[m@rk]

I have noticed tonight a number of posts where people have recommended the driver engages DTC before embarking in a spirited drive in order to get "the best" out of the car.

For example:

Originally Posted by themetz

I don't think there's a way to delete the gearbox 'memory'... But if you want liven things up use DS mode or flappies and press the DTC button once before you set off!!

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Toxic, glad your enjoying the big D. A re-map enhances all the qualities you mention even further.

Try DTC, that also unleashes the car. It enables you to get out of the corner quicker.

Now the manual states:

DTC is a traction-optimised version of DSC intended for use in special circumstances, such as roads covered in deep snow. Under these circumstances the system ensures maximum forward traction, but at a certain cost in terms of stability. Consequently, you must exercise suitable caution when driving under these conditions.

So taking what the manual says, and knowing that DTC has certainly proved itself for me in the recent snow where it really did make a difference, is it not rather dangerous to advise somebody to engage DTC prior to going out on a quick drive on dry roads.

Indeed is it not a suicidal thing to do?

I am also aware that this is very different to turning DSC OFF by pressing the button for 3 seconds.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by m@rk

is it not rather dangerous to advise somebody to engage DTC prior to going out on a quick drive on dry roads.

Indeed is it not a suicidal thing to do?

You are joking I hope?

[themetz]

yes. it's certain suicide. and we are all in fact dead.

[willhollin]

I engaged DTC earlier on today, i'm communicating from the afterlife.

[m@rk]

Originally Posted by NFS

You are joking I hope?

Not at all.

People are suggesting that DTC improves the handling of the car at speed.

BMW state the opposite of this.

Who is right?

[willhollin]

Originally Posted by m@rk

Not at all.

People are suggesting that DTC improves the handling of the car at speed.

BMW state the opposite of this.

Who is right?

Take your car out on a warm dry night and presuming you can drive (no offence meant) then pressing the DTC button will make the car feel like a completely different car.

[dxb335d]

Last summer I had it Permanantly disabled all the time. I even get frustrated with DTC pressed once when it still kicks in when pushing on hard.

WIthout an LSD our car our cars are seriously hampered. T/C and stabilty cuts in constantly when your trying to put the power down as the inside whats the spin all the time.

Disengaging it, enables the inside wheel to spin, and usually the outside wheel will join it to break away progressively and positively in most situations, enabling rapido progress with minimum fuss and No ''Push-on'' (Understeer, but not quite, its strange). I find DSC creates alot of understeer, car is always pushing on. I find that dangerous.

Without it on the car drives more naturally are has far more fluidity.

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by m@rk

Not at all.

People are suggesting that DTC improves the handling of the car at speed.

BMW state the opposite of this.

Who is right?

Someone will no doubt correct me if I am wrong but the DTC simply allows a slightly increased amount of slippage in the wheels before cutting power/apply brakes (with the affect of restoring/attempting to restore traction).

Unless you're really on the edge (and/or driving outside of your capabilities) it's no different to driving any other RWD (or any other car for that matter) car which doesnt have all the fancy toys a modern/well spec'd car has.

You don't think you could break rear end traction in something like a Ford Ka if you wanted to?

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

I find DSC creates alot of understeer, car is always pushing on. I find that dangerous.

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement (having only had my car a couple of weeks) but I definitely detect a hint of understeer, is that because the DSC/DTC are fully on all the time?

More importantly, will a quick press of the "DTC" button correct this?

[m@rk]

No

I get the fact that it dials back the traction control (yes I have seen various explanation posts here on the forum).

My concern about the posts is 2 fold.

First. When advising the OP to turn DTC on, it is worded such that the car is tightened up, more responsive and so on BUT at no point does anybody point out that this is also dialling back the safety features so the onus is now on the driver to keep out of trouble. This is very different from DS where the driver is still protected (to a point). And of course remember at least 49.9% of all members of this forum are of a below average driving standard when compared against the whole board membership.

Secondly, reading the words of the BMW manual at face value, I get the impression that there is something more at play here. Are the dynamics changed in any way hence the warning?

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement (having only had my car a couple of weeks) but I definitely detect a hint of understeer, is that because the DSC/DTC are fully on all the time?

More importantly, will a quick press of the "DTC" button correct this?

When Im ''On it'' which I do most of the time in all honesty, I find the car starts to break traction and the car shits itself and tries to stop me going into the field (which Im no where near going to) and it starts cutting power to the wheels, this then makes the car start to go straight on, not as in lack of front end bite but the rear of the car not wanting to go in an arc around the bend due to the power being cut and brakes applied. (Not by me)

With it off the car is much more managable, well it is for me anyhow. The car breaks traction so I manage the throttle myself and Exit the bend much faster than I could have down with the shitty DSC on. (The car is far more lively for sure)

Yes I agree with it in principle as it saves alot of lives. Stops fools killing themselves.

[toxicnerve]

Ok and let's get one thing cleared up too.

There are only 3 modes of operation right:

1. Full on - default when you start the car.

2. DTC Activated - a short press (i.e. press and release) of the DTC button activates the DTC. This is what we're talking about here. The system allows increased slippage before cutting in.

3. DTC and DSC Deactivated - a long press (i.e. 3 seconds or more) of the DTC button. This is the balls-out "you're on your own" mode, ideally suited for track driving.

[dxb335d]

I was talking both. I prefer ''Your on your own'' mode.

[sheps]

Originally Posted by m@rk

And of course remember at least 49.9% of all members of this forum are of a below average driving standard when compared against the whole board membership.

What? Says who, you? How do you know this?

On the meets I have attended I have found every single person in attendance to be both enthusiastic and highly capable drivers. I think the fact that people are even on here shows a dedication, enthusiasm and subsequently a higher degree of skill than the average driver - you are suggesting the reverse?

Everyone knows 75.6% of statistics are made up. I would suggest your comment originates from this camp.

[themetz]

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

Ok and let's get one thing cleared up too.

There are only 3 modes of operation right:

1. Full on - default when you start the car.

2. DTC Activated - a short press (i.e. press and release) of the DTC button deactivates the DTC. This is what we're talking about here. The system allows increased slippage before cutting in.

3. DTC and DSC Deactivated - a long press (i.e. 3 seconds or more) of the DTC button. This is the balls-out "you're on your own" mode, ideally suited for track driving.

activates dynamic traction control

Originally Posted by sheps

Everyone knows 75.6% of statistics are made up. I would suggest your comment originates from this camp.

I believe it's actually 78.3%

Originally Posted by m@rk

First. When advising the OP to turn DTC on, it is worded such that the car is tightened up, more responsive and so on BUT at no point does anybody point out that this is also dialling back the safety features so the onus is now on the driver to keep out of trouble. This is very different from DS where the driver is still protected (to a point). And of course remember at least 49.9% of all members of this forum are of a below average driving standard when compared against the whole board membership.

With DTC on DSC will still cut in and save your bacon if you drive like a c*ck ie beyond your limits

Originally Posted by m@rk

Secondly, reading the words of the BMW manual at face value, I get the impression that there is something more at play here. Are the dynamics changed in any way hence the warning?

if you read the manual you will also note that it tells you not to put your head in the window before closing. i believe these helpful hints are for people with limited intelligence who may otherwise presume doing something stupid might allow them a no-win-no-fee opportunity to pay for their next few holidays.

Of course, the answer to this is to buy one of lifes safer cars like a Toyota.... oh sh*t, no wait.

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by themetz

activates dynamic traction control

yes sorry, that's what I meant, I will edit my post though my mistake will be forever immortalised in yours!

[m@rk]

Originally Posted by sheps

What? Says who, you? How do you know this?

How can it be anything else?

Think about it.

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by m@rk

How can it be anything else?

Think about it.

You're assuming this board's membership is representative of the wider population.

[dxb335d]

If its fully disabled, its fully disabled.

[M3-FAST]

Mark, your being a bit of a clown here mate if you don't mind me saying.

Trying to carefully play on words that 'at least 49.9% of all members of this forum are of a below average driving standard when compared against the whole board membership.'

Are you actually saying that half the members of of a below average driving standard. That would explain your quite psychotic post saying that we are all suicidal for contemplating driving without every nanny aid known to man activated.

Or are you trying to be clever and say that if we averaged everyones driving then of course 49.9% would be below average and 50.1% would be above.

If you are unsure about your driving ability (after all you could be in the bottom 10% of the 49.9% below average members??) then you should leave DSC and every other driving aid on when contemplating a 'spirited drive' and leave all us looneys to commit suicide.

By the way, if you ever want to experience ///M Dynamic mode then pop by, I am happy to take you for a 'spin' and demonstrate it

[SlicktopTTZ]

Wow....

If you can't tell the difference for yourself between the 3 "Electronic Nanny" settings then I think you have the wrong idea of "spirited driving".

And really, enough with the too much horsepower thing, even the fastest 335i's and 135i's to date are relatively slow compared to the other modified sports cars out there. There is a reason that some people have daily drivers that run single digit 1/4 times, a car isn't always out of control if it can make 1000 peak horsepower. The accelerator pedal is variable for a reason.......

[pjs]

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

Ok and let's get one thing cleared up too.

There are only 3 modes of operation right:

1. Full on - default when you start the car.

2. DTC Activated - a short press (i.e. press and release) of the DTC button activates the DTC. This is what we're talking about here. The system allows increased slippage before cutting in.

3. DTC and DSC Deactivated - a long press (i.e. 3 seconds or more) of the DTC button. This is the balls-out "you're on your own" mode, ideally suited for track driving.

1 = Normal mode for me

2 = Using a bit more lately, getting more traction and less yellow lights when getting away pronto

3 = Got to be nuts to use this when its wet. Only to be used in wide open icy spaces or fields