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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > BMW Coding > Please discuss K can vs D can vs Icom



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      12-13-2016, 04:30 PM   #1
ctuna
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Please discuss K can vs D can vs Icom

Please discuss the differences of K can vs D can vs Icom cables,
Anybody got any idea of what the hardware and protocol differences
are beside just speed?
Aren't all the buses serial in these vehicles?

Why do some people seem to do everything with a K can or D can
cable and some things need the ICOM? Is it the year of the car?
Which years I think the k can wasn't used after 3/07

At what year or revision of the car did the simple cables K and D can
become not capable of doing VO changes and updating some modules.
Or is this a misconception and they just need the right revision of software
or are there some other barriers.

Are there any links that already have addressed these issues here.
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      12-13-2016, 04:41 PM   #2
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Well, ICOM is purposely designed for BMW. Original NOT clone ICOM units are much safer to use when programming as well as having the essential MOST adapter for optical programming.

The K+DCAN cable as I understand it is basically a clone of the BMW Omitec USB cable.
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      12-13-2016, 06:33 PM   #3
ctuna
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That doesn't describe what the real design differences are.
K and D can bus are a universal serial bus standard .

This kind of says the same thing but shows the cable innards

http://blog.obd2express.co.uk/2015/1...a-kdcan-cable/

The level of complexity of the circuits is higher .

I wonder if because the k can runs at a much lower speed its the reason some get away with it
on the 06 cars . Then as has been pointed out here
many times the quality of the cable counts to .

I was thinking that there might be some kind of
special signal handshaking or some proprietary
code that stopped it from working on the D can
for some operations but I guess that's not the case?(or hardware change in the cars themselves)

Last edited by ctuna; 12-13-2016 at 08:34 PM..
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      12-13-2016, 10:54 PM   #4
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I'm not sure exactly what you want to achieve? DCAN is fast CAN. Cars prior to 03/2007 still used K-line. Then BMW switched to DCAN.

The ICOM is completely different. It's designed as part of a LAN for a reason as it's ideal for use in a garage Workshop environment where the ICOM is connected to the OBD port and yet theoretically the operator could be sat at a desk whilst still connected to the OBD port over the LAN.
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      12-13-2016, 11:27 PM   #5
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Its not really based on year - no E90s used kline. The pin is active on the DME but its not connected. They are all BN2000 /DCAN.

Technically, i think all MSV70, MSV80 and MSD80 dmes have a kline pin but its not used on our platform
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      12-13-2016, 11:59 PM   #6
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Well why does my k line only cable work for coding
on my 06 then. Al least that is what it was sold
to me as.
I have read numerous articles that said it was
k line up to 3/07 build dates if my memory is working.
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      12-14-2016, 12:05 AM   #7
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As it was already said, cars prior 03/2007 used KLine, then they switched to DCan

therefore DCan cable doesnot work E9X-s prior to 03/2007 and vise verca

There are cables(K+Dcan) with both protocols.
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      12-14-2016, 12:07 AM   #8
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My car is a 2006 - it does not use kline. Its not year based. No US market E9x cars ever had kline.

Most cables support both.
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      12-14-2016, 12:20 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
My car is a 2006 - it does not use kline. Its not year based. No US market E9x cars ever had kline.

Most cables support both.
thanks for input,

looks like what i wrote is true for US versions only
not sure about E6X series
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      12-14-2016, 01:51 AM   #10
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...,d.cGc&cad=rja

This says k line up to 3/07
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      12-14-2016, 03:25 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine
My car is a 2006 - it does not use kline. Its not year based. No US market E9x cars ever had kline.

Most cables support both.
Sorry, K-Line was used from 1997 onwards by BMW replacing the old L-Line up consistently up until the end of 2006. There was of course an overlap period when BMW switches to DCAN.
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      12-14-2016, 10:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
ok, but it's wrong - and that's not an official BMW document either. The WDS, however, is, and E90s don't have kline, not even early ones. The pin for Kline is x60002 #2 (on all MSV & MSD DMEs) and you will find on the E9x they all say "not used".
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      02-08-2017, 03:34 PM   #13
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Do we have agreement that all US e9x use Dcan ? Mine being a 10/2006 I also thought that it's a K-line, only here I read differently. Are there any speed tests that can confirm ? AFAIK the K-line should be way slower than a Dcan...
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      02-08-2017, 03:58 PM   #14
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It's definitely D-can. I double checked by testing with one of my Kline cables in the car - doesn't work. It does however work with my MSV70 bench setup (which is using Kline at the moment).

Also MSV80 doesn't support Kline at all, and BMW started using that well before 03/07.
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      02-08-2017, 04:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
It's definitely D-can. I double checked by testing with one of my Kline cables in the car - doesn't work. It does however work with my MSV70 bench setup (which is using Kline at the moment).

Also MSV80 doesn't support Kline at all, and BMW started using that well before 03/07.
Mine's a MSV80. From K-line to D-can, that is good news. You are the man !
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      02-08-2017, 06:30 PM   #16
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yeah, 10/2006 would be a 328i with MSV80.

And just to clear up potential confusion - no E90s, including MSV70 cars, use Kline. it is supported by the DME, but it is not hooked up - they are all set up as D-CAN (BN2000 to be exact).
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      02-08-2017, 07:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
ok, but it's wrong - and that's not an official BMW document either. The WDS, however, is, and E90s don't have kline, not even early ones. The pin for Kline is x60002 #2 (on all MSV & MSD DMEs) and you will find on the E9x they all say "not used".
What about the JBE module?






I mean if yours doesn't have it it doesn't have it. But WDS definitely seems to indicate that the early E90 JBE module should act as a K-line to PT-CAN/K-CAN translator (much like the KGM on pre 2008 E60s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaanBMW View Post
Do we have agreement that all US e9x use Dcan ? Mine being a 10/2006 I also thought that it's a K-line, only here I read differently. Are there any speed tests that can confirm ? AFAIK the K-line should be way slower than a Dcan...
D-CAN is theoretically faster, but in reality, at least with these cables, it isn't. At best it's the same speed - I actually get much better speeds K-line. Might not be the case with an ICOM interface or similar.

Best speeds should be through an ICOM with the MOST adapter


A D-CAN cable should support both modes though, so you don't have to worry about that too much. There are some modules they don't flash properly though (MSS60 gets corrupted when written in D-CAN mode for some reason... if you program it through the K-line or an ICOM, it's fine).
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      02-08-2017, 08:00 PM   #18
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i have interesting case,

for my bench setup i have KGM from E60 (High, Dcan) works fine,

I also have JBE from E90 2006, and did not succeed to make it work,
it has no wire on pin 17, therefore its K=Line for sure,

my only success was limited when i connected obd pin 7 to pin 33 on jbe and 4,5 from obd to ground, only in this case i got "datatransmission to interface disturbed"

any other connection variations would result error "no response from controlunit"

i would blame my cable or setup, but i had this setup/cable working with k=line cars for sure, so i doubt my jbe is bad

btw, here is document also, describing(i guess) k-line version of JBEs,
pay attention to pin 17 @ 14271

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...e91%2C-e92.pdf

Last edited by Levanime; 02-08-2017 at 08:12 PM..
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      02-08-2017, 08:14 PM   #19
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Try connecting pin 17 to ground

I actually converted my D-CAN KGM to a K-line KGM by forcing WinKFP to flash 9133704.0pa

After the flash completes the KGM starts communicating over K-line, so it looks like the flash fails (since as far as WinKFP could tell, the module stopped responding). Hooked up the K-line and it works great.
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      02-08-2017, 10:41 PM   #20
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I would

But as i wrote pin17 on jbe is empty
No wire

Last edited by Levanime; 02-09-2017 at 12:20 AM..
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      02-08-2017, 11:40 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terraphantm View Post
What about the JBE module?






I mean if yours doesn't have it it doesn't have it. But WDS definitely seems to indicate that the early E90 JBE module should act as a K-line to PT-CAN/K-CAN translator (much like the KGM on pre 2008 E60s)




D-CAN is theoretically faster, but in reality, at least with these cables, it isn't. At best it's the same speed - I actually get much better speeds K-line. Might not be the case with an ICOM interface or similar.

Best speeds should be through an ICOM with the MOST adapter


A D-CAN cable should support both modes though, so you don't have to worry about that too much. There are some modules they don't flash properly though (MSS60 gets corrupted when written in D-CAN mode for some reason... if you program it through the K-line or an ICOM, it's fine).
I dont know - it definitely didnt work on either of my E9xs. With the same cable connected to the DME, it works.
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      02-09-2017, 11:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levanime View Post
I would

But as i wrote pin17 on jbe is empty
No wire
i figured out,

apparently i had JBE and its cables from different years
and different pinout
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