[tilua]

I'm just venting. I've owned 3 different BMW's gladly to say this will be my last one. I'm just fed up with fixing the cooling system all the time. It just seems like BMW use the same material on their models including the early 2000 model, which BREAKS all the time. I'm talking about the plastic they use on all of their hoses, radiator, expansion tank, etc. They get old and becomes brittle (sometimes muddy on the inside) which break off and spew coolant everywhere. On my current car (2008 335i), I've replaced almost all the plastic component (unfortunately though multiple occasions) including the expansion tank, radiator, multiple hoses with the plastic fitting onto the engine, as well as thermostat and water pump. I afraid to drive this car long distance because probably the first hose/plastic piece will fail again because it has been 50K miles or so ago.

This is not only the issue with the E90 line but as well as the E46, E53. I'm not sure if the change has been made on the F30. Why is it so hard for BMW to recognize this is the issue????
We've owned Acura/Honda, Toyota/Lexus, and they never seem to have this issue.

[CTinline-six]

Every manufacturer seems to have it's issues that they refuse to fix.

With BMW it's cooling systems and oil leaks.

With GM it's electrical problems. I can't count the number of times I've driven behind a GM vehicle that is a bit more than 5 years old and the tail lights are already acting up.

With Honda/Toyota the paint is thin and they rust out faster than anything else i've seen.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by tilua

This is not the issue with the E90 line but as well as the E46, E53. I'm not sure if the change has been made on the F30. Why is it so hard for BMW to recognize this is the issue????
We've owned Acura/Honda, Toyota/Lexus, and they never seem to have this issue.

Nissan had such a huge problem with the transmission cooling built into the plastic section of the radiator in the 2005 - 2012 Pathfinders, Armadas, Frontiers, Muranos, etc that NHTSA allowed them to screw over owners with a tiered repair scenario. Only IF the vehicle was under 5 years or 70k miles would they cover the repairs to the cooling system and/or transmission at their discretion. If you were under 8 years or 80k miles you paid a $3000, under 9 years or 90k it was $5000 deductible. If over 9 years or 90k... you were bent over the SA's desk and pounded by everyone in the dealership. Our Pathfinder was 10 years old but only had 69k miles..... I walked bow legged for weeks.

So, don't preach that all other car manufacturers are such saints. Cause they aren't.

btw.... knock on wood... my E91 went 193k miles before any issue with the cooling system.

[tilua]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

With Honda/Toyota the paint is thin and they rust out faster than anything else i've seen.

I agree, Honda and Toyota paint are crap! the clear coat oxidize so fast if you dont wax it every 6 months. Lexus on the other hand, its paint is much better and thicker clear coat.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

Every manufacturer seems to have it's issues that they refuse to fix.

With BMW it's cooling systems and oil leaks.

With GM it's electrical problems. I can't count the number of times I've driven behind a GM vehicle that is a bit more than 5 years old and the tail lights are already acting up.

With Honda/Toyota the paint is thin and they rust out faster than anything else i've seen.

My wife has a GM SUV. Just think, are you ever surprised to see a pre LED GM vehicle, with a burned out DRL?

This would happen to my wife, and I would keep changing the 3157 bulb.

Well guess what? There is a TSB dating to the mid 90's, where the dealer is instructed that if this happens repeatedly, to replace the 3157 with a 4114. Why? The 4114 is designed for (rounding) 14V, not 12.8V. AND, it is a higher wattage. Remember physics v=ir? What happened next? Melted sockets. lol

Anyway with my wife's I replaced the bulb on a Sat., next day out again!! A Jeep forum said to replace the socket, not the bulb. That did it. And the socket had a brownish burned appearance from overheating.

Anyway knock on wood my 335i cooling has been ok but sure maybe they fail too soon. But I think the 2010 3 series was the last of the excellent handling and feeling cars. What can we do?

[cumorris]

The amount of plastic on BMW cars is astounding to me, I have had several plastic components (Radiator plastic, expansion tank, etc.) break from just normal wear and tear overtime. I really wish they would start building these cars with better materials on some of these components. It sucks when you pay that amount of money for a car and get a bunch of plastic. Ohh well.

[tilua]

Originally Posted by John 070

But I think the 2010 3 series was the last of the excellent handling and feeling cars. What can we do?

I'm not familiar with the F30 and newer model? What did they do differently?

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by tilua

I'm not familiar with the F30 and newer model? What did they do differently?

I don't know for sure but when I was shopping 435i I noticed no more black expansion tank. It's now just a transparent ish coolant overflow tank.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by cumorris

The amount of plastic on BMW cars is astounding to me, I have had several plastic components (Radiator plastic, expansion tank, etc.) break from just normal wear and tear overtime. I really wish they would start building these cars with better materials on some of these components. It sucks when you pay that amount of money for a car and get a bunch of plastic. Ohh well.

BMW is really just ahead of what is to come.

Open the hood on any newer model car and everything is plastic. I'm not making excuses for BMW, I just wish all manufacturers didn't do this. For what it's worth, my 2000 Jeep Cherokee cracked two plastic radiator tanks before I bought an aftermarket CSF all metal radiator which has been fine since (knock on wood) and that vehicle is 19 years old now with close to 200k miles.

[gurusan]

Originally Posted by tilua

I agree, Honda and Toyota paint are crap! the clear coat oxidize so fast if you dont wax it every 6 months. Lexus on the other hand, its paint is much better and thicker clear coat.

Subaru paint is pretty crap too.

[sorin1987]

after owning my E90 I am starting to think that the whole car is a piece of s***. When it's working fine it drives great but it is too damn fragile!!!
I have a good friend with Audi and it doesn't look much better.
Guess I'll have to go back to Japanese after this E90 disappoints me again, probably sometime soon.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by sorin1987

after owning my E90 I am starting to think that the whole car is a piece of s***. When it's working fine it drives great but it is too damn fragile!!!
I have a good friend with Audi and it doesn't look much better.
Guess I'll have to go back to Japanese after this E90 disappoints me again, probably sometime soon.

The E90 has been a tank so far.

Japanese cars aren't what they used to be. They are resting on their laurels. My parents have driven Hondas for 20+ years, and after my mom's 2011 Fit, they say it will be their last Honda. Poor quality issues all around including paint, suspension, squeaks and rattles, etc, especially for a car that has under 60k easy driven miles and is garaged.

[gurusan]

Originally Posted by tilua

I agree, Honda and Toyota paint are crap! the clear coat oxidize so fast if you dont wax it every 6 months. Lexus on the other hand, its paint is much better and thicker clear coat.

Subaru paint is pretty crap too.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by John 070

My wife has a GM SUV. Just think, are you ever surprised to see a pre LED GM vehicle, with a burned out DRL?

This would happen to my wife, and I would keep changing the 3157 bulb.

Well guess what? There is a TSB dating to the mid 90's, where the dealer is instructed that if this happens repeatedly, to replace the 3157 with a 4114. Why? The 4114 is designed for (rounding) 14V, not 12.8V. AND, it is a higher wattage. Remember physics v=ir? What happened next? Melted sockets. lol

Anyway with my wife's I replaced the bulb on a Sat., next day out again!! A Jeep forum said to replace the socket, not the bulb. That did it. And the socket had a brownish burned appearance from overheating.

Anyway knock on wood my 335i cooling has been ok but sure maybe they fail too soon. But I think the 2010 3 series was the last of the excellent handling and feeling cars. What can we do?

I want to like GMs, but even their trucks just have way too many issues.

My friend owned both a 2003 2500HD Duramax and 2005 Silverado.

The Duramax:
-transmission had to be rebuilt
-dash cluster stopped working
-power windows stopped working
-heated seat (driver side) failed
-injectors failed
-truck would take forever to start
-went through 7 left rear tail light bulbs

All within a year of ownership, on a stock truck with under 100k miles and dealer service records.

The Silverado (5.3):
-burned a quart of oil every 1000 miles
-dash cluster failed twice
-headlight harness had to be replaced
-throttle body replaced
-alternator replaced
-transmission started slipping at 105k miles
-exhaust manifold bolts snapped
-reverse lights came on when truck was unlocked (standard feature) but they would stay on after starting the truck and driving it down the road

He still claims Chevy trucks are the best.

[catcher22]

BMW's - Cooling and gaskets issues
Mercedes - Electrical issues
American cars - Interior falls apart
Japanese cars - Meh. Paint sucks too

All types of cars have their issues. BMWs and cooling and gaskets will make you pull your hair out indeed. Only for the true enthusiast.

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

BMW is really just ahead of what is to come.

Open the hood on any newer model car and everything is plastic. I'm not making excuses for BMW, I just wish all manufacturers didn't do this. For what it's worth, my 2000 Jeep Cherokee cracked two plastic radiator tanks before I bought an aftermarket CSF all metal radiator which has been fine since (knock on wood) and that vehicle is 19 years old now with close to 200k miles.

remember when renix had the closed cooling system and everyone hated it because they didn't understand it?

and now everything has a closed cooling system.
and now everything has plastic expansion tanks that crack, just like renix jeeps from the 80s.

if you want to place blame, blame the regulators that demand there's no possible way for coolant to ever escape the system, and then you have the reason that now every modern car has a plastic expansion tank.



and simply find the aftermarket metal parts.
That's OPs fault for replacing the stuff he hates with more stuff he hates, rather than going aftermarket and getting aluminum fittings.

edit:
and I'm at 140K miles with all the original pieces, even the waterpump......

[mecheng77]

It must be the Houston heat or maybe your car was overheated prior to you owning it putting a large heat load on the components. The E90 cooling system is pretty durable. I've rarely heard of failed expansion tanks, radiators. Yes some of the cooling hose plastic portion can break but usually when you disturb it. The E46 is another story, they had a terrible overall cooling system. My cooling system is all original.

The one part of the BMW cooling system that puzzles me is that they use an o-ring on the rubber hose. The amount of Engineering the precision fit tolerances to get that right seems a waste of time. Why not a regular hose and clamp?

I believe cars are usually made to match the country of origin. Japanese cars have excellent cooling systems to match the Japanese climate but they rust a lot when exposed to cold salty climates.

Opposite for BMW and Volvo's which are designed for cold climates.

As for GM trucks, they were excellent in the 90s, early 2000s very reliable. They became terrible latter, I would only buy a Ford now.

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Opposite for BMW and Volvo's which are designed for cold climates.
.

my wife's volvo has heat that is simply unbelievable.
on a -teens day you will turn it down after driving for ten minutes.

[N54Society]

Most of these luxury cars cater to the lease market. They don't car what you and me, arguably not the first owners do with the car. Hell, it may be part of their strategy for selling more parts and seeing more service after the 3-year lease is over.

[tilua]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

It must be the Houston heat or maybe your car was overheated prior to you owning it putting a large heat load on the components. The E90 cooling system is pretty durable. I've rarely heard of failed expansion tanks, radiators. Yes some of the cooling hose plastic portion can break but usually when you disturb it. The E46 is another story, they had a terrible overall cooling system. My cooling system is all original.

The one part of the BMW cooling system that puzzles me is that they use an o-ring on the rubber hose. The amount of Engineering the precision fit tolerances to get that right seems a waste of time. Why not a regular hose and clamp?

I believe cars are usually made to match the country of origin. Japanese cars have excellent cooling systems to match the Japanese climate but they rust a lot when exposed to cold salty climates.

Opposite for BMW and Volvo's which are designed for cold climates.

As for GM trucks, they were excellent in the 90s, early 2000s very reliable. They became terrible latter, I would only buy a Ford now.

My car has never been in an overheat situation. Probably the hot Houston weather.

Cracked expansion tank is a common issue it seems. At least from what I've been reading on this forum. I agree with you that the old hose and clamp is less problematic and it probably has to do something with the installation cost. I remember my Honda prelude use to have an aluminum shroud coming out of the engine and the rubber hose connected up to it with a compression clamp. It certainly make installation and removal more difficult though.

This is one of the picture of the coolant line connecting the engine and the turbo. The plastic is so soft that i can chip it off with my fingers.

[TemjinX2]

BMW uses a lot of plastic to save weight and cheaper grades of plastic to save money. Thats why you see that a current 3 series is around 200lbs lighter then a lexus or infinit.

Can they fix this?? yes they can but they won't because they would prefer you lease a car from them every 3yrs instead of keeping your car for 10yrs. They make their money off the 1st and 2nd buyer. They dont care about the 3rd or 4th buyer.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by nsjames

remember when renix had the closed cooling system and everyone hated it because they didn't understand it?

and now everything has a closed cooling system.
and now everything has plastic expansion tanks that crack, just like renix jeeps from the 80s.

Yup. I had a 1990 XJ Limited with the renix system. Closed cooling system worked fine during the time I had it. Zero issues.