[Xens]

Originally Posted by ZenDriver

Having said all that, Japanese cars designed for the Japanese market are fugly.

Funny you should mention, I was just watching Topgear with THIS in it.

[abc]

aw thats cute. that's perfect for their streets and population density, and for fuel economy.

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by maq

More info for those who are interested.

The initial research phase of the E90 project started in the late 90's, at which time a Rover-friendly platform was still on the table. BMW dumped Rover in 2000, and started the E80 1-series project, which also was assigned to the Munich studio. Initial design work on the 2 projects ran at the same time at first, but the E90 was stopped for a while so they could focus on the E80. The E90 was revived in late 2001, an in-house competition took place: 15 designers participated, 6 of the proposals were made into clay models, and eventually Nagashima's proposal was selected to be further developed for production. Then a team was formed to finalize everything: senior design manager Boyke Boyer as exterior design director and Mike Ninic as interior design director. Both of them who have been with BMW for over 2 decades reported to Chris Bangle. The exterior was ready to be signed off in late 2002, prototypes were built and sent to testing in 2003.

Some more photos:
1: Joji Nagashima
2: Nagashima directing modeller
3: Nagashima on drawing board
4: Nagashima working on clay model
5: Boyke Boyer (left 3)

What I want to know is who changed the original rear lights and why

[mikepinkerton]

So how does one actually get to be a car designer? I'm sure it takes a background in graphics design, but there are so many issues involved in designing a car (existing chassis, aerodynamics, interior room, etc) that you almost have to be an engineer. Also, i don't recall "car designer" as a major

How do you learn how to design a car?
-Mike

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by mikepinkerton

So how does one actually get to be a car designer? I'm sure it takes a background in graphics design, but there are so many issues involved in designing a car (existing chassis, aerodynamics, interior room, etc) that you almost have to be an engineer. Also, i don't recall "car designer" as a major

How do you learn how to design a car?
-Mike

You study automotive design and work for many many years in a design firm

Or you study engineering and work with the designers

[carl_d]

Originally Posted by mikepinkerton

So how does one actually get to be a car designer? I'm sure it takes a background in graphics design, but there are so many issues involved in designing a car (existing chassis, aerodynamics, interior room, etc) that you almost have to be an engineer. Also, i don't recall "car designer" as a major

How do you learn how to design a car?
-Mike

Check this out http://www.cardesignnews.com/directory/schools.html

[carl_d]

I wonder, if the "original" rear lights (shown in the clay models above) will be the used on a mid-life refresh?

What we see on todays E90's could be a simplified version for the first half of the E90's life?

There's always a mild change mid-life and I'm sure these are designed before initial production. I guess we will have to wait about four years to see.

[ZenDriver]

So how does one actually get to be a car designer? I'm sure it takes a background in graphics design, but there are so many issues involved in designing a car (existing chassis, aerodynamics, interior room, etc) that you almost have to be an engineer. Also, i don't recall "car designer" as a major

First, go to a community college and take all of the drawing and sketching classes you can for a couple of semesters and then go study 3D tools like Rhino 3D or SolidWorks (you can download and get use to them now). 75% of design is simply having the ability to communicate your ideas and schools like the ones listed below are so competetive that you need to be a proficient visual communicator before you get there.

Second, apply to the country's top design schools. The two most often mentioned ones are Rhode Island School of Design (RISD- say it rizz-D) and The Art Center College of Design. Second tier schools are Santa Clara, California College of Art, Cincinnati... I went to CCA; they will all teach you how to design but Art Center and RISD are where companies like BMW go (Bangle is an Art Center type).

Third, work your ass off. Schools like Art Center are not full of the typical limp wristed art scool **** and their industrial design and automotive design departments are easily as competetive as any hardcore law school. Designers today tend to be very smart, type-A overacheivers and there is a high eurotrash quotent.

Then kiss a lot of ass because, as great as Art Center grads are, most of them wind up designing engine covers on Nissan pickup trucks. If you are VERY good, you will get to BMW and spend a decade or so designing door handles.

Along the way though, industrial/automotive designers pick up a lot about engineering. Not so much in implimentation and raw math and such, but they generally try to learn what is possible and what isn't. If I ever come off on here sounding like a know it all about engineering, I am not- I just understand the basics of how each process works enough to know what can and can't be done.

In a company like BMW, the design teams all have engineers onboard who help guide them as to what is possible and what isn't. They generally have a pretty good idea of the components they need to "package." The big problems they run into today are what can be done with sheetmetal. BMW has pushed metal stamping technology way ahed of everyone else and there is a lot of back and forth with sheet metal engineers these days.

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by carl_d

I wonder, if the "original" rear lights (shown in the clay models above) will be the used on a mid-life refresh?

What we see on todays E90's could be a simplified version for the first half of the E90's life?

There's always a mild change mid-life and I'm sure these are designed before initial production. I guess we will have to wait about four years to see.

I have wondered that myself. The cars always look slightly more complete after their midlife facelifts

[Nikki]

It looks like they may have changed them because they looked so similar to the new a4 tailights.

[carl_d]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

I have wondered that myself. The cars always look slightly more complete after their midlife facelifts

I totally agree.

I also think the M-Sport I exterior is done up front. I think a M-Sport II design is created after the M3 design is completed. The M3 design is then "watered down" to create an M-Sport II.

I'm sure we will see an M-Sport II in about fours-years-in (2008-9) just as we did on the E46. When I ordered my M-Sport the dealers’ system listed the M-Sport as M-Sport I. Why distinguish it with an “I”? This suggests that an M-Sport II is expected at a later stage?

Also check-out the configurator at www.bmw.co.uk and the detail they provide. See the screen capture below.

[maq]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

What I want to know is who changed the original rear lights and why

Apparently, someone high up pointed out that the bottom of the taillights should be flat. A curved design isn't BMW enough.

[db17k]

Originally Posted by ksfrogman

This is so ironic. BMW evokes the idea of German Engineering, yet Mr. Nagashima was born in Japan and educated in the U.S.A.

I wonder who is actually responsible for the e60 headlight "eyebrows" and the shape of the e90 headlights. In cartoon form, they could easily transform into Anime characters.

I've always thought this same thing!, the E60 eyebrow looks like an ancient painting of a japanese samurai's eyebrows, how they are over emphasized. heh i always think of a disciplined samurai aproaching for a kill when an E60 passes me at night.

[maq]

As for design schools, there's some good info in ZenDriver's post. But RISD doesn't have an auto design program there, although it's a really good design school in general just like Institute of Design (aka I-D, the new Bauhaus) in Chicago and Pratt in NYC.

Art Center College of Design in Pasadena, CA has the leading transportation design program in North America, while Royal College of Art in London being the #1 in Europe. There are lots of other areas that you can study in transportation design, not just car design.

Going to a reputable school is definitely the first step. One other thing that might get you somewhere is to be active in school. You have to let a company notice you, not the other way around. There will be lots of auto maker sponsored events/competitions, participating in these would definitely give you a better chance, usually the winning prize is a job at that company.

Before becoming a real car designer, a lot of grads would start as modellers. Also, there's a new MA program called design management. It's the new hot thing in design. It will get you a manager position without having to work on drawing boards for 5, 10 or even 20 years. But you do need a few years of work experience, and there are only less than 15 schools worldwide that offer this program. Once you get in, you are looking at $20k a year x2 minimum.

Here's a list of schools that offer a transportation/automotive design program.

-USA

Academy of Art University San Francisco

Art Center College of Design Pasadena

University of Cincinnati - School of Design Cincinnati

Cleveland Institute of Art Ohio

College for Creative Studies Detroit

Pratt Institute New York


-Europe

Creapole ESDI France

Strate College France

Fachhochschule Pforzheim Germany
- Transportation Design Undergraduate course
- Transportation Design Masters course

Istituto d'Arte Applicata e Design Italy

Instituto Europeo di Design Italy

Scuola Politecnica di Design Milan, Italy

Elisava School of Design Spain

Umeå Institute of Design Sweden

Royal College of Art UK

Coventry School of Art and Design UK

University of Northumbria UK
- Transportation Design

School of Design Technology - Univ. of Huddersfield UK


-Asia/Pacific

Monash University Australia

Hongik University Korea

Tokyo Communication Arts - Car Design Japan

[poldim]

Originally Posted by abc

http://www.bmwgroup.com/e/0_0_www_bm...p_Concrete.pdf

What is this from?

[E90-4life]

Originally Posted by maq

As for design schools, there's some good info in ZenDriver's post. But RISD doesn't have an auto design program there, although it's a really good design school in general just like Institute of Design (aka I-D, the new Bauhaus) in Chicago and Pratt in NYC.

Art Center College of Design in Pasadena, CA has the leading transportation design program in North America, while Royal College of Art in London being the #1 in Europe. There are lots of other areas that you can study in transportation design, not just car design.

Going to a reputable school is definitely the first step. One other thing that might get you somewhere is to be active in school. You have to let a company notice you, not the other way around. There will be lots of auto maker sponsored events/competitions, participating in these would definitely give you a better chance, usually the winning prize is a job at that company.

Before becoming a real car designer, a lot of grads would start as modellers. Also, there's a new MA program called design management. It's the new hot thing in design. It will get you a manager position without having to work on drawing boards for 5, 10 or even 20 years. But you do need a few years of work experience, and there are only less than 15 schools worldwide that offer this program. Once you get in, you are looking at $20k a year x2 minimum.

Here's a list of schools that offer a transportation/automotive design program.

-USA

Academy of Art University San Francisco

Art Center College of Design Pasadena

University of Cincinnati - School of Design Cincinnati

Cleveland Institute of Art Ohio

College for Creative Studies Detroit

Pratt Institute New York


-Europe

Creapole ESDI France

Strate College France

Fachhochschule Pforzheim Germany
- Transportation Design Undergraduate course
- Transportation Design Masters course

Istituto d'Arte Applicata e Design Italy

Instituto Europeo di Design Italy

Scuola Politecnica di Design Milan, Italy

Elisava School of Design Spain

Umeå Institute of Design Sweden

Royal College of Art UK

Coventry School of Art and Design UK

University of Northumbria UK
- Transportation Design

School of Design Technology - Univ. of Huddersfield UK


-Asia/Pacific

Monash University Australia

Hongik University Korea

Tokyo Communication Arts - Car Design Japan

How do you know all of this? I use to take classes at Art Center, and will be going back once I'm done w/ school, however, not for the same reason as before, transportation design, I will be going for graphic design. It's a great school, the classrooms are awesome, campus is beautiful, the instructors are very disciplined individuals and give good instruction. I did want to design for BMW, and I did a job shadow @ DesignWorks USA, Newbury Park, really opened my eyes up to a lot of different things as far as design and what not, though some of the designers I met weren't the most constructive, I learned a lot(had the oppurtunity to meet Anders Warming, penned the Z4). So much so that I discovered that T.D. isn't for me... I factored in the pay among many other things and concluded w/ this, "Would I rather be designing these cars for the next 'x' amount of years, or would I rather be driving them???" - A no brainer.

[poldim]

Anyone have more clay pics?

[maq]

Originally Posted by E90-4life

How do you know all of this? ...

Well, I'm kind of in the industry. My experience is similar to yours in a way: I went through design school only to realise design isn't for me. Becoming a designer was once my goal, but along the way I have discovered so many things that I didn't know about design and myself that I changed my mind. I loved the idea of pure, art-creating-like design. But in reality, pure design only exists on paper. Design is an industry, and there are 3 kinds of people involved in it: the designers, the businessmen and the people in between them. Best designers produce emotional works, best businessmen make rational decisions - perfect scenario for chaotic results. It's up to the "middle men" what would the final product turn out to be. Their job is to communicate, organize and keep everything well balanced. And that's what I've decided to do.

[E90-4life]

Originally Posted by maq

Well, I'm kind of in the industry. My experience is similar to yours in a way: I went through design school only to realise design isn't for me. Becoming a designer was once my goal, but along the way I have discovered so many things that I didn't know about design and myself that I changed my mind. I loved the idea of pure, art-creating-like design. But in reality, pure design only exists on paper. Design is an industry, and there are 3 kinds of people involved in it: the designers, the businessmen and the people in between them. Best designers produce emotional works, best businessmen make rational decisions - perfect scenario for chaotic results. It's up to the "middle men" what would the final product turn out to be. Their job is to communicate, organize and keep everything well balanced. And that's what I've decided to do.

What's your title? or profession I should say? Poorly constructed reply, but I'm very wiped at the moment.

[ksfrogman]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

What I want to know is who changed the original rear lights and why

If the e90 tail lights shown here would have gone into production, not only what they have looked like the Audi A4 lights, but the Honda Civic Hybrid lights as well (see photos)

[ksfrogman]

If you look at the 1997 e36 and the Z3, you can appreciate that the current e90 tail lights resemble them in an evolutionary way.

[BMW786]

This Joji guy is a genius!! I loved the E90 taillights ever since I first saw them - the trapezoidal shape is very sharp and comes together nicely, unlike the 5-series taillights which are all over the place. The three horizontal bands that light up give it a unique personality apart from any other car.