and welded up to make a car body in white. It's fricking archaic.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Exactly, there are huge development costs even for an off the shelf transmission to get it to work with a car. I don't lament the death of the manual, even though I was a die hard manual guy. When in reality the only reason I was is because auto trans used to be terrible and many were only 4sp. The slush box 6sp in these cars is more than adequate. The new trans are both fun and perform amazingly. Steering feel is another story, BMW hopefully addressed this.

yeah the ZF8 speed amazing, but in a M car, i think it needs to be manual. But i agree if you live in a major city and daily driving, auto is the way to go, unfortunately.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Manufacturers just need to lobby US Congress to change the DOT regs to allow for crash test simulation modeling to substitute for real vehicle crash testing when major driveline components are swapped out (i.e. manual trans for an automatic). There is no technical reason why simulation can not be used. Every major automotive manufacturer uses element analysis and modeling to develop a new chassis and evaluate crash performance long before any steel is cut, shaped, and welded up to make a car body in white. It's fricking archaic.

i dont disagree with you, but their probably busy right now lobbying for no auto tariffs and lower cafe miles.

A US-EU tariff war would hurt BMW/Mercedes both ways, since BMW exports BMW SUVs to EU and china, and imports BMW cars from EU to the US.

The BWM South Carolina plant won for the 10th yr in a row as the #1 US manufactured Exporter by value. BMW already started hedging by moving car production to mexico.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

i dont disagree with you, but their probably busy right now lobbying for no auto tariffs and lower cafe miles.

A US-EU tariff war would hurt BMW/Mercedes both ways, since BMW exports BMW SUVs to EU and china, and imports BMW cars from EU to the US.

The BWM South Carolina plant won for the 10th yr in a row as the #1 US manufactured Exporter by value. BMW already started hedging by moving car production to mexico.

They are lobbying... for lower auto tariffs exporting into China. That will help BMW.

But anyway, I'm just arguing for dropping archaic rules so we can have more diversity in transmission choices. It's completely stupid to think a manual transmission will materially behave any different in a crash than an automatic transmission.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Exactly, there are huge development costs even for an off the shelf transmission to get it to work with a car. I don't lament the death of the manual, even though I was a die hard manual guy. When in reality the only reason I was is because auto trans used to be terrible and many were only 4sp. The slush box 6sp in these cars is more than adequate. The new trans are both fun and perform amazingly. Steering feel is another story, BMW hopefully addressed this.

The European 3 will have a manual trans. development costs are already sunk. It's US testing regulations that keep the business case from closing for the US market.

[SilverSlug]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

yeah the ZF8 speed amazing, but in a M car, i think it needs to be manual. But i agree if you live in a major city and daily driving, auto is the way to go, unfortunately.

Well... I grew up and learned to drive in NYC, currently live in San Francisco (dense traffic and steep hills), and I prefer a 6spd manual for life.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

Well... I grew up and learned to drive in NYC, currently live in San Francisco (dense traffic and steep hills), and I prefer a 6spd manual for life.

i did 7 years driving manual in los angeles traffic daily driving 1.5hrs each way on the 405. Lol i'm never doing that again.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

They are lobbying... for lower auto tariffs exporting into China. That will help BMW.

But anyway, I'm just arguing for dropping archaic rules so we can have more diversity in transmission choices. It's completely stupid to think a manual transmission will materially behave any different in a crash than an automatic transmission.

For china, BMW is just building another factory in china to cover the chinese market. So it'll probably hurt the south carolina guys in the long run unfortunately.

i think its just the DOT and NTSHA way of slowly getting rid of manuals from the main stream cars and keep them to low volume niche sports cars. Manuals get less mpg compared to autos now.

[carguy138]

Nothing to base this on but I have a sneaking suspicion that BMW isn't quite yet done with manuals on the 3 series. They might be testing the waters to see how much uproar it creates without offering a manual.

Call it wishful thinking but so much of the brand maturity is credited to silky smooth I6 motors and manual transmissions because people enjoyed the experience. Now with how powerful and quiet cars have become with no where to really open them up, they are getting boring. Probably a good reason why we are seeing older nostalgic cars commanding such a price premium (i.e. clean E30s).

I wouldn't be surprised if they have one in the works but are waiting to see how the autos only sell. Similar to how everyone complained how big the 3 series got and they produce the 1 series.