[TheMidnightNarwhal]

UPDATE PROBLEM RESOLVED: My brakes were warped to hell so I decided to change them. Went with Meyle rotors and Textar Disc and WOW that pedal feel is restored to exactly how it was when I picked the car up from the dealer. Guess my Centric mettalic pads and rotors weren't up to par. Maybe I improperly bedded them in to? Happy to finally have my great pedal feel!


Okay so I had this softy feeling pedal for a while now and today I did new brake bleed since I had an issue with my front left bleeder screw.

I did the full BMW TIS bleed procedure that is to normal pressure bleed all 4 corners. Then one corner by one, open the valve, run the software so the pump activates, then pump the brake 5 times, close valve and go to the next one.

Even after all this my pedal feels kinda soft.

At this point I'm thinking it might be the brake pads that are shitty and their bite is not really good and would need an upgrade? My current brake pads are Centric Posi Quiet Metallic.

Anyone can chime in... thanks.

[Volasko]

I went down this rabbit hole last year. Wasted a G note swapping the master cylinder after I was convinced this was the issue. It was not.

Then I had a shop re-bleed ensuring the ABS module was activated. This helped a LITTLE.

Then I installed copper caliper bushings hoping the spongy rubber bushings where the issue, this helped a LITTLE too.

After all that time and money wasted I decided to live with it. I know when my pads were close to being done the spongy-ness was worse. I don't know if any of this helps your situation but just sharing my experience.

[Csmoove195]

Originally Posted by Volasko

I went down this rabbit hole last year. Wasted a G note swapping the master cylinder after I was convinced this was the issue. It was not.

Then I had a shop re-bleed ensuring the ABS module was activated. This helped a LITTLE.

Then I installed copper caliper bushings hoping the spongy rubber bushings where the issue, this helped a LITTLE too.

After all that time and money wasted I decided to live with it. I know when my pads were close to being done the spongy-ness was worse. I don't know if any of this helps your situation but just sharing my experience.

I went through this process a couple days ago on account of me swapping rear brakes for a 15" wheel conversion. I had to repeat the abs pump bleeding process via INPA 3 times on all 4 wheels just to get the pedal back to where it used to feel. Might be worth trying the whole process again in case there's more air stuck somewhere. It's also easier to have at least 2 people so you can keep the brake reservoir full as well while someone else pumps the brakes.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Volasko

I went down this rabbit hole last year. Wasted a G note swapping the master cylinder after I was convinced this was the issue. It was not.

Then I had a shop re-bleed ensuring the ABS module was activated. This helped a LITTLE.

Then I installed copper caliper bushings hoping the spongy rubber bushings where the issue, this helped a LITTLE too.

After all that time and money wasted I decided to live with it. I know when my pads were close to being done the spongy-ness was worse. I don't know if any of this helps your situation but just sharing my experience.

Thanks helps to re-assure my pedal feels like it should... another member here I met in person to test hid pedal and feels exactly the same.

Comparing to my mom's new car, her's felt so much firm it's crazy.

Thing about brake pads I was thinking maybe the initial bite is the issue but yeah... guess it's just a quirk of this car!

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Csmoove195

I went through this process a couple days ago on account of me swapping rear brakes for a 15" wheel conversion. I had to repeat the abs pump bleeding process via INPA 3 times on all 4 wheels just to get the pedal back to where it used to feel. Might be worth trying the whole process again in case there's more air stuck somewhere. It's also easier to have at least 2 people so you can keep the brake reservoir full as well while someone else pumps the brakes.

Hmmm interesting. I only did a full bleed and one round of bleed with ISTA...

Don't know how worth to try it again. Yours really became better?

[Csmoove195]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Hmmm interesting. I only did a full bleed and one round of bleed with ISTA...

Don't know how worth to try it again. Yours really became better?

I did see a large improvement from the second time I completed the bleeding process as compared to the first time I did mine. When I bled mine the first time around, the pedal was heavy and didn't move before starting the car. As soon as I started the car, the pedal went to the floor with ease. That told me there was either more air in the abs pump, a leak on the bleeding ports, or the abs pump itself had failed. Knowing the brakes worked before I did all of this, I was willing to try the process again before jumping the gun on the pump.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Csmoove195

I did see a large improvement from the second time I completed the bleeding process as compared to the first time I did mine. When I bled mine the first time around, the pedal was heavy and didn't move before starting the car. As soon as I started the car, the pedal went to the floor with ease. That told me there was either more air in the abs pump, a leak on the bleeding ports, or the abs pump itself had failed. Knowing the brakes worked before I did all of this, I was willing to try the process again before jumping the gun on the pump.

Darn ok. I had only used 2 bottle of brake fluid and was planning on returning the extra I had.

Guess I'll decide this week end.

[Csmoove195]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Darn ok. I had only used 2 bottle of brake fluid and was planning on returning the extra I had.

Guess I'll decide this week end.

If the fluid is already coming out like new you can just reuse the old stuff, I bought 3 bottles but only cycled through 2 of them since it was all new by the 3rd process lol. Good luck, hope it's an easy fix.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Csmoove195

If the fluid is already coming out like new you can just reuse the old stuff, I bought 3 bottles but only cycled through 2 of them since it was all new by the 3rd process lol. Good luck, hope it's an easy fix.

Ahh good point. If all my fluid is fresh I could re-use eh.

Might give it a go, if I do I'll reply back here eventually.

[juld0zer]

Fluid isn't that expensive to compromise. It absorbs moisture when exposed to air.

I have done numerous master cylinder and DSC module swaps, bled as per the repair instructions and never had any issues. Just one round of bleeding through INPA or ISTA/D. Don't pump the pedal rapidly when prompted. Do firm and steady full strokes and use your foot to allow the pedal to return against your foot instead of spring back up.

You need to determine if it is a lack of bite or if the pedal is truly spongy. With the engine idling apply firm constant pressure and the pedal should not sink further. Did you machine the discs or fit new discs?

Csmoove - Our cars are electronically rear biased. Could that be causing your poor brake performance? What calipers did you fit on the rear? You can change calipers without losing much fluid

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by juld0zer

Fluid isn't that expensive to compromise. It absorbs moisture when exposed to air.

I have done numerous master cylinder and DSC module swaps, bled as per the repair instructions and never had any issues. Just one round of bleeding through INPA or ISTA/D. Don't pump the pedal rapidly when prompted. Do firm and steady full strokes and use your foot to allow the pedal to return against your foot instead of spring back up.

You need to determine if it is a lack of bite or if the pedal is truly spongy. With the engine idling apply firm constant pressure and the pedal should not sink further. Did you machine the discs or fit new discs?

Csmoove - Our cars are electronically rear biased. Could that be causing your poor brake performance? What calipers did you fit on the rear? You can change calipers without losing much fluid

Right but if I just just put the fluid in I mean it wouldn't be worse than how it's already in the state it is in the car?

I also had a camera set up to see if fluid came out bubble free as per TIS instructions for bleed routine and it did.

And yeah you are perfectly right, I'm not experienced enough to know if lack of bute or spongy pedal. So when is is idling, apply a set ammount of pressure and eventually it shouldn't be able to be pressed further? I'm not sure I understand the test.

And well, I did change my whole front and rear pads and disc yes when I did brake change back a few months.

[Volasko]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

And yeah you are perfectly right, I'm not experienced enough to know if lack of bute or spongy pedal. So when is is idling, apply a set ammount of pressure and eventually it shouldn't be able to be pressed further? I'm not sure I understand the test.

This is what he is talking about:

This is why I was convinced it was the master cylinder. I still get this a little.

[Csmoove195]

Originally Posted by juld0zer

Fluid isn't that expensive to compromise. It absorbs moisture when exposed to air.

I have done numerous master cylinder and DSC module swaps, bled as per the repair instructions and never had any issues. Just one round of bleeding through INPA or ISTA/D. Don't pump the pedal rapidly when prompted. Do firm and steady full strokes and use your foot to allow the pedal to return against your foot instead of spring back up.

You need to determine if it is a lack of bite or if the pedal is truly spongy. With the engine idling apply firm constant pressure and the pedal should not sink further. Did you machine the discs or fit new discs?

Csmoove - Our cars are electronically rear biased. Could that be causing your poor brake performance? What calipers did you fit on the rear? You can change calipers without losing much fluid

I had fit e90 328i calipers on the rear to fit a 15" drag setup. And it was my fault for leaving the brake lines open overnight, air got in everywhere so I'm not surprised when it didn't get all the air out using the traditional bleeding method.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Volasko

This is what he is talking about:

This is why I was convinced it was the master cylinder. I still get this a little.

Okay so I did do the apply linear pressure and eventually the pedal won't go down further unless I use more force. So safe to assume that it's... a lack of bite?

Hard to remember but I could swear my pedal felt more firm than this when I bought the car last summer at 89k KM.

Then at 94k KM I changed rear pads and rotors. Then at 98k KM I changed my front disc and pads and did a full basic brake flush (no ISTA/ABS software) and I remember at how disappointed I was that day, I was going to expect a more firm pedal thanks to bleeding just like my mom's new car (Euro SUV) but not really.

And now at 106 00KM I did a second go at bleeding doing the full official BMW way thinking it would make it nicely firm and nada.

So maybe in the end it IS my front pads? Do brake disc can alter pedal feel or it would really only be the pads at the limit? I might buy Textar pads and try... IDK...

And like I said I tried another member's N55 brake pedal and his felt pretty similar to me.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Really tempted to try out Textar pads since that was what was on it and since it could be a cause of my pedal feel. They are like double the price of the pads I purchased so I'm leaning 90% towards poor pads... still looking for input tho.

[Volasko]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Really tempted to try out Textar pads since that was what was on it and since it could be a cause of my pedal feel. They are like double the price of the pads I purchased so I'm leaning 90% towards poor pads... still looking for input tho.

Take a look at post 7 and later, it has always been something I've tried to check but never got around it.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1421826

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Volasko

Take a look at post 7 and later, it has always been something I've tried to check but never got around it.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1421826

Hmmm quite interesting. I noticed to the video you linked is yours so if I may just to confirm my test as well... when you say "applying pressure, applying pressure" you like keep a equal ammount of pressure on the pedal and it just keeps on going until bottomming out? In my case if I keep a steady/equal pressure it doesn't bottom out of the travel, seems to stop before due to pads compressing and becoming harder to press. Just want to clarify this test!

I do see someone else mentions though to stick with OE equipement/Textar... argh really wanna get Textar but it's throwing a random 100$ at it and I don't like throwing random money at issues. And that's without including the rear pads.

Man if only I could recall 100% how it felt...

[Volasko]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Hmmm quite interesting. I noticed to the video you linked is yours so if I may just to confirm my test as well... when you say "applying pressure, applying pressure" you like keep a equal ammount of pressure on the pedal and it just keeps on going until bottomming out? In my case if I keep a steady/equal pressure it doesn't bottom out of the travel, seems to stop before due to pads compressing and becoming harder to press. Just want to clarify this test!

I do see someone else mentions though to stick with OE equipement/Textar... argh really wanna get Textar but it's throwing a random 100$ at it and I don't like throwing random money at issues. And that's without including the rear pads.

Man if only I could recall 100% how it felt...

I would say it was an equal amount of pressure. I was pressing pretty hard though, but nothing out of the norm the system would experience in any hard braking situation. This was essentially what had me waste a G note swapping the MC.

[Volasko]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Hmmm quite interesting. I noticed to the video you linked is yours so if I may just to confirm my test as well... when you say "applying pressure, applying pressure" you like keep a equal ammount of pressure on the pedal and it just keeps on going until bottomming out? In my case if I keep a steady/equal pressure it doesn't bottom out of the travel, seems to stop before due to pads compressing and becoming harder to press. Just want to clarify this test!

I do see someone else mentions though to stick with OE equipement/Textar... argh really wanna get Textar but it's throwing a random 100$ at it and I don't like throwing random money at issues. And that's without including the rear pads.

Man if only I could recall 100% how it felt...

I would say it was an equal amount of pressure. I was pressing pretty hard though, but nothing out of the norm in any hard braking situation. This was essentially what had me waste a G note swapping the MC. I met up with another member and sat in his newer 3 series and attempted the same test, found his pedal to be similar to mine and haven't thought about this since. I've also done 3 track days since all of this and never had issue with my brakes or having my pedal bottom out while diving into a hard turn.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Volasko

I would say it was an equal amount of pressure. I was pressing pretty hard though, but nothing out of the norm in any hard braking situation. This was essentially what had me waste a G note swapping the MC. I met up with another member and sat in his newer 3 series and attempted the same test, found his pedal to be similar to mine and haven't thought about this since. I've also done 3 track days since all of this and never had issue with my brakes or having my pedal bottom out while diving into a hard turn.

Ok ok. Yeah me neither did drag runs like 10 after one another and always braked ok. Never had like actual brake safety issues.

One thing I just did just now on my drive I don't know how you can explain it I was driving like 140 and coming to a stop on the off ramp so I brake slowly but firmly and like I released the brake to cruise, then when I went back on it oh my wow the pedal feel felt really firm.

Would you have nay idea why? Is it just the heat that is doing that maybe?

[juld0zer]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Ok ok. Yeah me neither did drag runs like 10 after one another and always braked ok. Never had like actual brake safety issues.

One thing I just did just now on my drive I don't know how you can explain it I was driving like 140 and coming to a stop on the off ramp so I brake slowly but firmly and like I released the brake to cruise, then when I went back on it oh my wow the pedal feel felt really firm.

Would you have nay idea why? Is it just the heat that is doing that maybe?

That would be a loss of servo assist if the second press had less travel and less braking effect.

Is your brake pedal rock hard (hardly any travel) on cold starts?

What size tyres are you running front and rear? You mention a drag setup so i imagine the rear would be a non OE size

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by juld0zer

That would be a loss of servo assist if the second press had less travel and less braking effect.

Is your brake pedal rock hard (hardly any travel) on cold starts?

What size tyres are you running front and rear? You mention a drag setup so i imagine the rear would be a non OE size

Oh nono the brake pedal becomes nicely firm and brakes very well in that highway instance.

On startup no pedal feels normal as it is.

I don't run anything drag specefic yet but I do think my current street setup is non OEM. Front is 235/35/19 and rears are 265/30/19

I'm really really thinking it's just a lack of bite at this point.