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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Do I really need a LSD?



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      07-20-2018, 10:41 AM   #45
srbarnes4ever
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So what do you think will happen if you car is LSD equipped when you drive it around wet corner or in winter with rest of the viriables the same including your current driving skill level?
Feuer, I expect it to do the exact opposite, and send the torque to the wheel with the most traction, not the wheel with the least. What am I missing here?
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      07-20-2018, 10:49 AM   #46
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Yes, might be right, but open diff is easier and from the same reason safer to drive regardless of traction control on or off. If one has issues with one tire spin in wet corner they will be 180* and going backwards toward oncoming traffic and no, engine torque won't be the reason or poor tire choice, it will be driver skill level, and what I have learn driving hard and tracking a car with open diff is less demanding than LSD equipped car. I agree, benefits are there, but if you can't (you don't know how to) utilize them is absolutely useless and pointless to have LSD. I work on cars and installed mine myself. It cost me about $1300 all in and honestly have small regret as I realized that: #1 my driving skill isn't there to explore the limits of LSD on track in primarily daily driver car and #2 don't notice any difference on the street since I go to track to drive aggressively.
Most of what you said is counter to everything I've read on LSD vs non.....but I understand we all have different experiences. Appreciate the feedback.
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      07-20-2018, 11:08 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srbarnes4ever View Post
Feuer, I expect it to do the exact opposite, and send the torque to the wheel with the most traction, not the wheel with the least. What am I missing here?
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Originally Posted by srbarnes4ever View Post
Most of what you said is counter to everything I've read on LSD vs non.....but I understand we all have different experiences. Appreciate the feedback.
Respectfully, most of what is written on here is about LSD equipped cars that don't see any track time at all and is based on somewhat placebo effect. Like I said, benefits are there but driver need to be able to exploit them. Most of us, realistically don't know how to. If one think LSD will turn you into Chris Harris and you will be able to drive the car sideways like him, that LSD will magically get you unstuck in snow/ice, that LSD will get the car to launch better and faster will be mistaken in my opinion. If being able to do 90' power slides from a gig and to do better donuts brings you joy enough to make LSD worth it then do it. My experience is just different and I drive this car literal every day and have covered many snowy days, track days, even snowy track days too. The way I drive in the city I don't need LSD. The way I can drive the car on track LSD doesn't make me go any faster. I'm just being honest.
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      07-20-2018, 02:23 PM   #48
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So is amazing when accelerating from a stop into a 90 degree corner?
Heck ya...wait do drive a 328?
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      07-20-2018, 03:13 PM   #49
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Heck ya...wait do drive a 328?
Excellent, and no, I don't drive 328i and I don't see how would that make difference.
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      07-20-2018, 06:39 PM   #50
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so much misinformation with this guy it is un-real. (feuer) = bad advice. ( i don't think this guy drives anything but a lada)

Does LSD increase grip and performance in a straight line (feuer) - says no. Explain?
You have two tires gripping vs. the peg leg of one - time to catch grip will be reduced by 50%.

DD driving, in every scenario you can think of including snow LSD out performs open diff.
Again (feuer) - is lost.

Track again in every corner uneven road surface LSD will be better and more stable and more predictable, open diff nope (feuer) - again he is lost.

In conclusion open diff is only there because your average Jane will not understand why possible oversteer is happening. Open diff is a safety net. Every real car come with and LSD, like all M models and there is a reason why.
Period, game over, feuer - do not even bother to do a come back because I would rather listen to my wood floors. Geezzz, so much mis information in this thread.

And FYI, yes my 335 had and LSD, so did My IS300, and yes I have tracked the car before and after LSD. And yup if you prefer an open diff - well then that says it all.
#close thread.

Edit - to the OP - yes installing and LSD will make the car more predictable, faster, and sportier. I loved that mod.
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      07-20-2018, 07:09 PM   #51
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Edit - to the OP - yes installing and LSD will make the car more predictable, faster, and sportier. I loved that mod.
But without it the car is still fun?
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      07-20-2018, 08:08 PM   #52
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by marcvtec View Post
Edit - to the OP - yes installing and LSD will make the car more predictable, faster, and sportier. I loved that mod.
But without it the car is still fun?
Yes, I think you want a 335is. That car will be a lot of fun with or without an LSD. If you get one with the DCT trans, then it has a welded Diff. This means, if you really want an LSD, your best bet is to buy a complete pumpkin and install it.

If you are not an experienced DIYer, I'd really steer you clear from sending the Diff out to have the weld taken off and then installing the LSD. Bottom line, this will be a $2300.00 part plus install. If you plan on just installing the pumpkin, You will need a special 50mm wrench, a transmission jack and a really good torque wrench.

I think you said that you live in Canada. To me that means snow. From what I have read, an LSD is better in snow.

It is true that all M cars come with an LSD. Does everyone that owns an M really use the LSD to its fullest potential? Probably not, unless they track the car and are experienced at the track.

I can think of a lot of bolt on, after mkt parts that I would add to a 335is before I did an LSD, but that's just me.

In my opinion, I'd get a good/ great set of Michelin or Blizzak WS80's, on a separate set of rims, for the winter. I'd also not go wider than 235. 225 if you can.
If after the winter, you still feel you want an LSD, go for it.

Even if you plan on tracking the car, track it for a season with the open Differential and then make a decision from there.
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      07-20-2018, 08:24 PM   #53
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But without it the car is still fun?
Yes it is, try it for a while and see for yourself.
An LSD just added more fun, and if snow yes + 5. big difference getting up that hill others could not.
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      07-21-2018, 12:05 AM   #54
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Yes it is, try it for a while and see for yourself.
An LSD just added more fun, and if snow yes + 5. big difference getting up that hill others could not.
Probably even in a Lada I can do circles around you in your car You need to re read the title of this thread, post #1 and #7 and while your are reading educate yourself on the Mclaren P1 open diff. Don't worry, I won't give you the satisfaction of replying to your posts. As you said I'm lost.
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      07-21-2018, 01:36 AM   #55
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Thanks guys. It's as mweisdorfer about M cars... M cars are made for track + DD so as he said prob not everyone uses LSD full potential on roard when you think about it.
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      07-21-2018, 09:03 AM   #56
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Probably even in a Lada I can do circles around you in your car You need to re read the title of this thread, post #1 and #7 and while your are reading educate yourself on the Mclaren P1 open diff. Don't worry, I won't give you the satisfaction of replying to your posts. As you said I'm lost.
No one ca....
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      07-21-2018, 10:00 AM   #57
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Probably even in a Lada I can do circles around you in your car You need to re read the title of this thread, post #1 and #7 and while your are reading educate yourself on the Mclaren P1 open diff. Don't worry, I won't give you the satisfaction of replying to your posts. As you said I'm lost.
Lol, you are comparing a Mclaren to a 335.
Yes Mclaren does have an open diff, but guess what it also has 1million dollars worth of computers to correct for that. i.e.:

This could be a problem in a high-speed turn, where the outside wheel has the brunt of the load due to shifting centrifugal forces acting upon it. That tire is loaded up and ready for more power, but the inside wheel is keeping that from happening because if it gets more of that 50 percent split it's going to lead to wheelspin.

To counter this, McLaren employs a brake vectoring system. The engine sends all of the power that the driver is requesting and uses the brakes of the inside wheel to hold that roller back from spinning. This way the outside wheel takes on as much power as it can handle, which still falls under the 50/50 torque split.

anyway to each there own.
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      07-22-2018, 12:01 AM   #58
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I test drove the car and I liked it was to much fun even without LSD so I bought it. Was able to get it for 26 000k CAD$ before tax
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      07-22-2018, 05:36 AM   #59
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Quote:
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.

To counter this, McLaren employs a brake vectoring system. The engine sends all of the power that the driver is requesting and uses the brakes of the inside wheel to hold that roller back from spinning. This way the outside wheel takes on as much power as it can handle, which still falls under the 50/50 torque split.

anyway to each there own.
And what do you think the DSC system on the E90 does? No, it's probably not as quick reacting as a McLarens but the function is the same.

I don't know why you bother reading these forums anymore other than just to be a contrarian dick. You frequently only read one or two posts out of context, and then reply like you know everything, despite demonstrating the opposite. The fact that you have "vtec" in your name says all anyone needs to know about you, and the fact that you frequently attack Feuer's posts shows you're just insecure he's contributed far more to a community than you ever have.
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      07-22-2018, 08:53 AM   #60
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With all due respect feur seems quite knowledgeable, but in my 100% street car the LSD is night and day difference.

I have a M3 visco lok LSD and I cant drift for the life of me but the grip exiting corners, going WOT and the way the car feels going through corners is soooo much better!
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      07-22-2018, 09:23 AM   #61
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I have a M3 visco lok LSD and I cant drift for the life of me but the grip exiting corners, going WOT and the way the car feels going through corners is soooo much better!
I agree night and day difference. The need for an LSD increased with WTQ. I did the LSD first for safety as my car would go sideways almost instantly if the road was slightly uneven with DSC off. With DSC on the car would tail wag like crazy and pull timing/throttle closures + e-diff braking as the traction control tried hopelessly to keep the rear wheel speeds the same. #1 good thing now is when the tires spin the car goes straight because the LSD keeps the wheel speeds the same mechanically.
Yes in perfect road conditions with even traction in a straight line an LSD is not required.
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      07-22-2018, 10:28 AM   #62
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And what do you think the DSC system on the E90 does? No, it's probably not as quick reacting as a McLarens but the function is the same.

I don't know why you bother reading these forums anymore other than just to be a contrarian dick. You frequently only read one or two posts out of context, and then reply like you know everything, despite demonstrating the opposite. The fact that you have "vtec" in your name says all anyone needs to know about you, and the fact that you frequently attack Feuer's posts shows you're just insecure he's contributed far more to a community than you ever have.
Simply put he was comparing an P1 to a 335.
But anyway who cares. I explained the difference, is that not what a forum is.
Thank you for the kind words. And don't let my screen name fool you too much.
Lsd > no lsd.
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      07-22-2018, 12:21 PM   #63
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I guess neither 335i nor P1 are "real cars" according to the LSD expert opinion in post #50 lol Title of this thread clearly says "Do I really need a LSD" Ignore my opinion, my knowledge, my experience...and consider why all engineers, scientists and researchers decided to put open diff in above cars? Because You don't really need it.
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      07-22-2018, 06:42 PM   #64
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I guess neither 335i nor P1 are "real cars" according to the LSD expert opinion in post #50 lol Title of this thread clearly says "Do I really need a LSD" Ignore my opinion, my knowledge, my experience...and consider why all engineers, scientists and researchers decided to put open diff in above cars? Because You don't really need it.
As marcvtec had pointed out, the big mac has start of the art electronic tech managing traction thus its literally 1000x times better then an open diff in our cars with our 15 year old tech ediff.

At the end of the day from my perspective you both have valid points, technically an LSD is not required if there's a adequate DSC system, which unfortunately is not the case in our E9X vehicles.
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      07-22-2018, 08:31 PM   #65
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I test drove the car and I liked it was to much fun even without LSD so I bought it. Was able to get it for 26 000k CAD$ before tax
Congrats, thats all that matters !
Have fun.
Edit: and when your in snow trying to get up a hill in Quebec, Canada. remember what your friend Marc, suggested .
And the reason I know this is cause I've had my 335 for 12 years. And driving the first few seasons even with winter tires was a pain in the arse.
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      07-23-2018, 12:44 PM   #66
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Congrats, thats all that matters !
Have fun.
Edit: and when your in snow trying to get up a hill in Quebec, Canada. remember what your friend Marc, suggested .
And the reason I know this is cause I've had my 335 for 12 years. And driving the first few seasons even with winter tires was a pain in the arse.
Ehhh we will see haha. I'm a firm believer that good winter tires and driving slowly and softly is all you need.

Anyways I will most likely only drive the car after the streets are plowed.
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