[tlow98]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=43252

if I had an E36, mine would probably be done already, lol.

Sweet build. And yeah, that oil level meter is quite nice!

[Hobbs64]

Hass, I have that adapter plate in the pic. It is an S52 plate for a custom manifold. I'm not using mine if you're interested in it PM me.

[Hobbs64]

Hass,

I sent you a PM but your inbox is full.

[hassmaschine]

Yeah sorry just emptied it.

That would be awesome! I need to make some progress this year, finish the swap and clear space in my garage..

[hassmaschine]

So I just picked up a really clean, complete head for ~$250 - pretty happy about that! I started pulling apart mine, it's not really 'worn' but damn is it filthy. There's just so much crud from what I assume are years and years of not changing the oil.

Great thing is the 'new' head comes with the vanos solenoids, adjusters, eccentric shaft sensor, etc. I have those parts but they're all disgusting.

Trying to track down a set of S54 throttles for under $200. I might be there. if Hobbs64 still has that adapter plate I can probably mock it up - there's one bolt at the OFH that I'm not sure will clear, but I think I can work around it.

I'll have a 3rd set of valvetronic shims to send to Marty for the MILV treatment too.

[W37V]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

So I just picked up a really clean, complete head for ~$250 - pretty happy about that! I started pulling apart mine, it's not really 'worn' but damn is it filthy. There's just so much crud from what I assume are years and years of not changing the oil.

Great thing is the 'new' head comes with the vanos solenoids, adjusters, eccentric shaft sensor, etc. I have those parts but they're all disgusting.

Trying to track down a set of S54 throttles for under $200. I might be there. if Hobbs64 still has that adapter plate I can probably mock it up - there's one bolt at the OFH that I'm not sure will clear, but I think I can work around it.

I'll have a 3rd set of valvetronic shims to send to Marty for the MILV treatment too.

And that exactly-7lb flywheel is still holding strong?

[hassmaschine]

it's holding strong on my shelf, yes - lol.

I need to modify it slightly before I can use it, pick up a clutch etc. but not right away - need to sort out the engine first. I've had a brand new transmission and transfer case sitting in a box for like 6 years now that need a home too..

[Hobbs64]

Hi Hass,

I still have the adapter plate. If you're interested, we can have another made off mine. I am very interested in you intake configuration. Are you going to run your engine in a 325IX?

[330iE90]

This franken build is very interesting. Hopefully we get some updates soon

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by Hobbs64

Hi Hass,

I still have the adapter plate. If you're interested, we can have another made off mine. I am very interested in you intake configuration. Are you going to run your engine in a 325IX?

Yes

Assuming I have the throttles soonish, i should coordinate with measurements.. I think the ITBs will need slight changes to the adapter plate. I might need to modify the mount point on cylinder #1 as I think it could interfere with the OFH bolts. I was thinking I could mock something up with some plywood (I have lots of materials and tools to mess with).

Pretty happy I found a pretty mint head for dirt cheap - I was thinking I'd end up paying for a new one (which is cheaper than a typical rebuild, lol). That leaves me room to buy the ATI damper which I think I will want for the (hopefully) high-rpm powerband I'm planning..

I have to figure out what to do with the bottom end now - stock? stroker? higher comp pistons? the stock stuff is pretty good - I mean really, OEM BMW engine internals are probably better than 90% of what you can get aftermarket anyway. the stock stuff is super light which is good for my goals (~8krpm peak redline). Just not sure what condition it's in until I pull the head.

[tlow98]

I'd probably lean towards refreshing what you have in the bottom end. New rings, bearings and take some weight measurements while you're down there. Have the crank balanced to a little higher standard, but I don't think it'll need much considering the stock engine does 7k with relative ease.

Nice to hear about that head purchase!

[CobraMarty]

Originally Posted by Hobbs64

Hi Hass,

I still have the adapter plate. If you're interested, we can have another made off mine. I am very interested in you intake configuration. Are you going to run your engine in a 325IX?

If you are going to have another one made that will adapt the ITB to the N52 head, make 2, I'll take one.

[hassmaschine]

Well, we are assuming that we can control the throttles with our DMEs - I think it should, as MSS70 is basically 99% identical to MSV70 (minus the valvetronic stuff, some of which is still present). I don't know about MSV80 but I don't see why it couldn't do it.

The N52 throttle appears to have 5-6 wires (haven't looked in super detail at the ETM yet), but I think they just combined some of the grounds as the signals are all the same (motor control, motor position, throttle position). Then it's a matter of adjusting the parameters (for the effective throttle diameter etc). And of course, the S54 throttle actuator will need some sort of bracket to fit on the N52.

Not sure what I'll do with the oil separator yet. Might still use the early style as with throttles I should still have enough vacuum. I don't want to use the cheap plastic valve cover but if the early oil separator doesn't work I'll be forced to..

[Terraphantm]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Well, we are assuming that we can control the throttles with our DMEs - I think it should, as MSS70 is basically 99% identical to MSV70 (minus the valvetronic stuff, some of which is still present). I don't know about MSV80 but I don't see why it couldn't do it.

The N52 throttle appears to have 5-6 wires (haven't looked in super detail at the ETM yet), but I think they just combined some of the grounds as the signals are all the same (motor control, motor position, throttle position). Then it's a matter of adjusting the parameters (for the effective throttle diameter etc). And of course, the S54 throttle actuator will need some sort of bracket to fit on the N52.

Not sure what I'll do with the oil separator yet. Might still use the early style as with throttles I should still have enough vacuum. I don't want to use the cheap plastic valve cover but if the early oil separator doesn't work I'll be forced to..

Z4M: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...supply/q3Hzllk

Z4 3.0si: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...supply/qG6vTqX

Throttle stuff is all the way to the right.

Throttle position sensors shouldn't be an issue -- the signal goes to the same pins and I believe they use the same scheme (inverted voltages sweeping from 0.5 to 4.5 or something). The motors are powered by different pins. Seems like the ITBs use more current based on the S54 using 2.5 mm^2 wiring (~14 gauge) while the N52 TB uses 0.75 mm^2 (~18 gauge). I don't thing 14 gauge wiring will fit on the pins used on the MSV DMEs.

I don't know how much current the S54 throttle actuator definitely needs (and how much it uses when it's holding the throttle bodies open in a steady state). MC33186 datasheet seems to indicate that it's rated for a continuous load of 5A and shuts down over 8A. That should be manageable on 18 gauge I think.

[hassmaschine]

yeah I had just looked at the pinouts and not the diagrams. All the signals are there.

Good point on the driver current. I'd bet they are both 12v. Maybe the drivers on MSV70 could be swapped out for higher amperage if required. I'll probably just try it with the stock ones first though and see how it works out.

[Terraphantm]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

yeah I had just looked at the pinouts and not the diagrams. All the signals are there.

Good point on the driver current. I'd bet they are both 12v. Maybe the drivers on MSV70 could be swapped out for higher amperage if required. I'll probably just try it with the stock ones first though and see how it works out.

The drivers are the same (or at least the MSV70 at least uses the same driver as the MSS54). I think they only changed the pins for the sake of being able to fit thicker wires (and possibly the PCB traces are thicker too).

[hassmaschine]

That's good, shouldn't be any problems with it really. There's lots of empty pins - might be able to hardwire it internally for bigger pins/wires.

[Terraphantm]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

That's good, shouldn't be any problems with it really. There's lots of empty pins - might be able to hardwire it internally for bigger pins/wires.

Yeah. Really it probably makes sense to just hookup everything to a bench and measure the current draw. I suspect the worst case scenario would be the throttle being jammed closed and the DME trying to open them.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by Terraphantm

Yeah. Really it probably makes sense to just hookup everything to a bench and measure the current draw. I suspect the worst case scenario would be the throttle being jammed closed and the DME trying to open them.

This is where I step up on my soap box and bitch about 12 volt systems. It's so hard to move any amount of energy with 12 Volts. The world needs to dump it and run 24 or even 36.

In my line of work we are often stuck with 12 volts and trying to supply power 20-50 cable feet away and the required conductor sizes get crazy. We have the same problems with digital switching systems and pin sizes, they are almost always too small for the required conductors.

Sorry about the rant, personal Pet peeve. Maybe one day the industry will change.

[hassmaschine]

hah, yeah. I don't think it will be a problem in this case, there are definitely a couple larger unused pins I can switch the driver to.

I sent a lowball offer on an S54 actuator. I don't really need it right away but it was about 1/3 of the price that I usually see. I only have 3 bolts left to pull the head - those bastards are on there tight (not a bad thing). Ended up breaking my socket on the 3rd to last bolt. Doh.

Also one of the front aluminum "head" bolts was broken, but I think it might have been because I didn't undo them before I released the main bolts. I don't think it could have been broken before as it would have fallen inside the engine when we were manhandling it onto the stand. I might get a stainless helicoil set and replace those two bolts with steel, they are inside the engine after all and not easy to access.

I suppose once I have the head off it's not much additional work or cost to rebuild the bottom end so maybe i'll have something to put into my E30 by the end of this decade.. lol. FWIW I started working on a new engine build back in 2011!

[Hobbs64]

I'm still a little confused. Are we far enough along to modify the adapter plate to the ITB's for the S54? Hass, are you comfortable that you can wire the ITB's to the N52 harness (and of course share?

Who all wants on of these adapter plates? Once I have a number, I'll head over and talk to my machine shop.

[hassmaschine]

Yes I'm certain that the S54 throttle actuator will work. If you look at the diagrams Terra linked to, all the signals are the same - some of them are just shared (grounds and power inputs) on the N52. As I have said, MSS70 and MSV70 are very similar - and MSS70 uses the same actuator & signals as MSS54. There will be some parameters to change in the tune (throttle open area basically) but that can all be copied from MSS70.

Originally I wanted to use just trumpets and no throttles at all, but not having any throttles has it's own issues (no way to generate vacuum for the oil separator, potential failsafe issues if valvetronic goes haywire, etc). Plus adapting the S54 throttles is likely less expensive anyway since it has the same basic port shape already - otherwise I'd have to get something machined from a round port to an oval port shape, plus getting trumpets, an airbox, etc. to all work. I'm just hoping the airbox will clear my brake booster..

What will be interesting to see is if the S54 ports are similar in size to the N52. Looking at pictures of the S54/N52 heads more, I'm convinced that the N52 is based on the same design - just that everything is smaller and less aggressive. The inlet side of the IBTs is a little bigger than ideal, the question in my mind is how close in size is the outlet side to the N52..