[austinse90]

Experiencing more problems with this car, owned it for 3 ~4 months now. I fixed my engine malfunction problem but now the car won't start up.
I'm sure it's a couple problems, starter, alternator, fuel pump, negative terminals. But I don't want to spend and test which one it could be.
It's a 2011 BMW 335i N55 Automatic transmission.
Before the car stopped turning over, it experienced long cranks after its warm, but starts up very quickly in the morning. And it's been like that ever since I bought the vehicle. About a week ago I started up my car, and it was backed up into a slanted drive way, as I started it up the engine struggled to start up and it died out, but when I started it up the second time it was a long crank but turned over, I drove to my destination parked it there and then came back out and started it up again just fine.

Letting it sit over night that day I woke up to it not starting, the car turns on, accessories, A/C, radio, and the infotainment system. When I push the on button with foot on the breaks you can hear a fuel pumping and then a clank afterwards, but it doesn't turn over. Help?

[MartinWake]

can you pull some codes from it?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by austinse90

...2011 BMW 335i N55 Automatic transmission...the car turns on, accessories, A/C, radio, and the infotainment system. When I push the on button with foot on the breaks you can hear a fuel pumping and then a clank afterwards, but it doesn't turn over. Help?

First: rule out loose battery terminals, or bad Engine ground:
1) Inspect the Battery Terminals to ensure they are Tight and NOT corroded;
2) Add an additional GROUND between the Chassis and Engine by (A) connecting one end of a jumper cable to the Chassis Jumpstart GROUND pin (hex pin on Right wing which is a Ground Point) and (B) connecting the other end of the jumper cable to a clean, substantial piece of metal, large bolthead, etc. on the engine. If no crank, go to next step.

Second: Get a helper who knows something about cars to listen over the left wing/fender as you press START with foot on brake & ignition ON. Have him listen for "click" of Starter Solenoid when you press START button. Or YOU listen with someone else pressing START.

If there is an audible click, but it does NOT crank or rotate the engine, then your Starter or Starter Solenoid is defective. You can always TRY to tap on the Starter Motor or Solenoid with a wooden dowel or broom handle. Do NOT use anything metal, as you could easily WELD that to the engine somewhere if you contact the B+ cable that supplies Battery Power to the Starter Motor.

If tapping on the Starter DOES result in proper Starter function, make arrangements IMMEDIATELY for starter replacement, as it will soon NOT start at all no matter how many times you hit it.

George

[austinse90]

Originally Posted by MartinWake

can you pull some codes from it?

The codes that show up are P38A4, P38B4, P0113, P29D0, and P387C
Also the terminals aren't corroded at all, they look like they are in great shape. As well as the battery itself.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by austinse90

The codes that show up are P38A4, P38B4, P0113, P29D0, and P387C. Also the terminals aren't corroded at all, they look like they are in great shape. As well as the battery itself.

Do you have a multimeter? What is the Battery Voltage as measured at the Jumpstart Terminals under the hood? Did you try the Jumper Cable Supplemental Ground & Click Tests described in earlier Reply? Results?

CODE Definitions per BMW Fault Code Lookup:

N55 | P150A | 38A4 | BSD, message; intelligent battery sensor (IBS): Missing | MEVD176K
N55 | 38B4 | BSD, message; intelligent battery sensor (IBS): Missing | mevd176k
N55 | P160A | 387C | Power management: Battery, total discharge | MEVD176K
N55 | P0113 | 29D0 | Intake air temperature sensor, electrical: Short circuit to B+ | MEVD176K

Based upon those codes, I would check to make sure the BSD connector above the Negative Battery Terminal is properly connected. I would then test Battery Voltage with multimeter, at the Jumpstart Terminals.

If the Battery Voltage is less than 12.0 V, I would disconnect the negative terminal from the battery and put a charger on it, at 6 to 10 Amps.

I would test the circuit for the Intake Air Temp Sensor, which appears to be shorted, possibly resulting in battery drain? Here is that circuit, and the Installation Location for Sensor B6583:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...upply/CkLmMkPM
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ensor/BwquLUuT

Please let us know what you find,
George

[austinse90]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Do you have a multimeter? What is the Battery Voltage as measured at the Jumpstart Terminals under the hood? Did you try the Jumper Cable Supplemental Ground & Click Tests described in earlier Reply? Results?

CODE Definitions per BMW Fault Code Lookup:

N55 | P150A | 38A4 | BSD, message; intelligent battery sensor (IBS): Missing | MEVD176K
N55 | 38B4 | BSD, message; intelligent battery sensor (IBS): Missing | mevd176k
N55 | P160A | 387C | Power management: Battery, total discharge | MEVD176K
N55 | P0113 | 29D0 | Intake air temperature sensor, electrical: Short circuit to B+ | MEVD176K

Based upon those codes, I would check to make sure the BSD connector above the Negative Battery Terminal is properly connected. I would then test Battery Voltage with multimeter, at the Jumpstart Terminals.

If the Battery Voltage is less than 12.0 V, I would disconnect the negative terminal from the battery and put a charger on it, at 6 to 10 Amps.

I would test the circuit for the Intake Air Temp Sensor, which appears to be shorted, possibly resulting in battery drain? Here is that circuit, and the Installation Location for Sensor B6583:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...upply/CkLmMkPM
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ensor/BwquLUuT

Please let us know what you find,
George

Thanks for the reply George!
I used a multimeter to find the voltage averaging around 12.76V, the IAT sensor is connected and it's not messed up, even if the IAT sensor was shorted the car would still crank. My 335i does not crank at all. It turns straight to accessories mode and when I let off the break it starts chiming.

[jt335i]

Look as if the IBS is bad. Heard this can cause starting issues so try replacing that first.

[austinse90]

Originally Posted by jt335i

Look as if the IBS is bad. Heard this can cause starting issues so try replacing that first.

If the IBS cable was bad I heard simply unplugging it would bypass the start up issue, and I've done that.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by austinse90

Thanks for the reply George!
I used a multimeter to find the voltage averaging around 12.76V, the IAT sensor is connected and it's not messed up, even if the IAT sensor was shorted the car would still crank. My 335i does not crank at all. It turns straight to accessories mode and when I let off the break it starts chiming.

We're NOT communicating here. I asked about battery voltage and tracing Intake Air Temp Sensor short (and mileage at which those codes were set) to see if you have a short somewhere that was running battery down, preventing cranking. If battery Voltage is > 12.7V, then THAT is NOT preventing cranking, and you DID answer earlier that the battery terminals were tight & clean.

So we're back to the Three things I suggested doing in Post #3 above in this thread, and you never indicated (1) if you tried connecting a jumper cable as supplemental GROUND cable to engine, (2) if you listened for click at Starter Solenoid (Right Fender/Wing), or (3) if you tried tapping on solenoid to see if that would get starter to engage.

At this point, it appears to be a faulty starter, unless there are codes you have missed, but I would do those 3 tests to try to confirm that SWAG.

George

[Liam1106]

Inspect your ground strap. I have the same make and model, was having some issues with slow crank. Replaced my battery as I was instructed from a pre purchase inspection and the issue went away for a while.

The slow cranks started coming back. One day I was driving around, I stopped at the store and turned the car off. Got back in 5 minutes later and the car refused to start. Tried to jump it from the front to no avail and had to get it towed home.

I looked up all the symptoms and figured it was a bad starter. I had power to all electronics, battery terminals in the front sparked, tested my battery with a voltmeter and it read ok etc. So I replaced the starter, which I found was corroded on the bottom part that was not visible until removal. I thought I'd be out of the woods by then, and that may have been part of the issue, but the car still would not start. When I was down in the engine bay though I got a chance to look at my ground strap on the drivers side and it was corroded to hell. It was green. It took some work to replace, but nothing compared to the starter. It fell apart in my hands when I took it out. I just bought a $10 insulated replacement from Autozone. Right after the ground strap replacement my car starts lightning fast now. Not sure if this is a solution but its worth a shot taking a look at the integrity of your ground strap. Hope you work things out, I know it can be a PITA trying to figure out whats going on and not being able to get the car to turn over, its like a witch hunt sometimes

[austinse90]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

We're NOT communicating here. I asked about battery voltage and tracing Intake Air Temp Sensor short (and mileage at which those codes were set) to see if you have a short somewhere that was running battery down, preventing cranking. If battery Voltage is > 12.7V, then THAT is NOT preventing cranking, and you DID answer earlier that the battery terminals were tight & clean.

So we're back to the Three things I suggested doing in Post #3 above in this thread, and you never indicated (1) if you tried connecting a jumper cable as supplemental GROUND cable to engine, (2) if you listened for click at Starter Solenoid (Right Fender/Wing), or (3) if you tried tapping on solenoid to see if that would get starter to engage.

At this point, it appears to be a faulty starter, unless there are codes you have missed, but I would do those 3 tests to try to confirm that SWAG.

George

Sorry for misunderstanding, the intake code is just there because I unplugged my air intake sensor to get to my starter and the code wasn't cleared after. But, yes I have tried jumpstarting my car with the jumper cables at the ground cable to the engine, the car did not want to start, even when I got a new battery. Then I listened for the starter, I would put the key in then depress the break and push the start button, I would hear the accessories whirring then a click (like you're dropping something into a cup) I'm sure that's the solenoid clicking. I have tried to tap on the starter which is behind the intake manifold and seems like I'm just SOL.

[austinse90]

Originally Posted by Liam1106

Inspect your ground strap. I have the same make and model, was having some issues with slow crank. Replaced my battery as I was instructed from a pre purchase inspection and the issue went away for a while.

The slow cranks started coming back. One day I was driving around, I stopped at the store and turned the car off. Got back in 5 minutes later and the car refused to start. Tried to jump it from the front to no avail and had to get it towed home.

I looked up all the symptoms and figured it was a bad starter. I had power to all electronics, battery terminals in the front sparked, tested my battery with a voltmeter and it read ok etc. So I replaced the starter, which I found was corroded on the bottom part that was not visible until removal. I thought I'd be out of the woods by then, and that may have been part of the issue, but the car still would not start. When I was down in the engine bay though I got a chance to look at my ground strap on the drivers side and it was corroded to hell. It was green. It took some work to replace, but nothing compared to the starter. It fell apart in my hands when I took it out. I just bought a $10 insulated replacement from Autozone. Right after the ground strap replacement my car starts lightning fast now. Not sure if this is a solution but its worth a shot taking a look at the integrity of your ground strap. Hope you work things out, I know it can be a PITA trying to figure out whats going on and not being able to get the car to turn over, its like a witch hunt sometimes

I've taken a look at my ground cable and it seems to be just fine. No corrosion, and it doesn't look shredded up either.

[austinse90]

Also! If anyone is still here to lend some tips.. I replaced the battery with a new battery. Yes, the correct size and crank. And I would put the car into accessories mode and it would immediately show "Battery charge level low!" Then I would click on the vehicle status and it would show "All systems OK masterdummytext"

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by austinse90

... I replaced the battery with a new battery. Yes, the correct size and crank. And I would put the car into accessories mode and it would immediately show "Battery charge level low!" Then I would click on the vehicle status and it would show "All systems OK masterdummytext"

You stated in Post #8 that you had disconnected the IBS. Which wire did you disconnect -- the B+ Battery voltage wire from the Power Distribution Panel to the IBS, or the BSD cable connection to the Chassis Connector above the Negative battery terminal? If not sure what that means, let me know and I will provide circuit diagram, etc. (TIS). If either of those wires is disconnected, that prevents the DME from getting proper SOC (State of Charge) information on your battery via the BSD cable, and could cause the Warning Light you describe.

As for the Old battery you replaced, did you note (1) the TYPE (AGM vs. FLA [Flooded Lead Acid] or conventional Old-style) and (2) the Amp-hour (Ah) rating? It would NOT affect cranking the starter directly, but it could affect how the new battery is charged (if you ever get the engine to run ;-) if you replaced with different Type, or Ah rating. IF you did, you need to change settings or "code" the CAS for the new Battery Type/Ah.

BTW, no one has suggested this yet: Use a multimeter to test Voltage at the Jumpstart Terminals. That's a different cable and "Transfer Point" from the DME Voltage readout at the OBD II Socket or "Hidden Menu 9.00", or even the lighter socket. Voltage at the Jumpstart Terminals is what counts where Starter engagement is concerned. It is POSSIBLE that the Transfer Point (in front of Battery) is corroded and Voltage to Starter (as measured under hood at Jumpstart Terminals) is less than Battery Voltage. That cable to the Jumpstart Terminal and Starter is a different Battery Power Supply Cable from the smaller ones going to (1) the DME, and (2) the Junction Box.

So (1) measure the Voltage at the Jumpstart terminals BEFORE you try to engage the Starter, then (2) try to engage Starter and have someone listen to determine where the click/clunk comes from (Starter or elsewhere), and THEN (3) Immediately measure battery voltage at Jumpstart Terminals again. That LAST step is a "poor-man's Load Test" of the battery. If the battery (yes I realize it's new ;-) has an internal fault or "bad cell", you would get 12.x V in (1) & 10.x V in (2).

Everything so far points to bad Starter, but need to rule everything else OUT before spending time/money.

George

[theslowe90]

I have the same year and model and my car has the same problem. Every time I start the car when the engine is hot, the car cranks slowly around 5 to 6 times. It has been happening to me since I bought the car in February but never really got the chance to check out what the real problem was. I feel like it is the starter's problem which I later did some research and learned that starters usually go out around 80k on 335i's and my car is around that point. How many miles does yours have?

[theslowe90]

Also i know it's not the battery because the problem continued after the battery was replaced.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by austinse90

The codes that show up are P38A4, P38B4, P0113, P29D0, and P387C
Also the terminals aren't corroded at all, they look like they are in great shape. As well as the battery itself.

the battery LOOKS like its in great shape hahahaha man you are funny. Does the car from outside look like its in great shape too ? If so then no reason why it should nt start.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Pladi

...Does the car from outside look like its in great shape too ? If so then no reason why it should nt start.

You mean "Image" is NOT EVERYTHING?!? OMG, somebody TRY to tell the "Narcissist-in-Chiefly"

[nsjames]

the starter has probably failed.

they do so without warning, but it sure seems like yours gave you heads up with the slow cranking and the like.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

You mean "Image" is NOT EVERYTHING?!? OMG, somebody TRY to tell the "Narcissist-in-Chiefly"

how can someone reach to a conclusion that the battery is OK by looking at it is beyond me, he clearly states in the first post that he does not want to do any testing. This is what the technology has done to humanity.

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by Pladi

how can someone reach to a conclusion that the battery is OK by looking at it is beyond me, he clearly states in the first post that he does not want to do any testing. This is what the technology has done to humanity.

if OP doesn't want to spend money, he should have setup an ista installation and pulled real codes and not generic OBD codes.

OP,
the car will tell you if the starter has failed.

for real. There's a code for it.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by nsjames

... he should have setup an ista installation and pulled real codes and not generic OBD codes. OP, the car will tell you if the starter has failed. for real. There's a code for it.

You mean "2F58"? Bentley Definition:

P0512 | 2F58 Starter Request Circuit

Looks like P-code (generic OBD code) P0512 = BMW FC 2F58

But WHAT does that code mean? Is that measuring anything other than Voltage from CAS to Starter Solenoid (or absence thereof :-)? It MAY NOT mean ANYTHING related to the Starter Circuit on N55 engine DME (OP has N55) according to BMW Fault Code Lookup:

2F58 | DME: Automatic starting, activation | msd80
2F58 | Oil-pressure control valve, activation | mv1722

I agree that INPA and ISTA are the best diagnostic tools, but I'm NOT sure that either provides a Fault Code (BMW or P-code ;-) for a failed Starter Solenoid or Starter Motor brushes. INPA has several digital screens which indicate WHEN Starter Circuit (Terminal 50) is "Active"/ Voltage supplied, or CAS is sending Start Signal to Starter, but AFAIK, those do NOT give any feedback on Starter Function, just Voltage to Starter Solenoid.

ANYONE who has actually SEEN a fault code for anything other than CAS Start Signal to Starter Solenoid, or knows of any INPA/ISTA Status Screen or test for that, please provide details.

Thanks,
George