[Welcome to NBA Jam]

People are really quick to blame any and all BMW problems on oil for some reason.

[djjsarai]

So far the issues have been very limited to a small amount of cars. Under 15 or so and the reason(s) for the failures have not all been discussed. I would not worry about it unless your car is knocking or having oil starvation issues. I am at 124K miles and still going strong. Been tuned since 19k and have just been getting more faster and modified ever since. I am also a person who has probably driven their N55 harder than most and have not given the car any easy drive or day.

[Xdrive35i2014]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

What oil are you using that is "breaking down." Modern synthetics are fine at temps over 300f with very little viscosity loss across a wide range. This isn't the 80s.

I run my car hard, I see 27xf oil temps on track, and oil still comes back from Blackstone looking fine after 5k miles.

This isn't an oil issue. The stock oil temp range of 210f-250f is perfect really. If you cant keep your oil in that margin then upgrade your oil and water coolers. If you still think your oil is the problem then log your oil pressure and prove it... You'll be able to see oil thinning out from high oil temps if your oil pressure dips and stops meeting target. Until you do that, stop blaming oil.

I'd put money on user error long before oil. Guy probably did a pull right off the lot on a cold motor.

I was just reading on the forums on how some people feels that BMW runs the N55 too hot and may decrease the lifespan of the oil. Considering that you have blackstone testing your oil, I will trust you.

Any reason why the M cars engine oil are kept to a much lower temp?

[xxMike61]

Last year I went through a summer of varying degrees of hard driving (with 0w-40 after switching from oem 5w30) and went 9k miles on one oil interval. I changed the oil and went another 5k and did an blackstone sample because I was getting paranoid from reading on the forums too much. Results came back clean and got what was expected. This was all on shitty cali 91 pump and NEVER RAN e85 on these two oil intervals. Its been about 5k from my last and will do another oil analysis. I can post my old results if anyone wants to see

[Bours]

Some people are saying the bottom of the n55 doesnt like alcool ( meth/e85 ) and after few thousands miles it can dilute in the oil if you spray a lot !
Its like it gets past piston rings and can cause a spun bearing in some cases....

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by Bours

Some people are saying the bottom of the n55 doesnt like alcool ( meth/e85 ) and after few thousands miles it can dilute in the oil if you spray a lot !
Its like it gets past piston rings and can cause a spun bearing in some cases....

Maybe E85 gets into the bottom of the N55. But meth has no way of getting to mix with oil it evaporators sooooo quickly there is no chance.. So that doesnt make much sense. But E85 thats another story.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Bours

Some people are saying the bottom of the n55 doesnt like alcool ( meth/e85 ) and after few thousands miles it can dilute in the oil if you spray a lot !
Its like it gets past piston rings and can cause a spun bearing in some cases....

Methanol is much more of a problem then ethanol. It's really useful for cooling but not so much for supplementing your fueling. Reliability, consistency, distribution between cylinders, and acid into the oil. Want a 10 second strip car? go for it... Want a reliable daily driver than does frequent short trips without getting up to temperature? I'd stay away from it...

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Maybe E85 gets into the bottom of the N55. But meth has no way of getting to mix with oil it evaporators sooooo quickly there is no chance.. So that doesnt make much sense. But E85 thats another story.

I have yet to see any black-stone report show fuel dilution, or water, in the oil on any report other than N54s with leaky injectors. Google around yourself.

Meth doesn't magically "evaporate" when it's sprayed in a sealed cylinder. It is going to interact with oil the same way as any other cylinder contents do during a combustion cycle. Except, methanol is much more damaging. Methanol produces the acidic byproduct everyone always trys to blame ethanol for. I am paraphrasing this from a whitepaper I read which i can't find a link to right now. I think it was from Ford or some other flex fuel car manufacturer.

[Bours]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

Methanol is much more of a problem then ethanol. It's really useful for cooling but no so much for supplementing your fueling. Reliability, consistency, distribution between cylinders, and acid into the oil.

that might have my spun my bearing.....i sprayed A LOT lately.....who knows

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam

People are really quick to blame any and all BMW problems on oil for some reason.

I know right LOL

You have S65 guys that SWEAR by nothing other than 10w-60. Then you have others than won't run anything other than 30wt. Yet, bearings still wear quickly in both instances... Maybe it's just tight tolerances across 100k miles of abuse that does it?

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Xdrive35i2014

Any reason why the M cars engine oil are kept to a much lower temp?

Define "much lower" because from what I understand they operate at around 210f-230f on the street and see 250f+ oil temps on track just like an N55 does.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

I have yet to see any black-stone report show fuel dilution, or water, in the oil on any report other than N54s with leaky injectors. Google around yourself.

Meth doesn't magically "evaporate" when it's sprayed in a sealed cylinder. It is going to interact with oil the same way as any other cylinder contents do during a combustion cycle. Except, methanol is much more damaging. Methanol produces the acidic byproduct everyone always trys to blame ethanol for. I am paraphrasing this from a whitepaper I read which i can't find a link to right now. I think it was from Ford or some other flex fuel car manufacturer.

Ofcourse FORD is gonna say that.. their entire FLEX industry is based on E85..

MEth is proven to work when used properly. So many platforms use it. Many people install shitty systems and cheap options that fail. BMW put meth/water injection on the M4...

Meth evaporates quickly and burns like fuel inside the chamber. ITs IMPOSSIBLE for meth to get inside the crankcase. Even if it does its alcohol it will evaporate...

Its proven to work so lets not spread personal theories.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Ofcourse FORD is gonna say that.. their entire FLEX industry is based on E85..

MEth is proven to work when used properly. So many platforms use it. Many people install shitty systems and cheap options that fail. BMW put meth/water injection on the M4...

Meth evaporates quickly and burns like fuel inside the chamber. ITs IMPOSSIBLE for meth to get inside the crankcase. Even if it does its alcohol it will evaporate...

Its proven to work so lets not spread personal theories.

The only people spreading "personal theories" are the ones trying to blame oil durability with 0 evidence.

I neve rsaid meth was his problem. I said that meth is worse than E85. I also said that I've never seen an E85 car show any signs of PROVEN fuel degradation on this platform (read up for the user who just posted a 9k interval using E85 and got back steller results). Prove me wrong with an oil anaylsis. E85 evaporates too. Hence, why the oil thermostat is set to 210f+ and importance is placed on getting moisture out of the oil with frequent hot sessions.

The issue with meth is not in its liquid state (or evaporative). The issue is that carbon byproducts produced from combustion are acidic. The name esaceps me but the whitepaper I was reading differentiated it from the type of carbon byproducts produced from burning ethanol. Meth producing a significantly more acidic byproduct which will degrade oil add-paks faster than burning ethanol. Take that information as you will.

I PERSONALLY said it was probably user error.

Here is a great read from MAHLE on bearing failure: http://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/med...s-brochure.pdf

[xxMike61]

Oops small typo. Meant to say I never ran any ethanol mixtures on either of those two oil runs

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

The only people spreading "personal theories" are the ones trying to blame oil durability with 0 evidence.

I neve rsaid meth was his problem. I said that meth is worse than E85. I also said that I've never seen an E85 car show any signs of PROVEN fuel degradation on this platform (read up for the user who just posted a 9k interval using E85 and got back steller results). Prove me wrong with an oil anaylsis. E85 evaporates too. Hence, why the oil thermostat is set to 210f+ and importance is placed on getting moisture out of the oil with frequent hot sessions.

The issue with meth is not in its liquid state (or evaporative). The issue is that carbon byproducts produced from combustion are acidic. The name esaceps me but the whitepaper I was reading differentiated it from the type of carbon byproducts produced from burning ethanol. Meth producing a significantly more acidic byproduct which will degrade oil add-paks faster than burning ethanol. Take that information as you will.

I PERSONALLY said it was probably user error.

Here is a great read from MAHLE on bearing failure: http://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/med...s-brochure.pdf

Thank you for the clarification and the article. Love to read stuff like that.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Thank you for the clarification and the article. Love to read stuff like that.

Timing being thrown off mid cycle from the spun crank hub could very well have bent the rod. That bent rod could have then rode the rod bearing irregularly causing failure.

Not much you can do about the crank hub failure.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

Timing being thrown off mid cycle from the spun crank hub could very well have bent the rod. That bent rod could have then rode the rod bearing irregularly causing failure.

Not much you can do about the crank hub failure.

Yes thats true and i have said this before on this thread that there is alot of speculation in general. People who have had serious engine damage issues tend to lean towards a common theme of "These engines seem to have a common inherent flaw" which ofcourse is not true.

But people feel better when they know they are not alone. So a lot of speculation. For all that we know each and every one of these spun bearing fails could be a completely different cause...

Every failed motor has to be torn apart and investigated before reaching conclusions.. I have not seen ONE N55 taken apart to be investigated for this issue. Not even 1.

[SnapCoupe]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Yes thats true and i have said this before on this thread that there is alot of speculation in general. People who have had serious engine damage issues tend to lean towards a common theme of "These engines seem to have a common inherent flaw" which ofcourse is not true.

But people feel better when they know they are not alone. So a lot of speculation. For all that we know each and every one of these spun bearing fails could be a completely different cause...

Every failed motor has to be torn apart and investigated before reaching conclusions.. I have not seen ONE N55 taken apart to be investigated for this issue. Not even 1.

This is what the issue is. If the motor is under warranty, BMW isn't going to pay techs to tear apart the old motor. If someone is paying out of pocket, there is no way they are going to want to fork up the extra 10 hours of labor to tear it apart. Speculation is the only thing we really have going.

[Bours]

Mine is getting torn appart ill update everybody

[SnapCoupe]

Originally Posted by Bours

Mine is getting torn appart ill update everybody

Looking forward to hearing your findings. I wanted to tear mine apart, but I couldn't afford to not get the core charge back from BMW.

The only thing I had to go off of was the mass amount of copper flakes in the oil and oil filter.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by Bours

Mine is getting torn appart ill update everybody

thanks man i know urs will be rebuilt so makes sense. I have a feeling ur engine has bent a rod. Mark my words. (more speculations lol)

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by SnapCoupe

This is what the issue is. If the motor is under warranty, BMW isn't going to pay techs to tear apart the old motor. If someone is paying out of pocket, there is no way they are going to want to fork up the extra 10 hours of labor to tear it apart. Speculation is the only thing we really have going.

yes makes sense.