[G30M]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Stewards: "Car 14 [Alonso] had to perform minor braking":

they look at the brake pedal pressure in kg on car telemetry
nothing to do with what the hands are doing

[a5m]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Mercedes ? = No further action !

Exactly this.

Even Brundle and Crofty thought it was an unsafe release, and going by the penalty track record this weekend you'd think...but it's just the Mercedes/Lulu perpetual get out of jail free card.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

I think the gap is still considerable if RB were to tell Max to push...

Yep, RB/Max are untouchable this year.

[M5Rick]

In other words Max was cruising just enough while HAM and ALO were at max lol
Thank goodness Ferrari got a decent strat to grab those 22 points with SAI being told to play the game and stick to the program.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Mercedes ? = No further action !

Not even a bird lodged in a front brake duct could stop Max as he managed his 19 over the course, my worry was when he thumped that s/kerb that sent RUS into the barrier when he lost control.
The 19 is stable under extreme provocation which the 14 clearly isn't.
Link to brake duct incident
https://racingnews365.com/horner-rev...ls--2023-06-19

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by g21

they look at the brake pedal pressure in kg on car telemetry
nothing to do with what the hands are doing

The criterion: was Hamilton's Mercedes car released from its pit stop position in a way that could endanger Alonso/Alonso's car.

Articles 34.4 and 34.14.a) of the 2023 Formula One Sporting Regulations (25 April 2023 version - see here) specify the following about the pit lane and "unsafe pit release":

"34.4 The pit lane will be divided into two lanes, the lane closest to the pit wall will be designated the “fast lane” and may be no more than 3.5 metres wide, the lane closest to the garages will be designated the “inner lane”.
Other than when cars are at the end of the pit lane in accordance with Articles 43.3. 44.2 and 57, the inner lane is the only area where any work can be carried out on a car. However, no work may be carried out in the fast lane if it is likely to hinder other cars attempting to leave the pit lane."

"34.14 In all of the cases detailed in this Article 34.14, a car will be deemed to have been released either when it has been driven out of its designated garage area (when leaving from the garage) or after it has completely cleared its pit stop position following a pit stop.
a) Cars must not be released from a garage or pit stop position in way that could endanger pit lane personnel or another driver.
b) Competitors must provide a means of clearly establishing, when being viewed from both above and in the front of the car, when a car was released.
c) If a car is deemed to have been released in an unsafe condition during any free practice, or qualifying session or sprint shootout, the stewards may drop the driver such number of grid positions as they consider appropriate. Such penalty will be applied to the race unless the infringement has been committed during the sprint shootout, in which case the penalty will be applied to the sprint session.
d) If a car is deemed to have been released in an unsafe condition during a sprint session or a race, a penalty in accordance with Article 54.3d) will be imposed on the driver concerned. However, if the driver retires from the sprint session or the race as a result of the car being released in an unsafe condition a fine may be imposed upon the Competitor.
e) An additional penalty will be imposed on any driver who, in the opinion of the stewards, continues to drive a car knowing it to have been released in an unsafe condition."

Alonso - almost certainly driving close to the 80 km/h speed limit in the "fast lane" - used his brain, hands and feet to take evasive action, avoiding a collision with Hamilton muscling himself into the "fast lane" from the "inner lane". This was a close call. What Mercedes/Hamilton did should not have been condoned by the stewards. And it's irrelevant whether it was Mercedes/Hamilton or any other team/driver - this was an "unsafe release" by Mercedes ("Cars must not be released from a garage or pit stop position in a way that could endanger pit lane personnel or another driver.").

The alternative: Alonso does not take evasive action and damages his front-end by colliding into Hamilton.

[M5Rick]

^ Karma was made for the pit lane incident when Fernie nailed hammy for second place and didn't he know it when he was surrounded by his doting team in the cool down.
Fernie has nerves of steel watching what he says and knows how to deal with his ex teammate.
''Copy, leave it to me'' nothing more needed to be added

[M5Rick]

Try again with the last lap.

[M5Rick]

..and here are the race highlights.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Not even a bird lodged in a front brake duct could stop Max as he managed his 19 over the course, my worry was when he thumped that s/kerb that sent RUS into the barrier when he lost control.
The 19 is stable under extreme provocation which the 14 clearly isn't.
Link to brake duct incident
https://racingnews365.com/horner-rev...ls--2023-06-19

Yeah . I heard it during the race because MAX said : I hit a bird !

Damn . May the bird RIP !

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Yeah . I heard it during the race because MAX said : I hit a bird !

Damn . May the bird RIP !

In a previous house I lived in a pigeon slammed into a patio glass door, I heard the bang and the imprint of the bird was on the glass which was intact but sadly I had to bury the dead bird in a shoe box at the end of the garden.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Yep, RB/Max are untouchable this year.

And last year (2022) ?

MAX won 15 races in 2022 , and that's a stunning F1 victory record .
And he got 2 DNF , otherwise it would have been 17 victories ...

[M5Rick]

^ Max has said the next target for him is to get 200 wins for RBR

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Artemis

If Alonso "had to perform minor braking" as the Stewards considered (thus required to brake), it means that Hamilton had become an obstacle while Alonso was driving in the pitlane on his way to re-enter the track.

To me when a passing car has to brake, it's an unsafe release.

But the time between the incident and the conclusion of the stewards says to me that some politics had been taken place behind the scenes. Normally they don't take this long to give a verdict for something like this.

Alonso had a pitstop that was about 1sec faster than Hammy's pitstop, that's why he was there when Hammy drove away.

[M5Rick]

^ To me it's obvious that bc it's Hammy involved he is apportioned some 'special status' as he is currently a 7 times WC. We know any other driver would be immediately given a 5 second penalty or worse especially if vociferous Brundle was on the stewards.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Yep, RB/Max are untouchable this year.

Let's hope they're untouchable until Max ends his contract and then he can leave F1 as a 8 time WDC (8 in a row in fact) with all the records he doesnt already have, and go on to win Le Mans and Indy 500...
I truly believe we are witnessing not only the single best man to ever pilot an F1 car (def the best since Senna and Schumacher) but maybe any car in any motorsport category if he does win in the others. We already know he's top 3 in sim racing, which is not easy and he only does in his spare time.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

In other words Max was cruising just enough while HAM and ALO were at max lol
Thank goodness Ferrari got a decent strat to grab those 22 points with SAI being told to play the game and stick to the program.

Alo and Ham were ON IT 100% attack while Max was just taking it easy. As I previously said, the single lap after the SC ended, Max put a 1.2 gap on Ham when they were both on it. He has the ability to cruise or punish those behind him and develop a gap when/if needed.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Let's hope they're untouchable until Max ends his contract and then he can leave F1 as a 8 time WDC (8 in a row in fact) with all the records he doesnt already have, and go on to win Le Mans and Indy 500...
I truly believe we are witnessing not only the single best man to ever pilot an F1 car (def the best since Senna and Schumacher) but maybe any car in any motorsport category if he does win in the others. We already know he's top 3 in sim racing, which is not easy and he only does in his spare time.

Hamilton and Russell finished P2 and P3 after Verstappen during the F1 Barcelona GP (June 4, 2023). An interviewer coined Hamilton and Russell "best of the rest today" during a Toto Wolff interview. Those words assumed that also this season no-one is truly a match for Verstappen and his Red Bull.

Originally Posted by Artemis

Interviewer facing Toto Wolff after the 2023 Spanish GP with the fact that currently the 2023 F1 universe features two worlds: planet Max Verstappen with his RB19 and the rest of the field ('best of the rest'):

• Interviewer: "But Toto, you [Mercedes] were 'best of the rest' today. Clearly that race pace of the [Mercedes] car is fantastic."
• Toto Wolff: "Bringing us back on earth, yeah ?! « best of the rest »..."
• Interviewer: "I mean, it's a big step forward. The race pace today [of the Mercedes] was lightning-quick."

01:46 - 01:56:

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Yeah . I heard it during the race because MAX said : I hit a bird !

Damn . May the bird RIP !

Thank you Ferrari
Helmut Marko has said that if it wasn't for the quali tyre confusion between Chas and Ferrari and the dangerous blocking of another driver by Carlos receiving a grid drop for that then RBR's 100th win would have been more difficult to achieve as the F 23's pace was very good at this track.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut...ull-100th-win/

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Hamilton and Russell finished P2 and P3 after Verstappen during the F1 Barcelona GP (June 4, 2023). An interviewer coined Hamilton and Russell "best of the rest today" during a Toto Wolff interview. Those words assumed that also this season no-one is truly a match for Verstappen and his Red Bull.

I think as long as Max is around, it's going to be tough for anyone else to win. And to think he is not even at his peak yet.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

^ To me it's obvious that bc it's Hammy involved he is apportioned some 'special status' as he is currently a 7 times WC. We know any other driver would be immediately given a 5 second penalty or worse especially if vociferous Brundle was on the stewards.

The stewards also made sure to get Hulk out of hammy's way with a bull$hit penalty. Hulk wasn't impeding or endangering anyone.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by Artemis

The criterion: was Hamilton's Mercedes car released from its pit stop position in a way that could endanger Alonso/Alonso's car.

Articles 34.4 and 34.14.a) of the 2023 Formula One Sporting Regulations (25 April 2023 version - see here) specify the following about the pit lane and "unsafe pit release":

"34.4 The pit lane will be divided into two lanes, the lane closest to the pit wall will be designated the “fast lane” and may be no more than 3.5 metres wide, the lane closest to the garages will be designated the “inner lane”.
Other than when cars are at the end of the pit lane in accordance with Articles 43.3. 44.2 and 57, the inner lane is the only area where any work can be carried out on a car. However, no work may be carried out in the fast lane if it is likely to hinder other cars attempting to leave the pit lane."

"34.14 In all of the cases detailed in this Article 34.14, a car will be deemed to have been released either when it has been driven out of its designated garage area (when leaving from the garage) or after it has completely cleared its pit stop position following a pit stop.
a) Cars must not be released from a garage or pit stop position in way that could endanger pit lane personnel or another driver.
b) Competitors must provide a means of clearly establishing, when being viewed from both above and in the front of the car, when a car was released.
c) If a car is deemed to have been released in an unsafe condition during any free practice, or qualifying session or sprint shootout, the stewards may drop the driver such number of grid positions as they consider appropriate. Such penalty will be applied to the race unless the infringement has been committed during the sprint shootout, in which case the penalty will be applied to the sprint session.
d) If a car is deemed to have been released in an unsafe condition during a sprint session or a race, a penalty in accordance with Article 54.3d) will be imposed on the driver concerned. However, if the driver retires from the sprint session or the race as a result of the car being released in an unsafe condition a fine may be imposed upon the Competitor.
e) An additional penalty will be imposed on any driver who, in the opinion of the stewards, continues to drive a car knowing it to have been released in an unsafe condition."

Alonso - almost certainly driving close to the 80 km/h speed limit in the "fast lane" - used his brain, hands and feet to take evasive action, avoiding a collision with Hamilton muscling himself into the "fast lane" from the "inner lane". This was a close call. What Mercedes/Hamilton did should not have been condoned by the stewards. And it's irrelevant whether it was Mercedes/Hamilton or any other team/driver - this was an "unsafe release" by Mercedes ("Cars must not be released from a garage or pit stop position in a way that could endanger pit lane personnel or another driver.").

The alternative: Alonso does not take evasive action and damages his front-end by colliding into Hamilton.

As I said, Wolff was acting out his nervousness and trying to downplay Merc's unsafe release by mimicking Alonso's braking/evasive manuever.