[Sgop335]

Originally Posted by 30FF_

https://datazap.me/u/30ff/engine-blown?log=0&data=3-20

If i look at this log and had to say engine blew, I would not. Cant really see much wrong seen worse logs. Yea ok stft hits 34 for a moment so..
May be you didnt post the correct log who knows.

[iqraceworks]

......keep in mind, there are always three sides to every story.

And we aren't hearing Kens side...

[30FF_]

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

......keep in mind, there are always three sides to every story.

And we aren't hearing Kens side...

[IMG][/IMG]

Ken states my liqui moly 5w-40 oil I am using could've have spun the rod bearings recommended I run motul 5w-40 next time

[Dave92N54]

I first want to start by saying, I have no interest in ruining someone or placing blame here. Only sharing what I've found.

For whatever reason, I keep coming back here to look at the logs. The second log honestly looks perfectly fine. You wouldn't really even think there was something wrong. Are we sure the engine is toast? Has the oil even been drained yet? Filter checked?

I'm always too curious for my own good. I spent a decent part of today researching boost levels vs ignition advance. I also have been comparing the second log here to: ones I've found on s p o o l s t r e e t, and from others I'm acquainted with.

Overall, it's more aggressive than even finished 17T logs I could find (which weren't many, and with varying boost and E levels). Nonetheless 13* at 23psi is quite a lot for a base map.

I couldn't find a single full E85 log with over 9* of timing on the top end. Your log shows 13.5 before redline. It was never even below 10* for the entire log. The best full E85 logs I found were here: https://datazap.me/u/threetirtyfive/...0&data=3-22-26

Take what you will from that. Those logs are damn near 30psi, so you could expect timing to be lower than yours. What stands out to me most is the "curve". Yours is almost "flat", others I've seen, including in my own logs, increase incrementally before peaking towards redline.

If I had to draw a bottom line conclusion, maxed fuel trims (essentially less headroom) paired with high timing equaled . I don't think 13.5* is enough to blow the engine on it's own.

Hopefully this is of some use.

Again, this is based on research I did today, and by no means should be taken as a guarantee. I would probably recommend contacting another tuner to see what they think on the matter.

Edit: Or maybe someone like RSL will pop their head in here real quick to lend us their wealth of knowledge

[30FF_]

Originally Posted by Dave92N54

I first want to start by saying, I have no interest in ruining someone or placing blame here. Only sharing what I've found.

For whatever reason, I keep coming back here to look at the logs. The second log honestly looks perfectly fine. You wouldn't really even think there was something wrong. Are we sure the engine is toast? Has the oil even been drained yet? Filter checked?

I'm always too curious for my own good. I spent a decent part of today researching boost levels vs ignition advance. I also have been comparing the second log here to: ones I've found on s p o o l s t r e e t, and from others I'm acquainted with.

Overall, it's more aggressive than even finished 17T logs I could find (which weren't many, and with varying boost and E levels). Nonetheless 13* at 23psi is quite a lot for a base map.

I couldn't find a single full E85 log with over 9* of timing on the top end. Your log shows 13.5 before redline. It was never even below 10* for the entire log. The best full E85 logs I found were here: https://datazap.me/u/threetirtyfive/...8;data=3-22-26

Take what you will from that. Those logs are damn near 30psi, so you could expect timing to be lower than yours. What stands out to me most is the "curve". Yours is almost "flat", others I've seen, including in my own logs, increase incrementally before peaking towards redline.

If I had to draw a bottom line conclusion, maxed fuel trims (essentially less headroom) paired with high timing equaled . I don't think 13.5* is enough to blow the engine on it's own.

Hopefully this is of some use.

Again, this is based on research I did today, and by no means should be taken as a guarantee. I would probably recommend contacting another tuner to see what they think on the matter.

Good write up Dave, yes I checked filter a lot of metal in it shinny brown, I had thought the same that 13 degrees of timing was to much for a base map, I would have thought that a base map would be more conservative to see where the car stands at not hit it with 13 degree of timing

[Dave92N54]

Originally Posted by 30FF_

I would have thought that a base map would be more conservative to see where the car stands at not hit it with 13 degree of timing

Like I said, I'm not knowledgable enough to say that's completely the case as there are many factors that play in there, but I agree it seems a tad much. I think a good place to start may be contacting another tuner to see what they think.

There's no real way for any of us here to speculate what happened. I'm not totally convinced against the AIC ROM being problematic as well.

[Sgop335]

Originally Posted by Dave92N54

Like I said, I'm not knowledgable enough to say that's completely the case as there are many factors that play in there, but I agree it seems a tad much. I think a good place to start may be contacting another tuner to see what they think.

There's no real way for any of us here to speculate what happened. I'm not totally convinced against the AIC ROM being problematic as well.

It has been shown that for e85 you don’t necessarily very high timing. In fact the pumping loss during compression can be high for such high timing since a advanced spark will result in high compression pressure before TDC.
But i see many tuners use quite high timing so may be they know better not sure.
Especially w e85 one can get excellent MBT benefits even w moderate timing.

However comparing the 2 logs, other log has pretty high timing too. The general practice is 1 deg 1 psi. So timing on the base map doesn’t seem too bad, i m
not a fan for reasons mentionedabove.

[pysical]

For E85 content, most good tuners will tune anything over 60/70 % as if it was full 85. If I remember right, Chris @ Motiv does 60 percent and up is the same.

For the second log, everything looks good. you hit max trim for a split second but the afrs are still in a good range.

I would remove the belt and start the car and see if it still makes noise. I have heard of AC compressor making noise that sounds a lot like rod knock. You can also use a stethescope to listen around. I would start the car and rev it up just a little and see if the noise goes away or gets faster. Make sure to record it so you only do it once.

as far as your video it doesn't sound like evap tick. Maybe a injector loose but I wouldn't think so. it sounds like metal tapping metal to me.

[iqraceworks]

I find it odd that Ken is saying that the most logical cause of your bearing failure (if that's what it really is) is the brand of oil you decided to ran. Thousands and thousands of people run Liqui-Moly oil.....if there was an issue with it, it would be well known.

It also sounds like he knows nothing about how the tune on your PI system is setup......and that doesn't sound very encouraging either.

Either way....nothing in those logs sticks out as something that would kill your bearings.

[30FF_]

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

I find it odd that Ken is saying that the most logical cause of your bearing failure (if that's what it really is) is the brand of oil you decided to ran. Thousands and thousands of people run Liqui-Moly oil.....if there was an issue with it, it would be well known.

It also sounds like he knows nothing about how the tune on your PI system is setup......and that doesn't sound very encouraging either.

Either way....nothing in those logs sticks out as something that would kill your bearings.

That's what I find hard to believe that oil was the cause here, a lot of people run this oil and more hp than what I was probably making (500ish , as to the port injection is looked to be working just fine from the logs

[NoGuru]

Have you tested the PI to make sure it is working correctly?

13* is very high on full E and with Base map. Seems strange.

I run full E and no more then 9* of timing. I also race half and 1/4 mile and run Liquid Molly, no issues.

[30FF_]

Originally Posted by NoGuru

Have you tested the PI to make sure it is working correctly?

13* is very high on full E and with Base map. Seems strange.

I run full E and no more then 9* of timing. I also race half and 1/4 mile and run Liquid Molly, no issues.

Yes pi was working properly, and rail pressure didn't drop below 2k

[feuer]

This thread is trending well but I don’t see the significance. Is it that engine had 50k miles? Is it that it was tuned? Why exactly?

[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by NoGuru

Have you tested the PI to make sure it is working correctly?

13* is very high on full E and with Base map. Seems strange.

I run full E and no more then 9* of timing. I also race half and 1/4 mile and run Liquid Molly, no issues.

13deg is pretty mild for straight e85. My E40 tune hits 12deg on the top end at around 26psi of boost. The whole reason you run e85 is because it's around 105 octane....letting you run more boost and timing with no detonation.

That being said....for a "base tune"....yeah, 13deg is pretty agressive when you don't really know how the tune is going to work. My base tune on my E40 mix that I got from my tuner only hit around 8deg....and he slowly bumped up the timing as I ran more logs to see how it would run. Starting off at 13deg on a base tune sounds like a lot...

[Dave92N54]

Just ran across something pretty interesting.

I use Reddit pretty often for programming and school related things, and found myself on the E90 subreddit not too long ago.

User posted today asking about a weird noise they're hearing, which to me sounded like compressor surge. I got a log from them and was informed it's a base map from Ken. The guy clearly has a massive boost leak or i'd guess maybe no/little vacuum to the wastegates as you can see here: https://datazap.me/u/morflax/test

What stuck out to me was fuel and timing. I don't think our DMEs will adjust timing based on boost, right? If so, this guy is running 12* on ACN91 fuel with a boost target of 15 on 19Ts.

[30FF_]

Originally Posted by Dave92N54

Just ran across something pretty interesting.

I use Reddit pretty often for programming and school related things, and found myself on the E90 subreddit not too long ago.

User posted today asking about a weird noise they're hearing, which to me sounded like compressor surge. I got a log from them and was informed it's a base map from Ken. The guy clearly has a massive boost leak or i'd guess maybe no/little vacuum to the wastegates as you can see here: https://datazap.me/u/morflax/test

What stuck out to me was fuel and timing. I don't think our DMEs will adjust timing based on boost, right? If so, this guy is running 12* on ACN91 fuel with a boost target of 15 on 19Ts.

Wtf that's crazy so this could be an ongoing thing, with ken base maps !?

[Sgop335]

Originally Posted by Dave92N54

Just ran across something pretty interesting.

I use Reddit pretty often for programming and school related things, and found myself on the E90 subreddit not too long ago.

User posted today asking about a weird noise they're hearing, which to me sounded like compressor surge. I got a log from them and was informed it's a base map from Ken. The guy clearly has a massive boost leak or i'd guess maybe no/little vacuum to the wastegates as you can see here: https://datazap.me/u/morflax/test

What stuck out to me was fuel and timing. I don't think our DMEs will adjust timing based on boost, right? If so, this guy is running 12* on ACN91 fuel with a boost target of 15 on 19Ts.

Yes they adjust timing based on boost (actual load). Higher the actual load lower the timing and typically increases w rpm.

[Dave92N54]

Originally Posted by Sgop335

Yes they adjust timing based on boost (actual load). Higher the actual load lower the timing and typically increases w rpm.

This makes much more sense. I couldn't seem to find any information on the subject. Thank you for the clarification

[RSL]

If it did eat bearings, I'd assume it's probably just a lot of low/midrange torque. Oil is a factor, but 550-600+ft-lbs at 3000rpm is perfectly safe under any circumstance, said no one ever. Higher gears make it worse.

It's possible it was hurt during that first pull, but not catastrophically, and let loose a short time later or more happened between the first log and the failure that we don't know about. It's not going to change whatever happened, but I certainly wouldn't log like that or run that map without changes. It's a bit much in spots for finished map, let alone a starter.

[30FF_]

Originally Posted by RSL

If it did eat bearings, I'd assume it's probably just a lot of low/midrange torque. Oil is a factor, but 550-600+ft-lbs at 3000rpm is perfectly safe under any circumstance, said no one ever. Higher gears make it worse.

It's possible it was hurt during that first pull, but not catastrophically, and let loose a short time later or more happened between the first log and the failure that we don't know about. It's not going to change whatever happened, but I certainly wouldn't log like that or run that map without changes. It's a bit much in spots for finished map, let alone a starter.

Originally Posted by RSL

If it did eat bearings, I'd assume it's probably just a lot of low/midrange torque. Oil is a factor, but 550-600+ft-lbs at 3000rpm is perfectly safe under any circumstance, said no one ever. Higher gears make it worse.

It's possible it was hurt during that first pull, but not catastrophically, and let loose a short time later or more happened between the first log and the failure that we don't know about. It's not going to change whatever happened, but I certainly wouldn't log like that or run that map without changes. It's a bit much in spots for finished map, let alone a starter.

Definitely will tell ken to lower it down, was considering changing tuners but I already wasted 550 and pretty sure he wouldn't want to give me my money back

[whyzee125]

Keep us posted on this. I just checked and your timing is more aggressive than mine and yours is a base map. I'm full e85 with PI too.

I'd definitely change the oil and check the filter. If you spun a rod bearing, you'll likely see it. Take the belt off too, like one poster suggested. While I wouldn't rule out a spun bearing given all that's going on here, I'm not convinced entirely based on the sound that it's a spun bearing.

[Mustafa.e92]

Any recommendations for tuners? My single kit is coming next month